divorced/kid/not out

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    Jan 05, 2012 10:45 AM GMT
    Divorced single parent with 13 year old daughter not out but want to come out
    Anyone dealing with the same want to talk
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    Jan 05, 2012 1:17 PM GMT
    Been going through the process for the past few months. Came out to my wife, and some of our key friends. Working through details of the divorce at the moment. Got a 12 yrs old daughter and a 14th yrs old son. Telling them about divorce this month, once they are done with midterms. Decided to hold off on coming out to them. Drop me a line. Can't say I've figured anything out, but would be happy to talk.
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    Jan 05, 2012 3:28 PM GMT
    I would love to hear what you guys think too. Im still married, contemplating divorce too. Had decided to just stay in it for the kids (two; 4 & 1 yrs). Not quite sure how I can even address it with her. Shes a great person and I dont want to hurt her.
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    Jan 05, 2012 4:13 PM GMT
    For Callen not the OP:

    I agree with a lot of what amoonhawk has to say. For me there were two pivotal points. First and foremost I had always known I was gay but for religious reasons did not act on it. And many closest to me have known this since I was in my early 20s. The first pivotal point happen a few years back, when the desire to actually bond with another man began to emerge in my emotional makeup. It was no longer simply the desire for sexual contact. The 2nd occurred last Jan. when I met a guy that I really connected with (turns out he was not gay) and I went away with him for the weekend. It was the first time I ever attempt to cheat on my wife. I know men cheat all the time, but the moment you are willing to compromise fidelity in a marriage, you have no right to be married. As hard as it was coming out to my wife and starting the process of dismantling our marriage, it would have been worse to do so in the midst of an affair, or because I wanted to leave her for another person. I really believe this has helped keep the breakup amicable as the focus is that I am gay and no that I am with someone else. As for the kids, you are fortunate that they are very young and have not concept about sexuality. As my are in their early teens, it feels a bit more complicated. Hence my reluctance at present to come out to them. Best of luck on your journey.
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    Jan 05, 2012 4:16 PM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidI don't want to judge, however, I would like to point out that staying in a relationship with a woman, when you know you are gay, is really unfair to not only yourself, but also to the woman you married. Guys make friends through life, but that doesn't mean we marry them all, and I think maybe that is what may have happened to you men. You made a friend and you thought you could change. Staying married, does not allow either of you to move on with your lives now while there is still time, which is more unfair to the marriage partner you choose, because you are the one pulling the strings. As for the kids, people divorce all the time and kids survive, besides what life long lesson to do you want to give them by staying married? That it is okay to live a lie? In the long run the lie is going to catch up and everyone is going to be bitter. If the kids are really young they are not going to go through the trauma and confusion that they would go through later in life. If you know you are gay, and you know it ... the right thing is to get a divorce so that everyone can move on with their lives in the right direction and not live in a lie.


    Obviously these guys are at least starting to face all that because here they are discussing it. I've had long term relationships break up having nothing to do with sexuality. I've posted before that a cousin recently destroyed our relationship over her new age religion, of all the stupid fucking things. Another friend did something similar just as she has destroyed every friendship she ever had in her life. And that after I put in 20 years with the friend and 50 years with the cousin.

    Move on? Forget it. Well, yeah, you do to some extent. But everyone winds up taking their baggage with them. And the only people who don't have baggage and those who did not live life. So you can't put it all on these guys that they are holding someone else back from going on with their lives. Because even if they divorce, even if they never see their current mates again, they will always be in each other's lives through their children and in each other's minds through their memories.

    As well, it might not even mean divorce if the two people still love each other and can work with, for instance, an open relationship. So, sorry, as I like a lot of things I've read you say, but I think it is wrong to dismiss their issue as move on, move along, no loitering allowed.
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    Jan 05, 2012 4:23 PM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidI don't want to judge, however, I would like to point out that staying in a relationship with a woman, when you know you are gay, is really unfair to not only yourself, but also to the woman you married. Guys make friends through life, but that doesn't mean we marry them all, and I think maybe that is what may have happened to you men. You made a friend and you thought you could change. Staying married, does not allow either of you to move on with your lives now while there is still time, which is more unfair to the marriage partner you choose, because you are the one pulling the strings. As for the kids, people divorce all the time and kids survive, besides what life long lesson to do you want to give them by staying married? That it is okay to live a lie? In the long run the lie is going to catch up and everyone is going to be bitter. If the kids are really young they are not going to go through the trauma and confusion that they would go through later in life. If you know you are gay, and you know it ... the right thing is to get a divorce so that everyone can move on with their lives in the right direction and not live in a lie.


    But rushing into it is just as damaging, and very selfish. It seems to me that these guys are all trying to figure out HOW to do it, not whether they should.

    I did all of this last year and if I had to give you any advice, it is this: DONT RUSH!! GO SLOW!!! Coming out is a process and working through this slowly will help both you and your wife come to terms with it in healthy and consructive ways.

    I am not seperated, my wife is dating a great guy and she and I are best friends. Both of our children know, and truly dont care. (Who wants to know anything about their dad's sex life anyway??? Seriously... yuck... )

    I am so happy and feel very blessed. GO SLOW!! There is no magic to this and every situation is different. But if you try to rush it then the feelings will not have time to catch up to reality.

    My wife and I had the discussion in November, 2010. We haven't filed for divorce YET, but we are moving closer to it and the slow pace means that we are working TOGETHER at making lives apart. We are best friends and I hope always will be.

    TAKE YOUR TIME!!
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    Jan 05, 2012 4:27 PM GMT
    TriAthInCA said... when the desire to actually bond with another man began to emerge in my emotional makeup. It was no longer simply the desire for sexual contact....


    That's a really interesting distinction in how coming to accept your own sexuality might effect a closeted man. It shows integrity at an endemic level, not just you honoring your relationship by acknowledging your new found acceptance of yourself, but in how deeply you are becoming aware that this is not just about the surface sex activity that we participate in with others but about natural orientation we find within ourselves.

    As I figured it out early in life, I think it will always seem incredible to me that religious belief could keep you from that but knowing this as I do from stories I hear, I think it will always make me at least a little angry with religion, that God would seek to interfere with nature.
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    Jan 05, 2012 4:32 PM GMT
    So true Ant my friend, none of us leaves life unscathed. I prefer to call mine wounds instead of baggage. Wounds heal, baggage is exhausting.

    As to the unfairness, there is truth in what AMoonHawk has to say, although it is not the complete picture. I would be the first to tell you that I have felt much pain over the fact that I could not bond to my wife the way I felt a husband should bond with a mate. At the same time, we have had a wonderful marriage (except perhaps in the bedroom). So I temper what AMoonHawk has to say with the fact that their has been a lot of love in our marriage and my final act of love for my wife is to at long last let her see the whole of me. And amazingly enough she still loves me. Perhaps the most painful part of this whole process.
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    Jan 05, 2012 4:34 PM GMT
    Everyone here comes to this place through a different path and just because your conception of what it is to be precludes you from having a meaningful and full relationship with a woman does not make it true for all others.
    Ask yourself this. If you are able to love two different men at different points in your life and your first love was not some sort of a sham...then what makes you think another person can not love a woman and then a man?
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    Jan 05, 2012 4:37 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    TriAthInCA said... when the desire to actually bond with another man began to emerge in my emotional makeup. It was no longer simply the desire for sexual contact....


    That's a really interesting distinction in how coming to accept your own sexuality might effect a closeted man. It shows integrity at an endemic level, not just you honoring your relationship by acknowledging your new found acceptance of yourself, but in how deeply you are becoming aware that this is not just about the surface sex activity that we participate in with others but about natural orientation we find within ourselves.

    As I figured it out early in life, I think it will always seem incredible to me that religious belief could keep you from that but knowing this as I do from stories I hear, I think it will always make me at least a little angry with religion, that God would seek to interfere with nature.


    I have at long last come to blame religion and not God, but completely agree with the anger. I think that in my own psyche, as long as I could keep it all about sex, and not intimacy or relationship, it seemed like something worthy to oppose. Almost like a sexual addiction.
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    Jan 05, 2012 4:40 PM GMT
    Been there and done that too. Married over 25 years and with 3 kids. Finally went to thereapy and itt helped me sure to deal with bein G-A-Y....
    I was scared to even say it aloud. Got the divorce and that was hardest on the kids. Came out to kids and THEN to ex- about 1 1/2 years ago.....the kids are happy I am happy and were hurt that I could have thought anything different. They explained that the divorce affected them and their lives but my being gay and coming out made them happy for me. They continue to be very supportive of me and my partner now and my ex- is likewise pleasent and this is the story of a 2000's Modern Family for sure. I am very blessed that everyone has been so great....I know it is now always that way but people we love are alot more accepting then we fear.....gotta give them the chance when you think the timing is correct. See therapy if it is affordable and possible .....If not, just think it out but do not deny yourself who you are and whatever the life you want to lead......the kids will always love you...the ex- may be a great bonus but it truly is about you and the kids and your life moving foward. As tthe other great rj's have said, feel free to contact...always glad to pass on any insight I may have gained.....good luck jhnjgld and continurd good luck to my buddy TriAthlnCA...tty all soon :-)
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    Jan 05, 2012 4:48 PM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidI think I understand what you mean by "DONT RUSH!! GO SLOW!!!", however, this should not a process over a period of years. You need to start ASAP to start facing facts and work on bringing them into light. Of course it is your life, so I suppose you can keep hidden as long as you like, men (and women) have done it very successfully throughout the centuries. And while you still maybe be able to get through each day living the life of 'married with children', mentally you are the one that is going to suffer over the long run, and maybe eventually you can train yourself to hate all things gay. But what if your child or your grand child is gay, is that the future you want for them?


    We get there at different rates, and for some of us it takes years. There is so much more to our lives then just our sexuality. There were many great things in my marriage, and it was not until my awakening to the desire for greater intimacy with a man, that the balance of the scale was tilted. Unfortunately, that emotional development took years to occur in me.

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    Jan 05, 2012 4:48 PM GMT
    Alpha_Muscle said
    AMoonHawk saidDONT RUSH!! GO SLOW!!! Coming out is a process and working through this slowly will help both you and your wife come to terms with it in healthy and consructive ways.

    I am so happy and feel very blessed. GO SLOW!! There is no magic to this and every situation is different. But if you try to rush it then the feelings will not have time to catch up to reality.

    My wife and I had the discussion in November, 2010. We haven't filed for divorce YET, but we are moving closer to it and the slow pace means that we are working TOGETHER at making lives apart. We are best friends and I hope always will be.

    TAKE YOUR TIME!!


    This.

    And I'll add this. It's inevitable that things we keep secret make us feel like freaks. Being gay while married to a woman is one of those things. But in fact, this doesn't make you a freak at all. There are hundreds of guys dealing with the same thing. And based on my experience, connecting and building a truly understanding support network with them is one of the healthiest things you can do for yourself and your family.

    There's probably a support group near you for gay and bi married men in straight marriages. Here's a recommended link to GLBT support organizations in Vancouver. Inquire with a few of them.

    Welcome to the club, and good luck!
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    Jan 05, 2012 4:48 PM GMT
    TriAthInCA saidSo true Ant my friend, none of us leaves life unscathed. I prefer to call mine wounds instead of baggage. Wounds heal, baggage is exhausting.

    As to the unfairness, there is truth in what AMoonHawk has to say, although it is not the complete picture. I would be the first to tell you that I have felt much pain over the fact that I could not bond to my wife the way I felt a husband should bond with a mate. At the same time, we have had a wonderful marriage (except perhaps in the bedroom). So I temper what AMoonHawk has to say with the fact that their has been a lot of love in our marriage and my final act of love for my wife is to at long last let her see the whole of me. And amazingly enough she still loves me. Perhaps the most painful part of this whole process.


    Baggage can be packed neatly, Wounds leave scars. Pick your poison or pick your metaphor, just don't pick the wrong bags and don't pick at your scabs.

    Yes, there does seem some unfairness but even that has to be questioned. Because for all we know, the wives were closeted fag hags.

    Point being, people hook up with others for their own needs. The friends that I recently lost, I lost at a time when I was super depressed from all the deaths I experienced. These were needy people who depended on me. And I probably became such close friends with them because I'm good at that and it makes me feel good to help others.But when I wasn't able to be there for them, they did terrible things not just to me, but to us.

    So it isn't that they completely screwed me, though they did, because I broke that contract too, even though the courts would side with me.

    Even though you guys are coming out now, you still had all the qualities that your wives were looking for when they fell in love with you. Blame is not a one way street. This street is shared.
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    Jan 05, 2012 4:54 PM GMT
    TriAthInCA saidI have at long last come to blame religion and not God,...


    Sorry for the misunderstanding, just waxing poetic, as I tend to do.
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    Jan 05, 2012 4:58 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]johnjgld said[/cite]Divorced single parent with 13 year old daughter not out but want to come out
    Anyone dealing with the same want to talk

    Don't be hard on yourself. Contrary to our fantasies about relationships nothing lasts forever and being gay or needing to be gay is no different than a zillion other changes that occur in a marriage as time proceeds. Kids today don't think being gay is a big deal. Problems that we anticipate with this issue are mostly in our own heads.
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    Jan 05, 2012 5:01 PM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidI think I understand what you mean by "DONT RUSH!! GO SLOW!!!", however, this should not a process over a period of years. You need to start ASAP to start facing facts and work on bringing them into light. Of course it is your life, so I suppose you can keep hidden as long as you like, men (and women) have done it very successfully throughout the centuries. And while you still maybe be able to get through each day living the life of 'married with children', mentally you are the one that is going to suffer over the long run, and maybe eventually you can train yourself to hate all things gay. But what if your child or your grand child is gay, is that the future you want for them?

    As to open relationships? Well, that would be both your choice, but why are you both hanging in there for an open relationship? Is it because someone needs to be financially supported? You feel so close that you don't want to loose that relationship? And what about the kids, how does that play in their mental and emotional stability, both in the short and the long term?


    Dude, I am afraid you are missing the point. YOu act like they want to stay hidden or are afraid to come out, but I dont get that at all. I think they WANT to do it but are looking for the healthiest way to do it.

    And why shouldn't the process take years? I was married for 23 years... I should dismantle that in a few months? Why.... so I can get married? Yeah, that is illegal. So when I say "take your time" I dont mean you shouldn't start the process, but go to the low hanging fruit first. Are you really, really close and supported by your siblings? Tell them first. Create a team of allies around you. I knew that my wife would be supportive as long as she knew that I would be true to my financial obligations and she wasn't going to be thrown out on the street. For me, the process is taking a long time because of the financial side of it, not the emotional. But taking our time has made the emotional impact MUCH MUCH lighter.

    Right now I am happier than I have ever been in my life. I have a closer relationship with God than I ever have and I am allowing him to love me for the first time. I like myself, probably for the first time in my life. And my family is seeing and getting to know the WHOLE me. I have a long way to go, but I have come a long way as well.
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    Jan 05, 2012 5:06 PM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidI think I understand what you mean by "DONT RUSH!! GO SLOW!!!", however, this should not a process over a period of years. You need to start ASAP to start facing facts and work on bringing them into light. Of course it is your life, so I suppose you can keep hidden as long as you like, men (and women) have done it very successfully throughout the centuries. And while you still maybe be able to get through each day living the life of 'married with children', mentally you are the one that is going to suffer over the long run, and maybe eventually you can train yourself to hate all things gay. But what if your child or your grand child is gay, is that the future you want for them?

    As to open relationships? Well, that would be both your choice, but why are you both hanging in there for an open relationship? Is it because someone needs to be financially supported? You feel so close that you don't want to loose that relationship? And what about the kids, how does that play in their mental and emotional stability, both in the short and the long term?


    I bought up the open relationship as an option as I do not instinctively attach negativity to anything nonmonamous. We all decide what is important to us for our own various reasons, each as valid to ourselves as other reasons are to other people. That's kind of what being nonjudgmental is about.

    As to being "not a process over a period of years", unless one goes into denial, or unless one is able to stop thinking about a thing, this could be a process that lasts a lifetime. Have you ever competely stopped thinking about every one of your past relationships, with families, with friends, with the dead even? You are not still coming to terms with things in your own mind? Even when you think you've got it all figured out, don't those issued pop up every so often? Then why rush a process which is not finite?

    It's not as if the past will be going away any time soon.
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    Jan 05, 2012 5:11 PM GMT
    AMoonHawk said
    TriAthInCA said
    AMoonHawk saidI think I understand what you mean by "DONT RUSH!! GO SLOW!!!", however, this should not a process over a period of years. You need to start ASAP to start facing facts and work on bringing them into light. Of course it is your life, so I suppose you can keep hidden as long as you like, men (and women) have done it very successfully throughout the centuries. And while you still maybe be able to get through each day living the life of 'married with children', mentally you are the one that is going to suffer over the long run, and maybe eventually you can train yourself to hate all things gay. But what if your child or your grand child is gay, is that the future you want for them?


    We get there at different rates, and for some of us it takes years. There is so much more to our lives then just our sexuality. There were many great things in my marriage, and it was not until my awakening to the desire for greater intimacy with a man, that the balance of the scale was tilted. Unfortunately, that emotional development took years to occur in me.



    Taking years is just selfish, when you know the facts right now. Do you want to wait until you wife is to old to find someone else?


    Okay... you HAVE to explain yourself... do you mean taking years to tell your wife? Do you mean knowing you are gay and keeping it a secret for years?

    Or, are you talking about after she knows and you undertake a process to get divorced and start seperate lives?
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    Jan 05, 2012 5:12 PM GMT
    AMoonHawk said
    TriAthInCA said
    AMoonHawk saidI think I understand what you mean by "DONT RUSH!! GO SLOW!!!", however, this should not a process over a period of years. You need to start ASAP to start facing facts and work on bringing them into light. Of course it is your life, so I suppose you can keep hidden as long as you like, men (and women) have done it very successfully throughout the centuries. And while you still maybe be able to get through each day living the life of 'married with children', mentally you are the one that is going to suffer over the long run, and maybe eventually you can train yourself to hate all things gay. But what if your child or your grand child is gay, is that the future you want for them?


    We get there at different rates, and for some of us it takes years. There is so much more to our lives then just our sexuality. There were many great things in my marriage, and it was not until my awakening to the desire for greater intimacy with a man, that the balance of the scale was tilted. Unfortunately, that emotional development took years to occur in me.



    Taking years is just selfish, when you know the facts right now. Do you want to wait until you wife is to old to find someone else?


    It is if you know all the facts right now, and are willing to betray the fidelity of your marriage, and have separated emotionally from your spouse, and are not loving your spouse in the myriad of other non-sexual ways we love. It is if you know that in fact you plan to leave. Someone advised me to wait until my kids were older and I had your exact response (not fair to my wife). But prior to last year, I really believed I could make it work. Hell I did it for a decade and a half. And despite the lack of bedroom activity, my wife would say over and over again, there was no better man for her. So in the complexity of life, I find much more grey then black and white. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jan 05, 2012 5:12 PM GMT
    I have to say that one time I dated a guy who's children were older than me. It was kind of creepy, but once I got to know him I didnt care.

    Obviously, that one didnt work out lol.
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    Jan 05, 2012 5:15 PM GMT
    Chainers saidI have to say that one time I dated a guy who's children were older than me. It was kind of creepy, but once I got to know him I didnt care.

    Obviously, that one didnt work out lol.


    That would be majorly creepy for me too, but coming at it from the other side...dating someone that could be my son. icon_confused.gif
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    Jan 05, 2012 9:51 PM GMT
    Im just not sure what to do in my life situation. I don’t necessarily want to stay hidden or in the closet.I can’t just up and leave them because I know I am gay. To me that just seems selfish. Though I do see what has been said about me staying in the relationship as being selfish as well. I do care for her and want her to be happy in life. My feelings toward men are more than sexual, though sex is a part of it. My wife and I have never had a great or even good sexual relationship in the years we’ve been married. I just have NO CLUE how to even approach it with her.

    I want to be able to still have a relationship with my kids and have them be part of my life. I also know how she is, and I fear that she will poison my kids minds against me because she does feel that being gay is wrong.

    I totally feel for guys struggling with the decision to come out, even without the implications of the life I/we have led. In my position, I just keep thinking about how many people I will hurt….just because I want to be myself. In my head, THAT seems more selfish to me than anything I have done, felt or considered. So I am also scared to take this step as well. That fear just paralyzes me at times whenever I try to think about what I should do. We have been together for so long, and are so interconnected, that it would be like someone cutting off an appendage. Im sure to some level weve been codependent upon each
    other for so long, that could be causing such a conflict in my mind.

    I do not have anyone other than those I have emailed with or received forum replies on here to talk with. I have considered going to therapy…shes actually mentioned it to me as well. But for other reasons because she sees that I have been acting differently lately. I imagine because of the conflict I have been hashing out in my head for so long. We have had fights over sex in the past, and shes asked me if I was gay. This was before I even was with another man. For reasons of fear, codependency whatever it may be, I adamantly denied it. In retrospect, wish I hadn’t. She gave me the opportunity to get it out and I didn’t take it. Fear freaking sucks!

    I was just so glad to see someone posted this topic, as I had been struggling with doing it myself. I thought for sure, I would finally be able to get advice, see how others handled the same situation, maybe even receive a level of understanding or compassion going through what I am going through. Not saying I want someone to say “Oh Poor You” because I don’t want that. I guess just some support with what I think inevitably needs to happen.
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    Jan 05, 2012 9:57 PM GMT
    Please call someone at your local Equality Office or at your local GLAAD and ask them for guidance and advice. Have someone to talk with who can help you through this period.

    We all have been there and we know the torment you are going through. But, at the risk of sounding cliched, it really, really does get better. Two years ago I was unhappy, probably clinically depressed and in a loveless marriage. I am now so much happier, freer and my wife and children are happier and freer as well. There were compromises I had to make along the way ($$$$) but they were worth it.

    Dont give up and dont despair... there are a zajillion guys in your situation.
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    Jan 05, 2012 10:19 PM GMT
    All the best mate. let me tell you it was hard being forced out at around 5/6 when It come out that I was being molested, and I protected my perpetrator; albeit wrongly. Oh how I was to pay for my stance as a child. So in may ways from that point I have been out and just got on with living my poofter life. It was to help me grow up with balls I can tell you. But I think I would rather go back to being that helpless child, being tortured for my conviction, than have to deal with what you are, but I am now all grown up, and hold my head high. All the best.