Too Weird

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 31, 2011 3:40 PM GMT


    After wading in yesterday and trying to moderate/facilitate some civility yesterday, we're giving up. Both sides of the equation seem to enjoy slapping at each other, escalating, and generally being all nasty.

    Some get all lofty, but counter their supposed above-it-all attitude with little intensely personal superiority digs that set off firestorms.

    We've seen Michele Obama get slagged in the most personal ways and Romney as well.

    We've seen outright lies and tried to call the liars on them.

    There seems to be an awful lot of conflict oriented people here, and this is what gives them their endorphin rush - conflict.

    It ruins topics, creates hard feelings and topics/discussions get nowhere.
    All the topics keep dropping down to their lowest common denominator.

    What a colossal waste of time and energy and thwarting of exploring both sides of US politics.


    On that note, for what's it's worth,

    Happy New Year

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    Dec 31, 2011 3:51 PM GMT
    I think your approach is wise. Not everything boils down to conflicts that are resolved by olive branches. Some folks have a basic lack of respect for certain others and choose to ignore them, and there's nothing wrong with that.

    Happy New Year.
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    Dec 31, 2011 3:53 PM GMT


    hmmmm......you're in the group mentioned, so just for that we may continue.
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    Dec 31, 2011 3:53 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    hmmmm......you're in the group mentioned, so just for that we may continue.

    Of course - Only thing I would point out, not that it would made any difference, is that your moderation was not balanced. You tended to favor and ignore all but the most glaring transgressions of one group, but again, no matter.
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    Dec 31, 2011 4:02 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    meninlove said

    hmmmm......you're in the group mentioned, so just for that we may continue.

    Of course - Only thing I would point out, not that it would made any difference, is that your moderation was not balanced. You tended to favor and ignore all but the most glaring transgressions of one group, but again, no matter.


    You forget others can see what we posted on those topics.

  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Dec 31, 2011 4:04 PM GMT
    You can certainly argue a position without making it personal, but I realize I do that myself with a few, like the Pain woman.
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    Dec 31, 2011 4:20 PM GMT
    The primary reason for this is that the right-wing has over the last 10-15 years built up an entire alternative media universe from Faux News to Talk Radio. You've no doubt seen the studies that prove that people who get their "news" from this universe are less informed about basic historical and political facts than even those who consume virtually no news.

    Sadly, we see the results of this consumption of alternative and, frankly, false media in the posts of right-wing members of RJ. Certainly, most media outlets have conscious or unconscious biases but Faux News and a lot of the right-wing media purposefully spread misinformation.

    How do you have a conversation with someone who thinks a 47-year-old woman who wears a size 8 dress is a "fat pig"???
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    Dec 31, 2011 4:58 PM GMT
    It's on the left side and the right side, Christian.

    The trouble is no one is willing to call a truce, shove aside past hurts and insults and start fresh, although one has made a valiant effort to, and you would probably drop down in a dead faint if I told you who.

    -Doug
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    Dec 31, 2011 5:02 PM GMT
    meninlove said It's on the left side and the right side, Christian.

    The trouble is no one is willing to call a truce, shove aside past hurts and insults and start fresh, although one has made a valiant effort to, and you would probably drop down in a dead faint if I told you who.

    -Doug


    No, Doug. it really isn't. If anything the corporate media in the US falls over backwards to appear "balanced." It's impossible to have a discussion about politics or the economy when your interlocutor is awash in false information.
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    Dec 31, 2011 5:09 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    meninlove said It's on the left side and the right side, Christian.

    The trouble is no one is willing to call a truce, shove aside past hurts and insults and start fresh, although one has made a valiant effort to, and you would probably drop down in a dead faint if I told you who.

    -Doug


    No, Doug. it really isn't. If anything the corporate media in the US falls over backwards to appear "balanced." It's impossible to have a discussion about politics or the economy when your interlocutor is awash in false information.



    Hmmm...interlocutors (which I'm going to assume means popular news source) are only that and nothing more. You have to look at the intent of the person constantly referring to a biased interlocutor to make their case, and explain you want the person's opinions and discussion, not the interlocutor's.



  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Dec 31, 2011 5:22 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    After wading in yesterday and trying to moderate/facilitate some civility yesterday, we're giving up. Both sides of the equation seem to enjoy slapping at each other, escalating, and generally being all nasty.

    Some get all lofty, but counter their supposed above-it-all attitude with little intensely personal superiority digs that set off firestorms.

    We've seen Michele Obama get slagged in the most personal ways and Romney as well.

    We've seen outright lies and tried to call the liars on them.

    There seems to be an awful lot of conflict oriented people here, and this is what gives them their endorphin rush - conflict.

    It ruins topics, creates hard feelings and topics/discussions get nowhere.
    All the topics keep dropping down to their lowest common denominator.

    What a colossal waste of time and energy and thwarting of exploring both sides of US politics.


    On that note, for what's it's worth,

    Happy New Year




    With all due respect, I appreciate what you are trying to do, as I am sure others do. That said, I'm not sure that RJ members really need or want any self-appointed forum referees.
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    Dec 31, 2011 5:51 PM GMT
    "That said, I'm not sure that RJ members really need or want any self-appointed forum referees."

    Our intent is to try learn from intelligent discussions free of personal acrimony. We are not appointing ourselves as anything; interesting subtle insult.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 31, 2011 5:58 PM GMT
    meninlove said "That said, I'm not sure that RJ members really need or want any self-appointed forum referees."

    Our intent is to try learn from intelligent discussions free of personal acrimony. We are not appointing ourselves as anything; interesting subtle insult.



    been there, done that, got the tee-shirt. gave up.
    And I tried really hard too.
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    Dec 31, 2011 6:00 PM GMT

    Thanks SB, we gave it our best shot and did indeed address a couple of the drive-by-ers. However we not respond with escalation, which ruffled a few feathers on both sides.

    Happy New Year to you!
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    Dec 31, 2011 6:02 PM GMT
    Upper_Cdn said
    meninlove said "That said, I'm not sure that RJ members really need or want any self-appointed forum referees."

    Our intent is to try learn from intelligent discussions free of personal acrimony. We are not appointing ourselves as anything; interesting subtle insult.



    been there, done that, got the tee-shirt. gave up.
    And I tried really hard too.


    Our success so far has been from sticking our fingers into live light sockets every ten minutes or so. icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif


    Happy New Year to you and your man!
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    Dec 31, 2011 6:08 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    meninlove said

    hmmmm......you're in the group mentioned, so just for that we may continue.

    Of course - Only thing I would point out, not that it would made any difference, is that your moderation was not balanced. You tended to favor and ignore all but the most glaring transgressions of one group, but again, no matter.


    I'll have to agree with this. MIL did really try to be reasonable though, but I think his centerline is quite a ways to the left side of spectrum. That said, he's certainly the most pleasant of the left leaners to chat with.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Dec 31, 2011 6:11 PM GMT
    meninlove said "That said, I'm not sure that RJ members really need or want any self-appointed forum referees."

    Our intent is to try learn from intelligent discussions free of personal acrimony. We are not appointing ourselves as anything; interesting subtle insult.




    I honestly didn't mean it as an insult...more of a not-so-subtle opinion that your often times biased approach to RJ hall monitoring isn't really necessary --- well-intentioned as it may be. We're all big boys here. Granted, these forums can often-times get over-heated, even darn right nasty. Dare I say that is also what makes them interesting and even entertaining? "If you can't take the heat..." as they say.

    Happy New Year to ALL!!!!!

    Todd
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    Dec 31, 2011 6:13 PM GMT
    Any politics board has its share of flame wars, baiting, insults, BS, tirades, ridicule, etc. Its the nature of the beast, and not a place for the thin skinned.

    Meninlove, since you're a peace maker, let me give you something to chew on. If a reality show put all the posters on here together, where opponents had to stick together to survive or achieve some common goal....I think you'd be amazed at how well we'd learn to get along. Its human nature.
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    Dec 31, 2011 6:18 PM GMT
    White4DarkerFL saidAny politics board has its share of flame wars, baiting, insults, BS, tirades, ridicule, etc. Its the nature of the beast, and not a place for the thin skinned.

    Meninlove, since you're a peace maker, let me give you something to chew on. If a reality show put all the posters on here together, where opponents had to stick together to survive or achieve some common goal....I think you'd be amazed at how well we'd learn to get along. Its human nature.


    Thanks kindly. Although, I wouldn't be amazed so much as have a sense of validation about what Bill and I think about the potential of this forum and its participants.

    I hope others will seriously think about this post of yours (reality show example) .
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 31, 2011 7:09 PM GMT
    To think I have had Aggressive follow me around trying to put his words in my mouth just to insight hate; freedom of speech fears him, thus must the truth too.

    I hope you tow guys do not feel you are above any of this, because I have endured your contempt.

    But how is all the hate here from the left any better than the ones they hate?
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    Dec 31, 2011 7:30 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    socalfitness said
    meninlove said

    hmmmm......you're in the group mentioned, so just for that we may continue.

    Of course - Only thing I would point out, not that it would made any difference, is that your moderation was not balanced. You tended to favor and ignore all but the most glaring transgressions of one group, but again, no matter.


    You forget others can see what we posted on those topics.



    Except for those of us who have the asshats blocked. We only see what they have to say when they are quoted.

    It's just politics. Nothing controversial.

    Love and hugs to both of you in BC!

    Alan
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    Dec 31, 2011 7:31 PM GMT
    Just another comment on your point.

    Compared to this site, another site has existed which sought members from varying political positions. The main entry requirement to the other site was that those whose ONLY involvement was to flame or throw bombs would not be included. That is not to suggest that those included were always angelic, but that at least they could and often did engage in reasonable discourse. What was very interesting was to see that some folks who had very antagonistic exchanges here were extremely cordial on the other site, even admitting when they were wrong on some point, which would seldom be seen here.

    If you consider that an experiment, what it showed to me was two things: 1) In a different environment that actively requested good behavior, it was shown by those capable of showing it, and 2) With many groups there are bad apples who are able to poison the atmosphere. When they are excluded, things change dramatically.
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    Dec 31, 2011 8:28 PM GMT
    Hey Alan, Happy New Year to you!!

    *big smooches*
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    Dec 31, 2011 8:30 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidJust another comment on your point.

    Compared to this site, another site has existed which sought members from varying political positions. The main entry requirement to the other site was that those whose ONLY involvement was to flame or throw bombs would not be included. That is not to suggest that those included were always angelic, but that at least they could and often did engage in reasonable discourse. What was very interesting was to see that some folks who had very antagonistic exchanges here were extremely cordial on the other site, even admitting when they were wrong on some point, which would seldom be seen here.

    If you consider that an experiment, what it showed to me was two things: 1) In a different environment that actively requested good behavior, it was shown by those capable of showing it, and 2) With many groups there are bad apples who are able to poison the atmosphere. When they are excluded, things change dramatically.

    It was also done by invitation only, something not part of RJ and would never be. Here there's the huge issue ( and valid one) of moderation vs free speech vs voluntary self checking.