Businesses Exit California and Illinois; Tax and Destroy Policies of Governors Quinn and Brown; Unemployment Rates By State

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    Dec 27, 2011 10:08 PM GMT
    Of course some people think it takes a PhD in order to realize that the wealthiest will either stop trying to earn as much or redirect resources overseas. That's what counts as "sophistication" these days. Expect things to get worse before they get better.

    http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/12/businesses-exit-california-and-illinois.html

    Businesses have had it with poor business conditions in two of the most dysfunctional states in the union, California and Illinois.

    In an editorial, the Orange County Register reports Even profitable firms fleeing California

    Democratic reaction to the news that Waste Connections, a $3.6-billion company and major Sacramento-area employer, is headed to Houston to seek a friendlier business climate tells other businesses all they need to know about the attitudes of those who run California's government.

    State Senate President Pro Tem Darrell Steinberg, D-Sacramento, gave these clueless and snarky remarks in response to the news: "In this instance you have a company that is, in fact, profitable, making significant revenue gains in 2011 and 2010. That doesn't speak to a bad business climate here in California when a good company is able to thrive in that way. So whatever Mr. Middelstaedt's (company CEO) reasons are to leave the great state of California, I know I'm pushing back."

    Is it really the Senate president's role to determine the proper profit margin for a privately owned company? Talk about arrogance.

    "The decision by Waste Connections to relocate, despite the 17 percent revenue increase and the $18 million cost to move to Texas, illustrates that businesses will endure short-term costs to ensure long-term prosperity," wrote state Sen. Mimi Walters, R-Laguna Niguel, in response to Steinberg's message. Walters quotes business-relocation expert Joe Vranich of Irvine, who notes that businesses typically save 40 percent in costs by leaving California because of lower taxes and more manageable regulations found elsewhere.

    If California wants to improve its business climate and reduce its double-digit unemployment rate, its officials need to understand what companies such as Waste Connections are saying, rather than simply dismiss their concerns.


    Businesses Bargain for Better Deals in Illinois

    The Chicago Tribune lists 10 companies with an eye in exiting the state in Illinois companies eyeing an exit

    Chicago's huge futures exchange owner CME Group has joined a growing list of companies threatening to leave Illinois as a result of the state's corporate tax increase earlier this year. Illinois pushed through the 45 percent corporate tax increase in January, trying to address one of the biggest budget shortfalls of any state in the U.S. But the move proved to be a risky step -- since then, both small and large companies have complained about the increase, and some have received incentives to stay put.



    Also on the list: Sears, Motorola Mobility, Caterpillar, Navistar, Mitsubishi, US Cellular, Jimmy John's, and continental Tire.

    Small Businesses, Taxpayers Screwed

    On December 12, Illinois House approved CME-CBOE, Sears tax deal. Indeed, most of the above companies negotiated huge tax breaks and will stay in Illinois at least for a while.

    Small companies with no clout and no leverage as well as taxpayers in general are the ones paying the price for the seriously misguided policies of Democratic Governors Pat Quinn, and Jerry Brown.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 27, 2011 11:13 PM GMT
    Ya know.. IF you were to have read the Sac Bee as I do daily, (it used to be my home) you'd know exactly what went on with this company.
    Your article is highly biased, inaccurate and without facts pertaining to the history of this company.

    But.. since you're a foreigner that lives in another country and thinks he's a knowitall about everyone and everything on then planet....so sad..

    DEBUNKED.
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    Dec 27, 2011 11:25 PM GMT
    Pathetic. Frankly, if businesses do not contribute positively to the places where they are located, then let them leave. To be held hostage to a company's desire to pay outrageous salaries or hit outsized sales figures to please Wall Street, is no way to govern.

    And despite all the durm and strang about my fair city, Facebook and many other tech companies are expanding their operations here.

    PS: That riddler thinks that local governments should be beholden to business is the textbook definition of fascism.
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    Dec 27, 2011 11:27 PM GMT
    TropicalMark saidYa know.. IF you were to have read the Sac Bee as I do daily, (it used to be my home) you'd know exactly what went on with this company.
    Your article is highly biased, inaccurate and without facts pertaining to the history of this company.

    But.. since you're a foreigner that lives in another country and thinks he's a knowitall about everyone and everything on then planet....so sad..

    DEBUNKED.


    You mean like this article? http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/13/4118518/folsom-based-waste-connections.html

    Cost savings versus business climate - both as a direct result of the business climate created by the state. At the end of the day you have higher unemployment in states that have greatest taxes and regulation.

    Debunked? No - quite the opposite.
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    Dec 27, 2011 11:30 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidPathetic. Frankly, if businesses do not contribute positively to the places where they are located, then let them leave. To be held hostage to a company's desire to pay outrageous salaries or hit outsized sales figures to please Wall Street, is no way to govern.

    And despite all the durm and strang about my fair city, Facebook and many other tech companies are expanding their operations here.

    PS: That riddler thinks that local governments should be beholden to business is the textbook definition of fascism.


    Actually that's not what I believe at all - but for you to think that, makes you a moron. As for Facebook and other tech companies - look at the counties in which they've chosen to locate.

    As businesses of all types flee states like California and Illinois - it's a bit amusing that there remain those like you who extol the virtues of overspending corruption and bureaucracy.
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    Dec 27, 2011 11:38 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidPathetic. Frankly, if businesses do not contribute positively to the places where they are located, then let them leave. To be held hostage to a company's desire to pay outrageous salaries or hit outsized sales figures to please Wall Street, is no way to govern.

    And despite all the durm and strang about my fair city, Facebook and many other tech companies are expanding their operations here.

    PS: That riddler thinks that local governments should be beholden to business is the textbook definition of fascism.


    Actually that's not what I believe at all - but for you to think that, makes you a moron. As for Facebook and other tech companies - look at the counties in which they've chosen to locate.

    As businesses of all types flee states like California and Illinois - it's a bit amusing that there remain those like you who extol the virtues of overspending corruption and bureaucracy.


    Riddler - Either you do believe what I wrote above or your belief system and what you write on RJ are wildly out of sync. Businesses leaving one state for another is unpatriotic and should be illegal. If I were governor of either state i would add a surtax for importation of goods and services of any businesses that leave the state to avoid taxation or take advantage of weak labor laws.

    And Facebook is located in Manhattan. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Dec 27, 2011 11:51 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidPathetic. Frankly, if businesses do not contribute positively to the places where they are located, then let them leave. To be held hostage to a company's desire to pay outrageous salaries or hit outsized sales figures to please Wall Street, is no way to govern.

    And despite all the durm and strang about my fair city, Facebook and many other tech companies are expanding their operations here.

    PS: That riddler thinks that local governments should be beholden to business is the textbook definition of fascism.


    Actually that's not what I believe at all - but for you to think that, makes you a moron. As for Facebook and other tech companies - look at the counties in which they've chosen to locate.

    As businesses of all types flee states like California and Illinois - it's a bit amusing that there remain those like you who extol the virtues of overspending corruption and bureaucracy.


    Riddler - Either you do believe what I wrote above or your belief system and what you write on RJ are wildly out of sync. Businesses leaving one state for another is unpatriotic and should be illegal. If I were governor of either state i would add a surtax for importation of goods and services of any businesses that leave the state to avoid taxation or take advantage of weak labor laws.

    And Facebook is located in Manhattan. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Forbidding businesses to move from one jurisdiction to another without permission from the Government, as you suggest, was the policy ..... Of the USSR and the DDR (East Germany). But they weren't private businesses anyway, further consistent with your goals. Unfortunate you were not born there and 50 years earlier. You'd have had a really swell time.
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    Dec 27, 2011 11:58 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidPathetic. Frankly, if businesses do not contribute positively to the places where they are located, then let them leave. To be held hostage to a company's desire to pay outrageous salaries or hit outsized sales figures to please Wall Street, is no way to govern.

    And despite all the durm and strang about my fair city, Facebook and many other tech companies are expanding their operations here.

    PS: That riddler thinks that local governments should be beholden to business is the textbook definition of fascism.


    Actually that's not what I believe at all - but for you to think that, makes you a moron. As for Facebook and other tech companies - look at the counties in which they've chosen to locate.

    As businesses of all types flee states like California and Illinois - it's a bit amusing that there remain those like you who extol the virtues of overspending corruption and bureaucracy.


    Riddler - Either you do believe what I wrote above or your belief system and what you write on RJ are wildly out of sync. Businesses leaving one state for another is unpatriotic and should be illegal. If I were governor of either state i would add a surtax for importation of goods and services of any businesses that leave the state to avoid taxation or take advantage of weak labor laws.

    And Facebook is located in Manhattan. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Forbidding businesses to move from one jurisdiction to another without permission from the Government, as you suggest, was the policy ..... Of the USSR and the DDR (East Germany). But they weren't private businesses anyway, further consistent with your goals. Unfortunate you were not born there and 50 years earlier. You'd have had a really swell time.


    You assume that Christian has any issue with how USSR treated its citizens or enterprises.
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    Dec 28, 2011 12:01 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidPathetic. Frankly, if businesses do not contribute positively to the places where they are located, then let them leave. To be held hostage to a company's desire to pay outrageous salaries or hit outsized sales figures to please Wall Street, is no way to govern.

    And despite all the durm and strang about my fair city, Facebook and many other tech companies are expanding their operations here.

    PS: That riddler thinks that local governments should be beholden to business is the textbook definition of fascism.


    Actually that's not what I believe at all - but for you to think that, makes you a moron. As for Facebook and other tech companies - look at the counties in which they've chosen to locate.

    As businesses of all types flee states like California and Illinois - it's a bit amusing that there remain those like you who extol the virtues of overspending corruption and bureaucracy.


    Riddler - Either you do believe what I wrote above or your belief system and what you write on RJ are wildly out of sync. Businesses leaving one state for another is unpatriotic and should be illegal. If I were governor of either state i would add a surtax for importation of goods and services of any businesses that leave the state to avoid taxation or take advantage of weak labor laws.

    And Facebook is located in Manhattan. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Forbidding businesses to move from one jurisdiction to another without permission from the Government, as you suggest, was the policy ..... Of the USSR and the DDR (East Germany). But they weren't private businesses anyway, further consistent with your goals. Unfortunate you were not born there and 50 years earlier. You'd have had a really swell time.


    You assume that Christian has any issue with how USSR treated its citizens or enterprises.

    He would be the first to look the other way because he agreed with the ideology.
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    Dec 28, 2011 1:44 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    TropicalMark saidYa know.. IF you were to have read the Sac Bee as I do daily, (it used to be my home) you'd know exactly what went on with this company.
    Your article is highly biased, inaccurate and without facts pertaining to the history of this company.

    But.. since you're a foreigner that lives in another country and thinks he's a knowitall about everyone and everything on then planet....so sad..

    DEBUNKED.


    You mean like this article? http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/13/4118518/folsom-based-waste-connections.html

    Cost savings versus business climate - both as a direct result of the business climate created by the state. At the end of the day you have higher unemployment in states that have greatest taxes and regulation.

    Debunked? No - quite the opposite.
    Go collect the rest..icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 28, 2011 1:59 AM GMT
    TropicalMark said
    riddler78 said
    TropicalMark saidYa know.. IF you were to have read the Sac Bee as I do daily, (it used to be my home) you'd know exactly what went on with this company.
    Your article is highly biased, inaccurate and without facts pertaining to the history of this company.

    But.. since you're a foreigner that lives in another country and thinks he's a knowitall about everyone and everything on then planet....so sad..

    DEBUNKED.


    You mean like this article? http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/13/4118518/folsom-based-waste-connections.html

    Cost savings versus business climate - both as a direct result of the business climate created by the state. At the end of the day you have higher unemployment in states that have greatest taxes and regulation.

    Debunked? No - quite the opposite.
    Go collect the rest..icon_wink.gif


    Which basically say the same minus your illusions of conspiracies, etc. Meanwhile more businesses leave the state. Congratulations. Californian legislators are getting what they want AND they are providing an excellent example to the rest of the country that in fact, yes, taxes do affect how people act.
  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Dec 28, 2011 2:10 AM GMT
    Let's hope Democrats continue this practice in California and Illinois. They will go blue in 2012 as always. What is important is that recruitment of California and Illinois based companies is in full swing. Let them solve their problems that they have created.
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    Dec 28, 2011 2:33 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    riddler78 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidPathetic. Frankly, if businesses do not contribute positively to the places where they are located, then let them leave. To be held hostage to a company's desire to pay outrageous salaries or hit outsized sales figures to please Wall Street, is no way to govern.

    And despite all the durm and strang about my fair city, Facebook and many other tech companies are expanding their operations here.

    PS: That riddler thinks that local governments should be beholden to business is the textbook definition of fascism.


    Actually that's not what I believe at all - but for you to think that, makes you a moron. As for Facebook and other tech companies - look at the counties in which they've chosen to locate.

    As businesses of all types flee states like California and Illinois - it's a bit amusing that there remain those like you who extol the virtues of overspending corruption and bureaucracy.


    Riddler - Either you do believe what I wrote above or your belief system and what you write on RJ are wildly out of sync. Businesses leaving one state for another is unpatriotic and should be illegal. If I were governor of either state i would add a surtax for importation of goods and services of any businesses that leave the state to avoid taxation or take advantage of weak labor laws.

    And Facebook is located in Manhattan. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Forbidding businesses to move from one jurisdiction to another without permission from the Government, as you suggest, was the policy ..... Of the USSR and the DDR (East Germany). But they weren't private businesses anyway, further consistent with your goals. Unfortunate you were not born there and 50 years earlier. You'd have had a really swell time.


    You assume that Christian has any issue with how USSR treated its citizens or enterprises.

    He would be the first to look the other way because he agreed with the ideology.


    Soviet communism is not in any way consistent with my ideology. Further, as usual, Socal's analogy is off mark as I'm suggesting that states react to what businesses do to them, not a federal coordination.

    Try again.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 28, 2011 2:50 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    riddler78 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidPathetic. Frankly, if businesses do not contribute positively to the places where they are located, then let them leave. To be held hostage to a company's desire to pay outrageous salaries or hit outsized sales figures to please Wall Street, is no way to govern.

    And despite all the durm and strang about my fair city, Facebook and many other tech companies are expanding their operations here.

    PS: That riddler thinks that local governments should be beholden to business is the textbook definition of fascism.


    Actually that's not what I believe at all - but for you to think that, makes you a moron. As for Facebook and other tech companies - look at the counties in which they've chosen to locate.

    As businesses of all types flee states like California and Illinois - it's a bit amusing that there remain those like you who extol the virtues of overspending corruption and bureaucracy.


    Riddler - Either you do believe what I wrote above or your belief system and what you write on RJ are wildly out of sync. Businesses leaving one state for another is unpatriotic and should be illegal. If I were governor of either state i would add a surtax for importation of goods and services of any businesses that leave the state to avoid taxation or take advantage of weak labor laws.

    And Facebook is located in Manhattan. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Forbidding businesses to move from one jurisdiction to another without permission from the Government, as you suggest, was the policy ..... Of the USSR and the DDR (East Germany). But they weren't private businesses anyway, further consistent with your goals. Unfortunate you were not born there and 50 years earlier. You'd have had a really swell time.


    You assume that Christian has any issue with how USSR treated its citizens or enterprises.

    He would be the first to look the other way because he agreed with the ideology.


    Soviet communism is not in any way consistent with my ideology. Further, as usual, Socal's analogy is off mark as I'm suggesting that states react to what businesses do to them, not a federal coordination.

    Try again.


    It's certainly analogous to your read of what I believe - at least considerably more so. Businesses should have the right to leave and seek better political environments where governments actually want them instead of seeing them as suckers to be taxed.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 28, 2011 3:10 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    riddler78 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidPathetic. Frankly, if businesses do not contribute positively to the places where they are located, then let them leave. To be held hostage to a company's desire to pay outrageous salaries or hit outsized sales figures to please Wall Street, is no way to govern.

    And despite all the durm and strang about my fair city, Facebook and many other tech companies are expanding their operations here.

    PS: That riddler thinks that local governments should be beholden to business is the textbook definition of fascism.


    Actually that's not what I believe at all - but for you to think that, makes you a moron. As for Facebook and other tech companies - look at the counties in which they've chosen to locate.

    As businesses of all types flee states like California and Illinois - it's a bit amusing that there remain those like you who extol the virtues of overspending corruption and bureaucracy.


    Riddler - Either you do believe what I wrote above or your belief system and what you write on RJ are wildly out of sync. Businesses leaving one state for another is unpatriotic and should be illegal. If I were governor of either state i would add a surtax for importation of goods and services of any businesses that leave the state to avoid taxation or take advantage of weak labor laws.

    And Facebook is located in Manhattan. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Forbidding businesses to move from one jurisdiction to another without permission from the Government, as you suggest, was the policy ..... Of the USSR and the DDR (East Germany). But they weren't private businesses anyway, further consistent with your goals. Unfortunate you were not born there and 50 years earlier. You'd have had a really swell time.


    You assume that Christian has any issue with how USSR treated its citizens or enterprises.

    He would be the first to look the other way because he agreed with the ideology.


    Soviet communism is not in any way consistent with my ideology. Further, as usual, Socal's analogy is off mark as I'm suggesting that states react to what businesses do to them, not a federal coordination.

    Try again.


    It's certainly analogous to your read of what I believe - at least considerably more so. Businesses should have the right to leave and seek better political environments where governments actually want them instead of seeing them as suckers to be taxed.
    Hmmm.. remember all those companies who went to INDIA?

    India's corporate TAX rate= 33.2175%

    No if ands or loopholes..
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 28, 2011 7:48 AM GMT
    TropicalMark said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    riddler78 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidPathetic. Frankly, if businesses do not contribute positively to the places where they are located, then let them leave. To be held hostage to a company's desire to pay outrageous salaries or hit outsized sales figures to please Wall Street, is no way to govern.

    And despite all the durm and strang about my fair city, Facebook and many other tech companies are expanding their operations here.

    PS: That riddler thinks that local governments should be beholden to business is the textbook definition of fascism.


    Actually that's not what I believe at all - but for you to think that, makes you a moron. As for Facebook and other tech companies - look at the counties in which they've chosen to locate.

    As businesses of all types flee states like California and Illinois - it's a bit amusing that there remain those like you who extol the virtues of overspending corruption and bureaucracy.


    Riddler - Either you do believe what I wrote above or your belief system and what you write on RJ are wildly out of sync. Businesses leaving one state for another is unpatriotic and should be illegal. If I were governor of either state i would add a surtax for importation of goods and services of any businesses that leave the state to avoid taxation or take advantage of weak labor laws.

    And Facebook is located in Manhattan. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Forbidding businesses to move from one jurisdiction to another without permission from the Government, as you suggest, was the policy ..... Of the USSR and the DDR (East Germany). But they weren't private businesses anyway, further consistent with your goals. Unfortunate you were not born there and 50 years earlier. You'd have had a really swell time.


    You assume that Christian has any issue with how USSR treated its citizens or enterprises.

    He would be the first to look the other way because he agreed with the ideology.


    Soviet communism is not in any way consistent with my ideology. Further, as usual, Socal's analogy is off mark as I'm suggesting that states react to what businesses do to them, not a federal coordination.

    Try again.


    It's certainly analogous to your read of what I believe - at least considerably more so. Businesses should have the right to leave and seek better political environments where governments actually want them instead of seeing them as suckers to be taxed.
    Hmmm.. remember all those companies who went to INDIA?

    India's corporate TAX rate= 33.2175%

    No if ands or loopholes..


    Which ones would they be? Do you even any conception of how and why they move some operations to India and where they maintain their highest value operations?
  • JP85257

    Posts: 3284

    Dec 28, 2011 7:42 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidPathetic. Frankly, if businesses do not contribute positively to the places where they are located, then let them leave. To be held hostage to a company's desire to pay outrageous salaries or hit outsized sales figures to please Wall Street, is no way to govern.

    And despite all the durm and strang about my fair city, Facebook and many other tech companies are expanding their operations here.

    PS: That riddler thinks that local governments should be beholden to business is the textbook definition of fascism.

    Its these profitable companies that donate to your fund raising ventures.....
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 29, 2011 4:53 AM GMT
    JP85257 said
    Christian73 saidPathetic. Frankly, if businesses do not contribute positively to the places where they are located, then let them leave. To be held hostage to a company's desire to pay outrageous salaries or hit outsized sales figures to please Wall Street, is no way to govern.

    And despite all the durm and strang about my fair city, Facebook and many other tech companies are expanding their operations here.

    PS: That riddler thinks that local governments should be beholden to business is the textbook definition of fascism.

    Its these profitable companies that donate to your fund raising ventures.....


    Actually, funding from private companies accounts for the smallest percentage of philanthropy in the US.
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    Dec 29, 2011 7:37 AM GMT
    conservativejock saidLet's hope Democrats continue this practice in California and Illinois. They will go blue in 2012 as always. What is important is that recruitment of California and Illinois based companies is in full swing. Let them solve their problems that they have created.


    Fuck you, i live in illinois dick bag, that means i have to tolerate the bullshit cause i don't have to funds to move. the only reason illinois goes blue every year is because of that hell hole chicago (thank god i don't live there any more) and my company thought about leaving but stayed instead. so wishing other people get fucked over because pat quinn's a fuck face is rather insulting.
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    Dec 30, 2011 3:31 AM GMT
    SA1911 said
    conservativejock saidLet's hope Democrats continue this practice in California and Illinois. They will go blue in 2012 as always. What is important is that recruitment of California and Illinois based companies is in full swing. Let them solve their problems that they have created.


    Fuck you, i live in illinois dick bag, that means i have to tolerate the bullshit cause i don't have to funds to move. the only reason illinois goes blue every year is because of that hell hole chicago (thank god i don't live there any more) and my company thought about leaving but stayed instead. so wishing other people get fucked over because pat quinn's a fuck face is rather insulting.


    Well said. When businesses leave these states, it creates a loss of tax revenue. What is going to happen when all the tax givers have left and all the tax takers are standing with their hands out?
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    Dec 30, 2011 6:25 AM GMT
    i don't know why pat quinn hasn't been recalled yet
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 30, 2011 6:37 AM GMT
    CHRISTOPHER34 said
    SA1911 said
    conservativejock saidLet's hope Democrats continue this practice in California and Illinois. They will go blue in 2012 as always. What is important is that recruitment of California and Illinois based companies is in full swing. Let them solve their problems that they have created.


    Fuck you, i live in illinois dick bag, that means i have to tolerate the bullshit cause i don't have to funds to move. the only reason illinois goes blue every year is because of that hell hole chicago (thank god i don't live there any more) and my company thought about leaving but stayed instead. so wishing other people get fucked over because pat quinn's a fuck face is rather insulting.


    Well said. When businesses leave these states, it creates a loss of tax revenue. What is going to happen when all the tax givers have left and all the tax takers are standing with their hands out?


    You know I almost thought you'd given up the sock, SB. icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 30, 2011 7:18 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    CHRISTOPHER34 said
    SA1911 said
    conservativejock saidLet's hope Democrats continue this practice in California and Illinois. They will go blue in 2012 as always. What is important is that recruitment of California and Illinois based companies is in full swing. Let them solve their problems that they have created.


    Fuck you, i live in illinois dick bag, that means i have to tolerate the bullshit cause i don't have to funds to move. the only reason illinois goes blue every year is because of that hell hole chicago (thank god i don't live there any more) and my company thought about leaving but stayed instead. so wishing other people get fucked over because pat quinn's a fuck face is rather insulting.


    Well said. When businesses leave these states, it creates a loss of tax revenue. What is going to happen when all the tax givers have left and all the tax takers are standing with their hands out?


    You know I almost thought you'd given up the sock, SB. icon_lol.gif

    Christian - Both FrostedFlakes and I have seen Christopher on CAM and he is not SB. So cut the crap.