Pride, please explain it to me

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    Jun 15, 2008 5:19 AM GMT
    just simple, i dont mean to stir the pot, but just please can i have someone explain it to me.

    i know im gay, it doesnt define me, i dont feel the need to separate.

    i need educated opinions, not just comments on how much of an apparent "ass" i am for even questioning the idea.
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    Jun 15, 2008 5:48 AM GMT
    "Pride" is a psychological state of mind that homosexuals can use to eradicate feelings of low self-worth influenced by external environments that specifically targets them for being gay. By injecting oneself with the idea that being gay is great and special, it helps close off negative external influence.
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    Jun 15, 2008 6:28 AM GMT
    rowerboy saidjust simple, i dont mean to stir the pot, but just please can i have someone explain it to me.

    i know im gay, it doesnt define me, i dont feel the need to separate.

    ......


    I've felt the same about Black(black gay pride) and Puerto Rican prides before.

    People are usually surprised by the numbers. My first time I was surprised by how many of us had come together. Didn't feel as alone as I did before than.
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    Jun 15, 2008 6:29 AM GMT
    I have an unconventional view of PRIDE myself. I think you should only be proud of your achievements. Positive self-esteem is derived from your personal accomplishments.

    I don't think it's healthy to ascribe emotion to things you can't control. I don't think you should be proud your gay - or ashamed for that matter. Just accept it. You didn't achieve being gay - you just popped out that way. Just accept it. Then go out and achieve something that's meaningful to you, so you can be truly proud.
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jun 15, 2008 12:44 PM GMT
    crispro saidI have an unconventional view of PRIDE myself. I think you should only be proud of your achievements. Positive self-esteem is derived from your personal accomplishments.

    I don't think it's healthy to ascribe emotion to things you can't control. I don't think you should be proud your gay - or ashamed for that matter. Just accept it. You didn't achieve being gay - you just popped out that way. Just accept it. Then go out and achieve something that's meaningful to you, so you can be truly proud. And yes, I'm a psychologist.



    I think you put that very well.

    I would like to see it change from "Pride" to something where, it is a celebration of acceptance. Celebrated by both gay and stright.
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    Jun 15, 2008 1:07 PM GMT
    Apparently none of you were around during the Gay Dark Ages.

    We were told we were shameful. Many of us bought it--some still do--and we killed ourselves, or married, or spent a life having furtive sex in restrooms and parks.

    And some of us said, "Enough. We are NOT ashamed, we are proud human beings. So go fuck yourselves."

    And we remind ourselves and the world once a year that this is so, and will always be so from now on.

    And this is something you folks have a problem with?
  • jetswa737

    Posts: 18

    Jun 15, 2008 1:13 PM GMT
    Hope this helps. There is some historical significance behind pride. Believe it or not it is not just a way for people to go out and get drunk. This is a celebration of those that have lost their lives to ensure that we as the LGBT community can live our lives without fear of reprucussion. (Well I guess that depends on where you live. But nonetheless we still have it much better today than our predecessors.

    Modern history of movement

    Stonewall riots

    A transwoman with XY written on her hand, at a protest in Paris, October 1, 2005.On June 27, 1969, a group of men rioted following a police raid on the Stonewall Inn, a gay bar at 43 Christopher Street, New York City. The late Miss Stephen Whittaker a transgender rights activist and founding member of both the Gay Liberation Front and the Gay Activists Alliance, is credited by many as the first to actually strike back at the police and, in so doing, spark the rebellion. Further protests and rioting continued for several nights following the raid.

    The Stonewall riots are generally considered to be the beginning of the modern gay rights movement.

    The 1970s
    Gay Liberation Front and Gay Activists Alliance in the early post-Stonewall era, coordinated the first year anniversary rally and then the "Christopher Street Gay Liberation Day March" on June 28, 1970 to commemorate the first year anniversary of the Stonewall Rebellion. First year anniversary marches organized by other groups were also held in San Francisco and Los Angeles in 1970.

    Brenda Howard also originated the idea for a week-long series of events around what is now known as Pride Day; this became the first of the extended annual LGBT Pride celebrations that are now held around the world.

    In New York and Atlanta the annual day of celebration to commemorate the Stonewall Riot came to be called Gay Liberation Day; in San Francisco and Los Angeles it was called Gay Freedom Day. Both names spread as more and more cities and towns started holding similar celebrations.


    The 1980s

    In the 1980s there was a major cultural shift in the Stonewall Riot commemorations. The previous loosely organized, bottom-up marches and parades were taken over by more organised and less radical elements of the gay community. The marches began dropping "Liberation" and "Freedom" from their names under pressure from more conservative members of the community, replacing them with the philosophy of "Gay Pride (in the more liberal city of San Francisco, the name of the gay parade and celebration was not changed from Gay Freedom Day Parade to Gay Pride Day Parade until 1994). The Greek lambda symbol and the pink triangle which had been revolutionary symbols of the Gay Liberation Movement were tidied up and incorporated into the Gay Pride, or Pride, movement, providing some symbolic continuity with its more radical beginnings.

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    Jun 15, 2008 1:37 PM GMT
    jprichva saidApparently none of you were around during the Gay Dark Ages.

    We were told we were shameful. Many of us bought it--some still do--and we killed ourselves, or married, or spent a life having furtive sex in restrooms and parks.

    And some of us said, "Enough. We are NOT ashamed, we are proud human beings. So go fuck yourselves."

    And we remind ourselves and the world once a year that this is so, and will always be so from now on.

    And this is something you folks have a problem with?


    Being an o'l fag of 46. One well remembers the Gay Dark Ages. But I've never needed a gay parade to feel good about myself, or to shove my sexuality down the throat of others. I've never been to one, and have no intention of doing so.

    Yet Ones daily actions as a homosexual out in the real world, do not do the gay community any harm. As One is seen as doing good, being good, and giving to mainstream community.
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    Jun 15, 2008 1:58 PM GMT
    Besides being a fun time, Gay pride day allows members of the LGBT community to demonstrate to the wider public that they are not invisible and will not take being discriminated against or pushed around. For young gay men who didn't live in the 1980's or before when gay men who lived openly had virtually no rights, it is hard to understand what it was like.

    Just imagine living with the man you love for 20 years who was ignored by his family for being gay, have him die then have the family swoop in and claim his estate, and you will better appreciate what gay men used to go through. In some places they still go through those experiences. Or being fired from your work for being gay. In the US military that still happens.

    Gay pride to me is not being proud of being gay, it is pride in accepting who I am and living the life Mother Nature expects of me despite the obstacles ignorant people put up.
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    Jun 15, 2008 2:04 PM GMT
    LGBTQ's version of new years celebration .... every race, ethnic groups, religious beliefs...etc... have their own "special" day to celebrate their identity. PRIDE is our celebration of who we are .... I know there are a majority of the LGBTQ community have issues with PRIDE. Get over it .... we all can celebrate PRIDE in our own personal way. I don't always attend PRIDE parades because it just too darn hot or WET in ATLANTA. But during PRIDE month and week, I celebrate the occasion my way ....

    Hugs and kisses to all... and be proud.

    A

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    Jun 15, 2008 2:19 PM GMT
    Very well said, JP. Even though I'm not a big fan of the pride parades myself, you summed it up in a way that no one can argue against.
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    Jun 15, 2008 2:32 PM GMT
    You are so right JBE60. It does still goes on today. We have come a long way but we still have a lot further to go. I lost my job of 13 years just because I admitted I am gay. I loved my job and the people that I worked with. The only Thing I did wrong was admit the truth when someone asked. In Delaware we have no rights. Two weeks after admitting it, I was let go. I had perfect attendance, tons of awards for doing a great job. I had never been written up. The only problem was the president and vise president are bigots. I went to the labor board and they laughed at me. They said as a white gay male, in Delaware you have no rights. I ended up getting a better job and life is good. I just want everyone to know it still happens.
  • coolarmydude

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    Jun 15, 2008 2:43 PM GMT
    It's amazing that those who have never been to a PRIDE event has an answer on the subject.

    PRIDE doesn't define anything. It's a celebration of community. It tells the public that there are many more gays than you think. It's not an us-against-them event. It's all inclusive.

    For those with some pre-conceived notion of what PRIDE is, I HIGHLY SUGGEST you check it our for yourself and find your own answers there. I was the same skeptical until I went to Seattle PRIDE in 2003.
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    Jun 15, 2008 2:51 PM GMT
    GerogeE, your story was very upsetting. If that happened to me I would have them up on wrongful dismissal charges so fast it would make their heads spin.

    An admin. assistant who used to work for me past away recently from AIDS. I found out last week that he died alone because his family had rejected him for being gay. Funny thing is they didn't reject the money they got from him after he died. Makes me sick how human beings can act, even blood relatives.
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    Jun 15, 2008 3:07 PM GMT
    Ask questions for forever stay stupid... There's no such thing as a stupid question. But to answer your pride question, I feel that gay pride is not over the top, center stage shouting it out with a megaphone "I'M GAY!" but rather it's the sense that you don't need to fear what other people think of you, that you don't need to hide it, because you're afraid of what might happen if people find out.

    As you said, being gay doesn't define who you are, yes you are gay, but it is only a small part of you, as you are a friend, a brother, a father, a son... Each of them doesn't define who you are, rather it's a tiny part of who you are.

    I'll be around if anyone wants my pearls of wisdom... I might be of help to someone oneday. haha.

    Thank you and goodnight.
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jun 15, 2008 3:51 PM GMT
    "Gay is normal!
    The most important message of a pride day is that gays are just normal people. This is clearly demonstrated by the act of prancing down the middle of the main road of a major city dressed only in a silver jockstrap that leaves one's pasty white arse hanging out. Exposing one's breasts or penis, or indeed, both, is also a highly effective way of emphasising one's typical nature and empathy with mainstream culture. Comical papier-maché ones work too.

    Busloads of tourists are the best people to direct this demonstration towards. Japanese tourists in particular will come to understand and fully appreciate the "guy-next-door" nature of homosexuality when they see five men in full drag having a public orgy in the middle of Old Queen Street."

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    Jun 15, 2008 6:30 PM GMT
    JBE60,
    I know what you mean. My mom lived with us and died at our house. Brothers and sisters who have never been to my house were knocking on my door to see what they could get. They wouldn't give me the time of day any other time. I know if I were to die, they would try to take everything Norm and I have. Even though we have been together 20 years, it means nothing as far as our rights.
    To make sure he is protected I had to make sure I had a will. In my will had had to give each one a dollar. My lawyer said this way they are getting something and can't take anything else. We also got living wills. As I said we have a long way to go as far as gay rights. Oh As far as my job, I tried fighting it in every way. It is the only thing I hate about Delaware. The employee has no rights and if you’re gay forget it.
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    Jun 21, 2008 2:49 PM GMT
    Reisce> People are usually surprised by the numbers. My first time I was surprised by how many of us had come together. Didn't feel as alone as I did before than

    Good point. I remember going to Lansing pride shortly after coming out and being wowed by the 5,000 people there. The next year I went to Chicago and saw 100,000 people. And most of them were "normal". It was a welcome development for me, especially given that the only out gay man I knew for about a year or two didn't have all his marbles (he would, literally, drool at times) and what I saw in TV was mostly drag queens and leather daddies (not me, making me think that maybe I'm not really gay... it's just a phase....)


    crispro> I think you should only be proud of your achievements. Positive self-esteem is derived from your personal accomplishments.

    Coming out can be an achievement. And there's nothing wrong with being proud of who you are, even if you were born that way. Sure beats the social background radiation of the shame associated with being gay (and perhaps other out-groups).


    Pattison> I've never needed a gay parade to feel good about myself, or to shove my sexuality down the throat of others.

    Do straight parades force their sexuality down the throats of others?

    Pattison> I've never been to one, and have no intention of doing so.

    Yet another person judging something out of ignorance and his own biases and pre-conceived notions.

    Reading on, I see I'm repeating what coolarmydude said. That's OK, it's worth repeating. (:


    MikePhil> (Normality) is clearly demonstrated by the act of prancing down the middle of the main road of a major city dressed only in a silver jockstrap that leaves one's pasty white arse hanging out.

    Well, if one focuses on the exceptions and ignores the other 99%... then one can manipulate the data (via selectivity) to match their pre-conceived notions - premises masquerading as conclusions.
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    Jun 21, 2008 4:08 PM GMT
    i went to chicago pride when i was 19 but haven't been to one since. i keep saying i'll go every year but haven't made it yet
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    Jun 21, 2008 4:18 PM GMT
    I don't think you're an ass. I think you are someone who asked a pretty good question and those it needs an answer.

    I'm gay as are most of the people here. My "gayness" goes as far as just being a guy who enjoys the sexual company of other men. All that other stuff doesn't suit my lifestyle. I'mnot gonna knockon tother for feeling the need to celebrate being gay since that's their deal and apparently it does something for them.

    Come to your own terms and your sense of ownership. No one should judge you for it.
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    Jun 21, 2008 4:44 PM GMT
    Pride in being gay is necessary healing for those us were hurt, badly in childhood and adolescence. Those us who were called "faggot," "worthless" and told that we were "better off dead" a billion times during our formative years. If you were fortunate enough not to have experienced anything like that, of course you don't understand the need for pride. Our experiences define us as much as anything else. And gay, for many has been an experience and a journey, not just a status. So let's celebrate our pride!
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    Jun 21, 2008 5:35 PM GMT
    be-proud_02.gif

    I won't deny what others have shared in this thread; everyone has a different definition and perception on what "Pride/Gay Pride" means to them; this is something that you will define for yourself! Some take it for the political perspective, some for the fact that they feel "free", others for the superficial aspect of it and everything in between. No one can define your Pride for you, it's YOURS to own and celebrate!! ENJOY it!!!
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    Jun 21, 2008 6:34 PM GMT
    ^^What jprichva and jetswa737 said. very well-put guys!

    Rowerboy, read up on the early history of the LGBT movement. it'll also help flesh out where we've come from and why Pride is an essential part icon_biggrin.gif
  • iHavok

    Posts: 1477

    Jun 21, 2008 6:52 PM GMT
    Rower...

    Problem is that "Pride" has become synonymous with "gay parade", and it's a whole lot more than just that.

    So my suggestion is, avoid the parties and the parades and instead focus on the actual, original concept.

    A lot of people have struggled to help you obtain the rights you now enjoy. How about giving back some, or learning about their fight?

    I have yet to be to a Pride event (Seattle to Chicago...i move a lot) which doesn't also offer lectures and classes and such. They aren't as marketed as well as the parade, however they are much, much more important.

    A friend with her Masters in psychology has presented many papers and studies on the ridiculous numbers of teen agers who attempt and/or succeed in suicide because they might be gay. How about volunteering at a suicide hotline?
    Have any specialized skills you could use to help others? With gay rights being such a huge sticking point lately, if you are able, i'm sure it would be easy to provide legal council for someone in the community...
  • bigguysf

    Posts: 329

    Jun 21, 2008 7:26 PM GMT
    Just something to think about for those who mention the historical references leading to the creation of PRIDE events...

    I'm not sure that the early founders of gay pride celebrations would admire how their "celebrations of coming together for acceptance of who we are" have become a drunken free-for-all for many. Also, the community aspect of pride celebrations is pretty moot if all we can do is come together for only one day out of 365 (and a quarter). The subsequent creation of separate ethnic pride celebrations was a reaction to "still" being kept from the community table, even on that one day.

    So the relevance of celebrating PRIDE in our modern context is not so cut and dry as many in this forum topic would like to believe. Personally, I'm ambivalent and sometimes go to the festivities here in SF and sometimes don't. If I do go I'm usually gone by the time the alcohol-consumption and sun exposure start to combine (around 4-5). And that's with bypassing the parade altogether.

    A quick kudos to the NY pride parade though. THAT was a cool parade!