Gay in your peripheral vision

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    Jan 01, 2012 6:30 PM GMT
    We, the gays, are everywhere. We are not a majority, but we are not an isolated group of freaks. Our attraction to men is not a choice, and our actions of intimacy are not unnatural. Some of us are bright and flashy, but many more wouldn't stand out at any rock concert. Sure, we often like the arts, fine food, and musicals, but we can also fight, build, and chop wood with the best.

    I am happily single. My career aspirations are much too demanding for me to have time to give another person the attention they deserve. On the other hand, I'm tired of people not being okay with the concept of gay people. Despite the risks of having my face pummeled in I want to show that there is nothing wrong with what I'm doing. My mom thinks I'm going to hell. I'd love to show her and the rest of the world that my (or anyone else's) relationship with another man can bring great things to a community. But more than that, I want them to know that we exist, we are here, and they can learn to deal with it.


    Rainbow flag waving is done for today.
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    Jan 01, 2012 7:54 PM GMT
    Hey man great posticon_biggrin.gif
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    Jan 01, 2012 8:03 PM GMT
    The only people who go to hell are those who tell others they will be going there.
  • dancedancekj

    Posts: 1761

    Jan 01, 2012 8:11 PM GMT
    Well said icon_smile.gif
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    Jan 01, 2012 8:19 PM GMT
    Good post, it's great to be gay.

    I actually can't imagine myself any other way and I love making people rethink their stereotypes.

    It's also good to be tall as nobody is going to mess with me. And if they do that's where self defense training comes in handy. icon_wink.gif
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    Jan 01, 2012 10:24 PM GMT
    I hope your Mom comes around because she has quite an amazing son.
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    Jan 01, 2012 10:35 PM GMT
    A refreshing change from a more common attitude I hear among gays. "I'm not planning on getting married, so I don't care about gay marriage issues, and don't vote for gay marriage." "Gay civil rights don't affect me where I live, and I'm mostly closeted anyway, so that's something I don't care about." "Being gay isn't really what I'm about, so I keep that part of my life quiet, I don't want that hassle."

    Benjamin Franklin said to the other Revolutionary Founders of the USA: "We must all hang together, or we will all hang separately." Gay lack of cohesion and failing to have common shared goals is our greatest weakness and vulnerability. Hiding ourselves from the rest of the world doesn't really protect us, instead it makes us powerless against our enemies.
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    Jan 01, 2012 10:47 PM GMT
    Trollileo said
    Haaretz saidThe only people who go to hell are those who tell others they will be going there.
    Agreed.


    +1
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    Jan 01, 2012 11:01 PM GMT
    Let the Gay Church say "Amen".

    Turn to your neighbor and say neighbor.. (neighbor). I'm happy that you're here. (I'm happy that you're here.) I'm happy.. (I'm happy) That you're my brother/sister through LGBT. (I'm happy that you're my brother/sister through LGBT)
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    Jan 01, 2012 11:16 PM GMT
    Ok. -

    1)Best Post of the year - so far...

    2) Best Abs of the year - so far...

    Congratulations!!!
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    Jan 02, 2012 12:55 AM GMT
    great post...great responses...
  • beaujangle

    Posts: 1701

    Jan 02, 2012 1:00 AM GMT
    This is simply articulate; well said!

    Of course I couldn't help but to look at your profile. Besides nice pictures of your handsome face with blond hair and a hot body, I'm impressed with your personality. I see outer and inner beauty!
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    Jan 02, 2012 1:06 AM GMT
    RumbleStud saidWe, the gays, are everywhere. We are not a majority, but we are not an isolated group of freaks. Our attraction to men is not a choice, and our actions of intimacy are not unnatural. Some of us are bright and flashy, but many more wouldn't stand out at any rock concert. Sure, we often like the arts, fine food, and musicals, but we can also fight, build, and chop wood with the best.

    I am happily single. My career aspirations are much too demanding for me to have time to give another person the attention they deserve. On the other hand, I'm tired of people not being okay with the concept of gay people. Despite the risks of having my face pummeled in I want to show that there is nothing wrong with what I'm doing. My mom thinks I'm going to hell. I'd love to show her and the rest of the world that my (or anyone else's) relationship with another man can bring great things to a community. But more than that, I want them to know that we exist, we are here, and they can learn to deal with it.


    Rainbow flag waving is done for today.


    Point out the contributions of guys like Newton, Da Vinci, Turing, etc! Modern life wouldn't exist without us! If she gets biblical ask her whom Jesus was married to or about King David's relationship with Jonathan!
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    Jan 02, 2012 1:28 AM GMT
    Haaretz saidThe only people who go to hell are those who tell others they will be going there.


    +1
    And Duke basketball fans.
  • CAtoFL

    Posts: 834

    Jan 02, 2012 1:38 AM GMT
    Art_Deco saidA refreshing change from a more common attitude I hear among gays. "I'm not planning on getting married, so I don't care about gay marriage issues, and don't vote for gay marriage." "Gay civil rights don't affect me where I live, and I'm mostly closeted anyway, so that's something I don't care about." "Being gay isn't really what I'm about, so I keep that part of my life quiet, I don't want that hassle."

    Benjamin Franklin said to the other Revolutionary Founders of the USA: "We must all hang together, or we will all hang separately." Gay lack of cohesion and failing to have common shared goals is our greatest weakness and vulnerability. Hiding ourselves from the rest of the world doesn't really protect us, instead it makes us powerless against our enemies.


    Honestly, wtf are you talking about? You didn't come out until you were in your fifties (or sixties)?

    Where were you when we were given the news that a new gay cancer had been discovered that was probably being caused by poppers (yeah, that's the first news we got)? Oh, that's right ... hiding in your closet.

    Where were you when I left my corporate job to work in the gay community in the 80s? Oh yeah ... hiding in the closet.

    Where were you when I joined two friends to sew a panel of the AIDS quilt to memorialize my best friend? Right ... in the closet. Where were you when I sewed two more panels for those friends by myself? Closet.

    Where were you when we demonstrated against politicians who thought it was okay to fire us simply because we were gay? I know you love name dropping, so where were you when we fought Sonny Bono at each City Council meeting because he agreed that being gay was a reasonable cause for dismissal? Where were you the night I brought my "gay employers, fire your straight employees for being straight" sign to a City Council meeting? You missed those meetings because, you guessed it, you were in the closet.

    Where were you when we were raising millions for AIDS during the 80s when our President wouldn't even acknowledge it existed? Oh yeah ... the closet. Where were you when we created Projects to pay for necessities for HIV Positive people who had no other resources? The closet.

    Where were you when my first friend died of AIDS when his boyfriend had to give him a merciful overdose of medicine to do it? The closet. Where were you the night I drove five and a half hours roundtrip to hold the hand of a hospitalized friend on the day he died? Closet.

    Let me put this in terms for you that you can understand - YOU are the guy who never serves a day in the military in his life, but goes on eBay and buys the Purple Heart to wear to his high school reunion. You are a total fraud who never served a day when we needed every hand.

    I don't mind you coming decades late to the party - I really don't. But don't you act for one damned minute that the party is being thrown in your honor. You did NOTHING for decades for the gay commmunity and your pretentious BS now is beyond insanely disingenuous. Good people died while you hid in your closet in fear. RumbleStud's post shows more courage than you were able to muster for decades. And your pompous nonsense does nothing but turn the stomach of people who lived the life you'll only ever be able to talk about. You lived your life as a coward. Accept that.

    Sorry if this seems rough. A bunch of us went through old scrapbooks and talked about the scourge we LIVED THROUGH last night. Old acquaintances will not be forgot. There were amazing people lost. You dishonor them with your talking about 'cohesion' when all you did was live your life in hiding.
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    Jan 02, 2012 1:55 AM GMT
    I hope everyone here can appreciate what those have done before them. It took a great amount of courage and conviction, which is something that not everyone possesses at all points in his or her life. I believe it best to support your community now in as many ways as possible. I have personally changed some friends' minds on what it means to be gay, and I'm not going to hide it from anyone. Maybe that way, I can lead a life that means something to more people.
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    Jan 02, 2012 2:36 AM GMT
    CAtoFL saidI don't mind you coming decades late to the party - I really don't.

    Actually you do mind. This is your exclusive claim to fame, isn't it, that you don't want to relinquish? I have never heard such hate-filled vitriol in all my life, made worse by a laundry list of lies & slanders regarding me. I don't have any idea where you got your notions, but you clearly haven't read or comprehended any of the things I've written about myself here.

    Was that a subtle dig you made, to use the false claim to military service analogy? I did serve my country, for 25 years. Which contributed to my self-denial, and inability to recognize my own orientation. I wasn't "hiding" from anything nor closeted, I just didn't know.

    And within a few months of retiring in 1994 at 45 (not decades after HIV became an epidemic as you wrote, nor in my 50s or 60s) and having a chance to reevaluate my life out of uniform, I realized my terrible error about my orientation. I think that's a good story to share with other late bloomers, to help them finally come out, and many have confirmed to me their own situation was just like mine.

    You make it sound like my living straight was a choice. It was a mistake made out of ignorance. As soon as I understood that I corrected it, ASAP. And became active in gay charities, especially HIV/AIDS, that continues to this day.

    What else more could I do? Turn back the clock? Do you hate every late bloomer? Is the window of opportunity to be gay only in your teen years, and if you miss it, you're forever barred from being gay? Evidently that's your model, with you setting the membership rules like joining a fraternity. Well sorry, I'm gay with or without your permission. And I also help our community, with or without your approval.

    As for tragedies, you apparently missed how my partner died of AIDS, literally in my arms. And the struggle I had to keep him alive a few times at home, clear his mouth and give him mouth-to-mouth when he was choking on his own blood, despite the risk that meant to me.

    Yeah, I'm some coward as you say. And I accepted him as my partner despite knowing he had HIV. How many other negative gay men would even consider that? And yet I'm not good enough for your gay community? Nor to share my experiences as a late bloomer, with a similar gay demographic to myself that's a lot larger than I think you realize.

    I think it's your own attitude that needs to be reexamined. I was taught in the Army to lead by example. Sorry if you can't understand that concept, because keeping your mouth shut about your actions inspires no one, and keeps your own efforts solitary and less effective.

    And if you have done all those things yourself then you should talk about them. That's the way to encourage others, to make one pair of hands into many. As I have been doing in the gay community for 15 years, not the day I joined this site as you erroneously imply. So that maybe you should get off your own high horse, and give more thought to this community than to your own pride.
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    Jan 02, 2012 2:44 AM GMT
    Haaretz saidThe only people who go to hell are those who tell others they will be going there.
    Boy you better repent! Saying that shit will send your fucking ass to hell.
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    Jan 02, 2012 2:52 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    CAtoFL saidI don't mind you coming decades late to the party - I really don't.

    Actually you do mind. This is your exclusive claim to fame, isn't it, that you don't want to relinquish? I have never heard such hate-filled vitriol in all my life, made worse by a laundry list of lies & slanders regarding me. I don't have any idea where you got your notions, but you clearly haven't read or comprehended any of the things I've written about myself here.

    Was that a subtle dig you made, to use the false claim to military service analogy? I did serve my country, for 25 years. Which contributed to my self-denial, and inability to recognize my own orientation. I wasn't "hiding" from anything nor closeted, I just didn't know.

    And within a few months of retiring in 1994 (not decades after HIV became an epidemic as you wrote) and having a chance to reevaluate my life out of uniform, I realized my terrible error about my orientation. I think that's a good story to sure with other late bloomers, to help them finally come out, and many have confirmed to me their own situation was just like mine.

    You make it sound like my living straight was a choice. It was a mistake made out of ignorance. As soon as I understood that I corrected it, ASAP. And became active in gay charities, especially HIV/AIDS, that continues to this day.

    What else more could I do? Turn back the clock? Do you hate every late bloomer? Is the window of opportunity to be gay only in your teen years, a

    nd if you miss it, you're forever barred from being gay? Evidently that's your model, with you setting the membership rules like joining a fraternity. Well sorry, I'm gay with or without your permission. And I also help our community, with or without your approval.





    KUDOS TO YOU! Don't let anyone else judge you!

    As for tragedies, you apparently missed how my partner died of AIDS, literally in my arms. And the struggle I had to keep him alive a few times at home, clear his mouth and give him mouth-to-mouth when he was choking on his own blood, despite the risk that meant to me.

    Yeah, I'm some coward as you say. And I accepted him as my partner despite knowing he had HIV. How many other gay men would even consider that? And yet I'm not good enough for your gay community? Nor to share my experiences as a late bloomer, with a similar gay demographic that's a lot larger than I think you realize.

    I think it's your own attitude that needs to be reexamined. I was taught in the Army to lead by example. Sorry if you can't understand that concept, because keeping your mouth shut about your actions inspires no one, and keeps your own efforts solitary and less effective.

    And if you have done all those things yourself then you should talk about them. That's the way to encourage others, to make one pair of hands into many. As I have been doing in the gay community for 15 years, not the day I joined this site as you erroneously imply. So that maybe you should get off your own high horse, and give more thought to this community than to your own pride.
  • CAtoFL

    Posts: 834

    Jan 02, 2012 4:18 AM GMT
    Really? This again? I've seen you use this tactic before - an obvious misstatement of someone's point so that you can take horrified exception to it and play the martyr (and hopefully pick up supporting posts from your 'friends'). My post has absolutely NOTHING to do with late bloomers. I've counseled many of them. Your misstatement play is such a high school debating team tactic that it's beneath you.

    Let me state this again so that you get it - I do not have a problem with whatever age at which you came out (which seems to vary by the chronology of your posts and, I'm sure, will soon be 25).

    But that doesn't change the fact that you are a complete hypocrite. But don't take my word for it, read your own:

    You initially wrote: "A refreshing change from a more common attitude I hear among gays. "I'm not planning on getting married, so I don't care about gay marriage issues, and don't vote for gay marriage." "Gay civil rights don't affect me where I live, and I'm mostly closeted anyway, so that's something I don't care about." "Being gay isn't really what I'm about, so I keep that part of my life quiet, I don't want that hassle.'"

    Then you wrote:
    "You make it sound like my living straight was a choice" ... "What else more could I do?". In fact, and again by your own words, YOU were mostly closeted until the mid 90s and YOU have laid no claim to doing anything for our community during our most trying decade of the 80s. I guess, in your own words, you were "keeping that part of [your] life quiet" since you just didn't "want that hassle".

    Yes, "we must all hang together, or we will all hang separately", but that's laughable coming from you. Like anyone and everyone else who was gay in the 80s, you had a choice to be a "cohesive" part of the gay community - and you passed us by. Many other people gave up MUCH more than you would've to be part of that community, btw. Many ended up giving their lives. Your 'sacrifice' would've been absolutely irrelevant by comparison.

    You need to accept the reality of your situation. You hid in the closet for so long that most guys on here in their 40s have YEARS more gay experience under their belt than you have. This does NOT make you someone to whom I look for to advice on how to be a part of the gay community - despite the pomposity with which you present your posts. And the fact that you hid when we needed every hand yet make a post sounding a gay rallying cry makes you a total hypocrite. Sorry if that hurts, but as you say, you can't "turn back the clock".

    All your post is saying is "heed the rallying cry! I didn't, but you should".
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    Jan 02, 2012 4:38 AM GMT
    CAtoFL saidReally? This again? I've seen you use this tactic before - an obvious misstatement of someone's point so that you can take horrified exception to it and play the martyr (and hopefully pick up supporting posts from your 'friends'). My post has absolutely NOTHING to do with late bloomers. I've counseled many of them. Your misstatement play is such a high school debating team tactic that it's beneath you.

    Let me state this again so that you get it - I do not have a problem with whatever age at which you came out (which seems to vary by the chronology of your posts and, I'm sure, will soon be 25).

    But that doesn't change the fact that you are a complete hypocrite. But don't take my word for it, read your own:

    You initially wrote: "A refreshing change from a more common attitude I hear among gays. "I'm not planning on getting married, so I don't care about gay marriage issues, and don't vote for gay marriage." "Gay civil rights don't affect me where I live, and I'm mostly closeted anyway, so that's something I don't care about." "Being gay isn't really what I'm about, so I keep that part of my life quiet, I don't want that hassle.'"

    Then you wrote:
    "You make it sound like my living straight was a choice" ... "What else more could I do?". In fact, and again by your own words, YOU were mostly closeted until the mid 90s and YOU have laid no claim to doing anything for our community during our most trying decade of the 80s. I guess, in your own words, you were "keeping that part of [your] life quiet" since you just didn't "want that hassle".

    Yes, "we must all hang together, or we will all hang separately", but that's laughable coming from you. Like anyone and everyone else who was gay in the 80s, you had a choice to be a "cohesive" part of the gay community - and you passed us by. Many other people gave up MUCH more than you would've to be part of that community, btw. Many ended up giving their lives. Your 'sacrifice' would've been absolutely irrelevant by comparison.

    You need to accept the reality of your situation. You hid in the closet for so long that most guys on here in their 40s have YEARS more gay experience under their belt than you have. This does NOT make you someone to whom I look for to advice on how to be a part of the gay community - despite the pomposity with which you present your posts. And the fact that you hid when we needed every hand yet make a post sounding a gay rallying cry makes you a total hypocrite. Sorry if that hurts, but as you say, you can't "turn back the clock".

    All your post is saying is "heed the rallying cry! I didn't, but you should".

    Evidently anyone born since the 1990s is worthless in your view. But as for your slanders, let's take:

    "Let me state this again so that you get it - I do not have a problem with whatever age at which you came out (which seems to vary by the chronology of your posts and, I'm sure, will soon be 25).

    Please quote us an example of anything I ever posted (and you have over 20,000 choices), where I said the age I came out was anything other than late 45, a few months before I turned 46. In fact, I've stated the exact day many times: Friday, March 17, 1995. I was born in 1949. Do the math.

    Now until you can provide that example, I'll hold that the rest of your inflammatory comments about me are equally false. And so I therefore see no reason to address them further. BTW, don't forget to get your exclusive rights to the gay rights movements copyrighted. Someone else besides me might also try to do something for the gay community or comment about it, and step on your toes.
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    Jan 03, 2012 1:16 AM GMT
    Thank you for taking a thread that was meant to share good things and strong convictions and turning it into an overly verbose attack. I sincerely appreciate it.

    Perhaps the "HATE" thread would have been more appropriate.
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    Jan 03, 2012 1:18 AM GMT
    RumbleStud saidWe, the gays, are everywhere. We are not a majority, but we are not an isolated group of freaks. Our attraction to men is not a choice, and our actions of intimacy are not unnatural. Some of us are bright and flashy, but many more wouldn't stand out at any rock concert. Sure, we often like the arts, fine food, and musicals, but we can also fight, build, and chop wood with the best.

    I am happily single. My career aspirations are much too demanding for me to have time to give another person the attention they deserve. On the other hand, I'm tired of people not being okay with the concept of gay people. Despite the risks of having my face pummeled in I want to show that there is nothing wrong with what I'm doing. My mom thinks I'm going to hell. I'd love to show her and the rest of the world that my (or anyone else's) relationship with another man can bring great things to a community. But more than that, I want them to know that we exist, we are here, and they can learn to deal with it.


    Rainbow flag waving is done for today.
    Tell yer mom to call me.. I'll set her 'straight'..............
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    Jan 03, 2012 1:29 AM GMT
    RumbleStud saidThank you for taking a thread that was meant to share good things and strong convictions and turning it into an overly verbose attack. I sincerely appreciate it.

    Perhaps the "HATE" thread would have been more appropriate.
    Nah.. you stay still... You're still the object here!

    One poster got his panties twisted up and attacked.. he got publicly hung whether he reads it or not.. anyway! Isnt it refreshing to beat your chest and think yo are ok and not alone? You8 bet! Beat that chest! its awesome..

    Your mom will see your success and will have to deal with that however she does.. its her issue not yours!
  • vintovka

    Posts: 588

    Jan 03, 2012 1:40 AM GMT
    To the O.P. much love, brother. The fight is far from over and you don't need to take any shit from anyone.

    Those of us who have fought for years should be grateful for a new generation that has some fight in it. It's a bit silly to chastise a 20-something for not fighting alongside us in 1985 or 1991. When I was in Act Up, the O.P. was about 3, so I don't think he can be blamed for not being there.

    The battle we faced when we were young is not the battle they face today, but it's the same war.