Gay Vietnam Veteran talks to Mitt Romney

  • ChilaxinJOCK0...

    Posts: 1513

    Dec 20, 2011 12:46 AM GMT
    the mans interview at the end was intense! I'm not trying to spark off a political fight (Im sure it will) and Idk if this has already been posted... But the ending made me very sad, you can feel his frustration....

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    Dec 20, 2011 3:20 AM GMT
    A str8 cousin of mine just earlier this evening expressed similarly her frustration with this candidate for the US presidency.

    A different conversation of the incident was previously posted here http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2024700 under Gay News, where the local political pundits failed to discuss the psychology of the subject.

    What does it do to us (frustration? depression? internalized homophobia?) when we are treated as less than 100% human being by those who we are supposed to trust to protect us: by our families, by our neighbors, by our country, by our world?

    I just now googled "treated as less than human" and this is some of what I find there...

    http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt177022.html
    if you have a diagnosis of AS/autism, even simple things like walking a little too far ahead of someone gets interpreted as an "Aspergers moment". That actually happened to me. Or if you disagree with something or want to make a decision, you're treated as if everyone else has a better idea of what's best for you. Your legal freedom could even be threatened. I've had that threat over me, too. Being treated as less than human, essentially.

    http://global.christianpost.com/news/egypts-coptic-christians-treated-as-less-than-human-fear-life-will-get-worse-63362/
    Egypt's Coptic Christians Treated as ‘Less Than Human,’ Fear Life Will Get Worse

    http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/content.asp?id=43490
    It is painful to be treated as less than human,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_Confederate_States
    In reference to slavery Simelton said that black "rights were taken away" and that blacks "were treated as less than human beings."

    http://www.lifenews.com/2011/09/12/incredible-911-commercial-promotes-pro-life-message/
    “That all human creation, regardless of race, religion, abilities or stage of human life has an inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness … a right to love and be loved,” it continues. “As Americans, let’s cherish the sanctity of life. Because we know how it feels when others treat us as less than human.

    http://www.un.org/apps/sg/sgstats.asp?nid=5169
    We are here today to focus on the untold stories – the living legacy of 30 million untold stories.

    The stories of the Africans and their descendants who were treated as less than human.

    The memories, brought with them through the terror of the middle passage.


    How is it that so many of these references come from the same religious folks who refuse to treat us as 100% human beings? How did so many years of being treated as less than human affect those who were enslaved, even generations hence? What can be done to fix this? How can they ever apologize enough to us? How can they live with themselves to treat others so shamefully? How can they not immediately begin the healing process by endowing us our rights to be treated as fully 100% human beings?
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    Dec 20, 2011 6:26 AM GMT

    GROAN ---

    1.) Argue for invocation of the separation of church and state my American neighbours.

    Separate the private role of religion from the public role of regulation: --- problem gone. Ritual rights and Property rights are not the same thing. Let the bigoted have their way with marriage and form a separate church if it means so much personally -- the MCC did it and would be clad I'm sure to welcome you into their flock.


    2.) Define the role of government responsibility in private relationships.

    Spousal benefits were invoked last century because women were still men's chattel and when the men died in the wars the gov't took up the patronizing role of protector. Isn't today's role for government in the legislative interest to oversee age, consent, health, and common property protections rather than privileging with benefits coupled people over single people?


    Change the argument if you want to win this fight -- the Republicans seem to like to argue for less government - so show them door on this one and tell them the gov't has no business in the churches of the nation.

  • ChilaxinJOCK0...

    Posts: 1513

    Dec 20, 2011 3:17 PM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidHe's a republican ... what the hell did he expect the answer would be?


    yea, it seemed like he really just wanted the chance to look him in the eye and say what he needed to say. Mitt's mind will never change on that subject. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Dec 20, 2011 3:22 PM GMT
    ChilaxinJOCK09 said
    AMoonHawk saidHe's a republican ... what the hell did he expect the answer would be?


    yea, it seemed like he really just wanted the chance to look him in the eye and say what he needed to say. Mitt's mind will never change on that subject. icon_rolleyes.gif



    I agree. That being said, I don't think it necessarily is fair to take that to mean that Mitt Romney is not very supportive toward gay rights in other areas...because I think that he would be.
  • ChilaxinJOCK0...

    Posts: 1513

    Dec 20, 2011 3:25 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    ChilaxinJOCK09 said
    AMoonHawk saidHe's a republican ... what the hell did he expect the answer would be?


    yea, it seemed like he really just wanted the chance to look him in the eye and say what he needed to say. Mitt's mind will never change on that subject. icon_rolleyes.gif



    I agree. That being said, I don't think it necessarily is fair to take that to mean that Mitt Romney is not very supportive toward gay rights in other areas...because I think that he would be.


    Idk man, u think so? I feel like I'll def believe it when I see it
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    Dec 20, 2011 3:27 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    ChilaxinJOCK09 said
    AMoonHawk saidHe's a republican ... what the hell did he expect the answer would be?


    yea, it seemed like he really just wanted the chance to look him in the eye and say what he needed to say. Mitt's mind will never change on that subject. icon_rolleyes.gif



    I agree. That being said, I don't think it necessarily is fair to take that to mean that Mitt Romney is not very supportive toward gay rights in other areas...because I think that he would be.


    False.

    As a Proud Masshole, I can tell you he was FIRST in line in all of the marches around Boston protesting to repeal same-sex marriage legislation in MA. He doesn't agree with it religiously, he doesn't support it Publicly and Politically, and the only reason he's avoiding the issue now is he's trying to be less Republican-y, realising the future of winning elections will be to win the MODERATE crowd, not the extreme right or left. can we talk about Romney care? I almost forget what it is, but fortunately I'm benefiting from it Living in MA... It was something we in MA credit as one of his biggest accomplishments, now the man will barely mention it.

    I'm not arguing for/against him: What I AM arguing is that he is guilty of being a Politician- Avoiding certain topics, downplaying others, promising things we know aren't realistic etc etc etc.

    He IS a pretty "liberal" republican, but he's both trying to hide that and to flaunt it at the same time, which isn't working for him.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Dec 20, 2011 3:34 PM GMT
    Jeandeau said
    False.

    As a Proud Masshole, I can tell you he was FIRST in line in all of the marches around Boston protesting to repeal same-sex marriage legislation in MA. He doesn't agree with it religiously, he doesn't support it Publicly and Politically, and the only reason he's avoiding the issue now is he's trying to be less Republican-y, realising the future of winning elections will be to win the MODERATE crowd, not the extreme right or left. can we talk about Romney care?



    I don't really think his take on "Gay Marriage" is all that different than Obama's is. Regardless, you misinterpreted my point. I wasn't arguing that Mitt Romney opposes gay marriage -- he does -- as does Obama, Biden, Hillary Clinton, and countless others. That is not to say, however, that these people are necessarily "anti-gay".
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    Dec 20, 2011 3:38 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Jeandeau said
    False.

    As a Proud Masshole, I can tell you he was FIRST in line in all of the marches around Boston protesting to repeal same-sex marriage legislation in MA. He doesn't agree with it religiously, he doesn't support it Publicly and Politically, and the only reason he's avoiding the issue now is he's trying to be less Republican-y, realising the future of winning elections will be to win the MODERATE crowd, not the extreme right or left. can we talk about Romney care?



    I don't really think his take on "Gay Marriage" is all that different than Obama's is. Regardless, you misinterpreted my point. I wasn't arguing that Mitt Romney opposes gay marriage -- he does -- as does Obama, Biden, Hillary Clinton, and countless others. That is not to say, however, that these people are necessarily "anti-gay".


    And YOU Misinterpreted MY point. mine is NOT that Democrats all support it. Because they don't. So stop making that point- that dead horse has been killed and beaten about 152935809q3845 times. Mine is that ROMNEY actively does not agree with Gay. However it may manifest myself. I simply used the gay-marriage protests as a very public, obvious example.

  • ChilaxinJOCK0...

    Posts: 1513

    Dec 20, 2011 11:16 PM GMT
    Sometimes I do feel like if Mitt wasnt tailoring to his party that he would actually be for gay rights. Just a hunch, idk...maybe im wrong
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Dec 20, 2011 11:28 PM GMT
    Jeandeau saidMine is that ROMNEY actively does not agree with Gay.



    I know that is your point, and I disagree. If all you can cite as an example is that Romney is against "Gay Marriage", that doesn't exactly mean he is anti-gay or, as you put it, "does not agree with gay". I know someone who is gay who worked on his campaign in 2008, and he tells me that Romney is actually quite gay-friendly, just not pro-gay-marriage. I guess we would have to see how he actually governs. I suspect that it will be far more liberal than he campaigns.
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    Dec 20, 2011 11:40 PM GMT
    oh mitticon_rolleyes.gif
  • smudgedude

    Posts: 260

    Dec 21, 2011 12:28 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Jeandeau saidMine is that ROMNEY actively does not agree with Gay.



    I know that is your point, and I disagree. If all you can cite as an example is that Romney is against "Gay Marriage", that doesn't exactly mean he is anti-gay or, as you put it, "does not agree with gay". I know someone who is gay who worked on his campaign in 2008, and he tells me that Romney is actually quite gay-friendly, just not pro-gay-marriage. I guess we would have to see how he actually governs. I suspect that it will be far more liberal than he campaigns.


    for me, bottom line is i don't really give a fuck if he's gay-friendly, gay-aware, gay-whatever else. i only care about how he will address the issues that are important to the gay community.

    as a politician i don't care about his personal beliefs, the same way i didn't care clinton got a blowie from an intern in the oval office. i only care about what they do, bottom line.
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    Jan 05, 2012 7:21 PM GMT
    Wow! What a great spokesman that guys is! Mitt thought he probably had tea party bigot given his age and military background but he sure threw him for a loop. EXCELLENT!
  • Havenjock80

    Posts: 428

    Jan 05, 2012 7:40 PM GMT
    It looked like Romney called him a fag in his mind while he was getting up!

    (Thank you! you too.. F,,)

    I can see how different his reaction is from knowing he was a war vet and then until the end his face changes.

    At the end of the day, it is always what it seems.. You can color it blue or put molasses over it! it is still the same underneath! icon_confused.gif

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 05, 2012 7:44 PM GMT
    Havenjock80 said It looked like Romney called him a fag in his mind while he was getting up!

    At the end of the day, it is always what it seems.. You can color it blue or put molasses over it! it is still the same underneath! icon_confused.gif

    Ya mean you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig?
  • Havenjock80

    Posts: 428

    Jan 05, 2012 7:46 PM GMT
    TropicalMark said
    Havenjock80 said It looked like Romney called him a fag in his mind while he was getting up!

    At the end of the day, it is always what it seems.. You can color it blue or put molasses over it! it is still the same underneath! icon_confused.gif

    Ya mean you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig?


    Yup.
  • FredMG

    Posts: 988

    Jan 05, 2012 7:58 PM GMT
    Oh, Mitt,

    You're white privlege and intolerance are showing again.

    It's as though you put "serving your church" after college on the same level with a veteran who served his country out of High School. And then dismiss the man who had the balls to go off to war.

    That's the real republican policy, cowardace, intolerance and protecting their own privlege.