He wants a sexual relationship, I want a social friendship.

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    Dec 14, 2011 2:04 PM GMT
    Long story short: I posted on CL "looking for a cuddle buddy." He replies, we email, we talk, we meet, we click, we like. Same age and lots of similarities but lots of differences. Enough to make it interesting yet still be comfortable.

    Non-date #1: meet, walk, talk, major kiss/makeout session
    Non-date #2: meet, hike, talk, major kiss/makeout session
    Non-date #3&4: fast food, his place, major HOT cuddle/foreplay naked in bed
    Non-date #5&6: nice dinner out, his place, major PASSIONATE foreplay/assplay naked in bed

    Trouble is, I am the 57yo closeted virgin, he is the 55yo from SFO who's been out since he was 15. His last relationship was sexless and he wants it bad, my whole life has been sexless and I'm used to it. I am vanilla in person but being naked turns me on big time and I tend to say (and do) things I wouldn't normally. He wants to fuck me for Christmas, and last night I said Yes.

    I grew up with AIDS and my own brother died at 28yo way back at the beginning of the plague. He grew up with AIDS and has lost friends too. We are both negative, clean, and sober. All STDs scare me, especially AIDS.

    I think we're both lonely, because of the economy/job loss/cross-country moves/etc. and need someone in our lives right now . I'm happy just to be friends, 'cause he's a nice guy and I like him as a friend. He wants more than just a friend, much more. I can't give it to him.

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    Dec 14, 2011 3:11 PM GMT
    Sounds like you two want different things... Move on?
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    Dec 14, 2011 3:23 PM GMT
    Why not see where it goes without demands or labels? Enjoy each other's company and bodies and play safe.
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    Dec 14, 2011 3:25 PM GMT
    Don't be passive aggressive about it, but TELL HIM you are not looking for a serious relationship, with him or ANYONE else, and yet, seemingly contradictory, that you do like him and wish to spend time with him in a largely platonic fashion.

    Once stated, he can react as he sees fit. He may stay, he may go.
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    Dec 14, 2011 3:57 PM GMT
    Let's see if we have all the details......

    You are a 57 y.o. closeted virgin whose whole life has been sexless but deep down you are a nudist. (*from your multiple references to it in your profile)
    You are terrified of bugs and disease but you put yourself out there and a nice guy from San Francisco responded. He is looking for a relationship, you aren't.

    There are about a hundred reasons why a pairing like this won't work, but let's concentrate on the one reason why you should try to make it work:

    You are a 57 y.o. closeted virgin whose whole life has been sexless but deep down you are a nudist. You are terrified of bugs and disease.


    Isn't it possible that spending time with someone from the most open and gay friendly city in the country might help you become more comfortable with yourself? Did you know that it is legal to walk around San Francisco naked? Maybe that would sweeten the deal for you.
    Doesn't it seem likely that a friend who survived at the epicenter of the AIDS epidemic might understand and be patient with your sexual development?

    I don't want to sound cruel but you are at midlife and you are carrying around a bit of baggage. Midlife.....got it? Not too many years left where you will be in your sexual prime or even desirable as a mate or a sexfriend. Someone comes into your life who can help you explore things in a safe, non-judgemental way and your first conclusion is .... STOP!
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    Dec 14, 2011 4:15 PM GMT
    I was never in a bed naked with a man with whom I didn't eventually have sex, even if we ostensibly started out just to cuddle, and at the same ages you guys are now. I simply don't understand how you restrained yourselves.

    Does "foreplay" mean hand jobs, or even blowjobs? (Damn autocorrect tried to make blowjobs into "blobs" icon_rolleyes.gif ) There are forms of non-anal sex you can have where the HIV and STD risks are reasonably low. And some guys (myself) aren't afraid to bottom with a poz guy wearing a condom, when we trust him enough to be careful with us. But naturally the risk assessment is up to you.

    But I do think if a guy has told you he wants sex, but can't have it with you, then you both might be better off spending quiet evenings on the sofa, not in bed naked together. That must really be tough on him, and I admire his self-control.

    He sounds like he might be a keeper, and if I were you, to avoid losing him, I'd look into safe sex you guys can have that doesn't frighten you.

    And BTW, why are all these times together "non-dates"? They sound pretty close to a date to me, so that also makes me wonder if you're unusually timid about all of this on several levels, not just the sex. I know you say you're closeted to "fly under the radar" and I don't doubt or criticize your need to do that. But guys can have genuine dates and still be subtle and not obvious to those around them.
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    Dec 14, 2011 6:05 PM GMT
    Art_Deco saidI was never in a bed naked with a man with whom I didn't eventually have sex, even if we ostensibly started out just to cuddle, and at the same ages you guys are now. I simply don't understand how you restrained yourselves.

    Does "foreplay" mean hand jobs, or even blowjobs? (Damn autocorrect tried to make blowjobs into "blobs" icon_rolleyes.gif ) There are forms of non-anal sex you can have where the HIV and STD risks are reasonably low. And some guys (myself) aren't afraid to bottom with a poz guy wearing a condom, when we trust him enough to be careful with us. But naturally the risk assessment is up to you.

    But I do think if a guy has told you he wants sex, but can't have it with you, then you both might be better off spending quiet evenings on the sofa, not in bed naked together. That must really be tough on him, and I admire his self-control.

    He sounds like he might be a keeper, and if I were you, to avoid losing him, I'd look into safe sex you guys can have that doesn't frighten you.

    And BTW, why are all these times together "non-dates"? They sound pretty close to a date to me, so that also makes me wonder if you're unusually timid about all of this on several levels, not just the sex. I know you say you're closeted to "fly under the radar" and I don't doubt or criticize your need to do that. But guys can have genuine dates and still be subtle and not obvious to those around them.

    To me it wasn't a "date" so much as just "Hey, let's hang out and do something." To me a date is when you do something special and spend some money on a guy.
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    Dec 14, 2011 6:14 PM GMT
    I think you should seek professional help on this. Not trying to be offensive, but it sounds like you've got issues you need to work through.

    All 6 of those 'non-dates" would be considered dates by almost any other member of society. The fact that you're rationalizing them as non-dates seems to imply that you are intentionally keeping this guy at a distance and not getting emotionally intimate with him.

    And the sex thing is very odd. Is it just anal penetration you're not accustomed to? Not sure there's anything wrong with that, but it's almost like you're two lesbians in a relationship. To coincide with what I said above, anal sex is another level of intimacy with another man. So it appears to me that you are disconnecting yourself from the other person for some reason.

    Not sure why you include the AiDS comment that you did, but it seems you did so just to rationalize your fear of an intimate relationship. That is why there are condoms. This is just an excuse and a scapegoat.

  • Suetonius

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    Dec 14, 2011 6:28 PM GMT
    EastCoastNAZ saidI think you should seek professional help on this. Not trying to be offensive, but it sounds like you've got issues you need to work through.
    but it's almost like you're two lesbians in a relationship.

    Agreed with EastCoast on this. You could really benefit from talking with a counselor - god knows there are tons of gay psychologists in SF, and sex/relationships is what they deal with.
    You had a bunch of non-dates that were highly sexual, (but where no orgasms occurred?). Why not experience an orgasm with another guy (whether it is anal or not). Even if you don't end up having a "relationship" with this guy? Your life's more than half over, and you have fallen into a sexual situation with an (apparently) nice guy. Unless you are determined never to have sex in the rest of your life, why pass up what has been a rare opportunity for you?
    Que sera, sera. If no relationship develops, so be it. You have at least had a good experience.
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    Dec 14, 2011 6:38 PM GMT
    NakedBudd said
    To me it wasn't a "date" so much as just "Hey, let's hang out and do something." To me a date is when you do something special and spend some money on a guy.
    Actually a 'date' is doing something (non sexual) with someone you are interested in and would like to know more about. It could even be watching a movie and eating popcorn while talking!
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    Dec 14, 2011 7:08 PM GMT
    NakedBudd saidLong story short: I posted on CL "looking for a cuddle buddy." He replies, we email, we talk, we meet, we click, we like. Same age and lots of similarities but lots of differences. Enough to make it interesting yet still be comfortable.

    Non-date #1: meet, walk, talk, major kiss/makeout session
    Non-date #2: meet, hike, talk, major kiss/makeout session
    Non-date #3&4: fast food, his place, major HOT cuddle/foreplay naked in bed
    Non-date #5&6: nice dinner out, his place, major PASSIONATE foreplay/assplay naked in bed

    Trouble is, I am the 57yo closeted virgin, he is the 55yo from SFO who's been out since he was 15. His last relationship was sexless and he wants it bad, my whole life has been sexless and I'm used to it. I am vanilla in person but being naked turns me on big time and I tend to say (and do) things I wouldn't normally. He wants to fuck me for Christmas, and last night I said Yes.

    I grew up with AIDS and my own brother died at 28yo way back at the beginning of the plague. He grew up with AIDS and has lost friends too. We are both negative, clean, and sober. All STDs scare me, especially AIDS.

    I think we're both lonely, because of the economy/job loss/cross-country moves/etc. and need someone in our lives right now . I'm happy just to be friends, 'cause he's a nice guy and I like him as a friend. He wants more than just a friend, much more. I can't give it to him.

    Comments?

    embrace.jpg

    I'm going to shoot straight from the hip and hope my response doesn't offend you. If you had not put your age in your thread, I would have assumed it was another childish post by a 19 year old. Dude.....you don't live in Uganda and this ain't 1937.....and you've got a fucking yellow circle covering your face? That yellow dot explains more about your dating situation than any words can convey.

    You can tell someone "this isn't a date" all you want, but when you end up in long make-out sessions, dinner and lying in bed naked together.....it's a fucking DATE. And the risk of AIDS and STD's have been eliminated for years now; they call it A CONDOM.

    You're leading this poor guy on and you need to break it off before you hurt him further. And the moment you tell him you can't see him anymore, you need to jump in your car and find the nearest therapist, because you have SEVERE intimacy issues!
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    Dec 14, 2011 9:26 PM GMT
    I think your scared.

    Time to take one for the team, so to speak.

    Don't let fear drive your life it'll only get to exactly where you don't want to be.
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    Dec 14, 2011 9:45 PM GMT
    TropicalMark said
    NakedBudd said
    To me it wasn't a "date" so much as just "Hey, let's hang out and do something." To me a date is when you do something special and spend some money on a guy.
    Actually a 'date' is doing something (non sexual) with someone you are interested in and would like to know more about. It could even be watching a movie and eating popcorn while talking!

    Agreed. These were dates, as I wrote above. And that was good! It's what the OP was supposed to be doing, perfectly normal and standard gay dates.

    Apparently the OP thinks it's not a date unless he shows up on the guy's doorstep with a bouquet of flowers, like outta some outdated straight stereotype. But for 2 gay guys, a date can be just hanging out together, as you say.

    Poor fella, he's been having dates all along and doesn't even know it. I also agree with Tanker -- I think the dear man is scared. Scared of who he is, and scared of what he wants to do. Something perhaps only a really good man can work him through, but less so with some clinical therapist. I suspect he may have found him, the answer being in a bed and not on a couch. He just needs to let it happen, before he loses his chance.
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    Dec 14, 2011 9:56 PM GMT
    Are you really a 57 year old virgin? o_0