Should we drill offshore and in ANWR for oil now ?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 19, 2008 11:30 PM GMT
    The news is full of the debate to drill for oil and natural gas because of the gas price spike.

    I am wondering if we shouldnt just bite the bullet and get on with getting off oil.

    This mad rush to drill seems like it could be just a knee-jerk reaction that wont "pay off" for years and wont get us that much either.

    It may be better to just get on with solving the oil problem.

    We went thru this in the 70s, for heaven's sake.

    Our oil dependence is a big achilles' heel for the US.

    What do you guys think?
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14354

    Jun 19, 2008 11:49 PM GMT
    I think it is time for America to accept the hard fact that total dependence on the automobile is a costly, dead end street. Why should we wreck the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge for oil drilling when we really should be developing other sources of energy to power both our economy and our standard of living. It is also time for the American dream to change as well. No more encouraging sprawling, outlaying development further from the urban core. It is time to return to both the central cities and the aging first ring suburbs. Redevelopment of older, existing communities makes all the sense in the world. More investment in public transportation especially light rail transit and development of bicycling lanes and paths and less emphasis on roads and especially superhighways. America cannot continue to put its environment at serious risk just to subsidize a wasteful and unnecessary lifestyle.
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    Jun 19, 2008 11:57 PM GMT
    Well HELL YES! The Democrats have been doing everything they can to block domestic production for decades. Now they want to Nationalize the oil companies! The US has plenty of oil off shore, in the 20 acres of the 19 million acres of ANWAR and Colorado Shale oil.

    In the new cap and trade bill nancy Pelosi entered a provision to block Canadian shale oil and oil from tar sands which is a huge amount of our domestic consumption. We get 70% of our oil from Canada. What is Pelosi trying to do? This will double the price at the pump if it passes.

    If you like really high gas prices, then by all means vote Democrat this year.




  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 19, 2008 11:57 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidI think it is time for America to accept the hard fact that total dependence on the automobile is a costly, dead end street. Why should we wreck the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge for oil drilling when we really should be developing other sources of energy to power both our economy and our standard of living. It is also time for the American dream to change as well. No more encouraging sprawling, outlaying development further from the urban core. It is time to return to both the central cities and the aging first ring suburbs. Redevelopment of older, existing communities makes all the sense in the world. More investment in public transportation especially light rail transit and development of bicycling lanes and paths and less emphasis on roads and especially superhighways. America cannot continue to put its environment at serious risk just to subsidize a wasteful and unnecessary lifestyle.


    roadbike - I TOTALLY agree! They are looking at the Oregon coast for drilling. We already have unexplained "dead zones" which are devoid of any sea life, rapidly declining salmon runs and now oil rigs. What kind of world are we leaving for the next generation? icon_eek.gif
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    Jun 20, 2008 1:20 AM GMT
    Drilling in ANWR would result in shaving off a slim 3.5 center per gallon by 2027. In stead of more drilling we should be researching other fuel options.

    It is time.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jun 20, 2008 2:18 AM GMT
    I agree with Rob and Zombie.. move the process along and explore for other venues. I think the oil stranglehold is a dead end approach.

    icon_mad.gif
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    Jun 20, 2008 2:20 AM GMT
    Yeah drill in ANWR but get more than the 3 dollars a barrel to the US Treasury take like 75 dollars and go into Green Energy programs. Make driving to work a Luxury as it in in EUrope We have had this Problem since 1973 and since that time we have had 23 Years of GOP REIGN and they have done NOTHING. Biggest Joke US Dept of Energy their biggest task is making Nukes for the US DoD
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    Jun 20, 2008 2:33 AM GMT
    Have you ever been rock climbing before? It's always a good idea to inspect the cliff before you climb it and choose the rout with adequate hand and footholds.
    At times, a good hand and foot hold is just out of reach and you have to make a leap to get to them. If you're roped up with protection and your belay man is on the ball, it's no problem. If not, you risk disaster.

    Well we use oil, it works. It makes no sense making a leap to a hand and foot hold that we can't even see or define yet when we aren't even roped up. I agree that we should explore alternative energy sources but it's damned foolish to abandon what works in the mean time. High fuel prices mean high prices everywhere meaning you don't get as much goods and services for your money. You may be OK but those just making won't be making it soon enough. We're in this mess because the Democrats have been blocking domestic production for decades.





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    Jun 20, 2008 2:49 AM GMT

    Hell no we shouldn't.

    Even if we DID destroy the wilderness to drill for a source that will be quickly used up, it wouldn't help. Bush himself even said that there's "no quick fix" to this problem.

    Plus, many politicians (at least the president and his cronies) have direct ties to the oil industry. If we drill for oil in our own country, I highly doubt that gas prices would drop that much. Cheaper oil, same prices. It seems to make perfect sense to an oil tycoon.

    I agree that it's long past time that we need to invest in other energy sources. Our mass transit system is pathetic compared to nearly every other country.
  • SkyMiles

    Posts: 963

    Jun 20, 2008 2:54 AM GMT
    HELL FREAKIN' NO!!!!!!!!!!!

    Drilling ANWR is the one of the worst distractions from the real issues of why gas prices have spiked.

    1) Gas was LESS than 1$/Gallon under Clinton. Just wanted to get that out of the way first off.

    2) Even if we did drill more it would make MAYBE 3 cents a gallon difference ten years from now when the effects can be felt. Why? Because this is NOT a supply issue! It has to do with Enron-style oil contracts and our weak dollar. Why is the dollar weak? Because we financed two freakin' wars on credit AND cut taxes for the extremely wealthy at the same time! HELLO! Basic economics anyone?! Invisible hand? Guns OR butter?

    3) Our oil companies are already sitting on huge acreages of oil leases THAT THEY'RE NOT EVEN USING! Again -- this is not a supply issue! Oil companies could easily produce more, but why the f*ck should they when they're making more money than any other industry in world history right now?!

    The politicians promoting the idea of drilling in ANWR are trying to convince America to do something patently NOT in peoples' best interest while at the same time distracting them from the solutions that will amount to REAL change.
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    Jun 20, 2008 3:21 AM GMT
    FOR GOD'S SAKE NO !!!!!!!!!!!! AND FOR OUR GRANDCHILDREN TOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As others have said, it is time to move on to other more universally friendly to our future survival. So lets do as the dems have been trying to push since the 70's, lets perfect current technologies, and find new ones, that will get us off total dependence on oil. and as Colber_Nations says, the oil co's have plenty of land under contract/lease for drilling, let them do so in those places. even that will not help much to bring gas prices down. Somehow we need to pressure the media to quit promoting bush/big oil smoke screens to cover themselves, and promote the real stories, like what Colbert brought up about the leases these oil co's already have, the media needs to be promoting getting off oil. We need more public pressure on the media over this issue equal to what the pressure is from bush and the likes oil interests. YOU YOUNG GUYS NEED TO VOTE DEMOCRATIC AND GET THESE DAMNED OLD OIL FOOLS OUT OF POWER !!!!!
  • NYCguy74

    Posts: 311

    Jun 20, 2008 3:35 AM GMT
    Found this online today, read and judge for yourself
    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/18/134047/614/81/537906

    Story basically says that they are currently only drilling only 17% of the area that the oil companies have leases for. If they were to start drilling in the other 83% it could double the current national output of oil and raise natural gas production by 75% without going into ANWAR or into the currently banned offshore areas.
    Oil companies basically want the rights to the new lands so that in 25 years or so when oil is really expensive they can drill then.

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    John43620 saidWe're in this mess because the Democrats have been blocking domestic production for decades.



    The current oil ban dates from 1981, The senate was Republican majority, the House was Democratic.
    Also if congress lifts the drilling ban Bush would have to rescind an executive order that also bans drilling in the contested areas. The Executive ban was signed by the noted democrat George Bush Sr.icon_wink.gif


    -------------

    John stewart said it best a few months ago

    We have an oil man for president, and oil prices quadruple during his term. I'm not implying anything, but if Colonel Sanders was president, and chicken prices skyrocketed...

    --------------

    as Colbert_nation said above, it's more about oil companies not producing to keep prices up, putting money in their own pockets at the expense of the little guy.
    and drilling would take years to impact prices, and then only minimally.
    ANWAR is not the answer, we should preserve some areas of this earth, as they are instead of turning it all into an oil field.
    We should take this as sign to use what we have more efficiently. We as a race are stupid and lazy, after the oil embargoes of the 70's, efficient cars came out, and people looked at ways to ween ourselves off oil. Then in the 80's supplies rebounded, and prices dropped, so what do we do instead of keep up conservation? We have the Hummer, and other low gas milage cars.
    If we aren't pushed to choose alternative fuels, even without a rope as John43620 said, we won't go for it. sometimes the carrot approach just doesn't work, and you have to get the stick out, in this case the stick costs $4 a gallon. What if gas was $8.75 a gallon like it is currently in the UK?
    We should be looking to get off oil, not just to keep the price down, but also to keep the environment together. How much crap are we putting into the air, and thus also into our bodies?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 20, 2008 4:40 AM GMT
    Colbert Nation said; "3) Our oil companies are already sitting on huge acreages of oil leases THAT THEY'RE NOT EVEN USING! Again -- this is not a supply issue! Oil companies could easily produce more, but why the f*ck should they when they're making more money than any other industry in world history right now?!"

    You fail to understand why they aren't drilling yet. Federal regulations impose so many restrictions that it takes at least ten years of preparation and research before they are allowed to drill. This is one of the means by which the Democrats have held up domestic drilling. I saw the Democratic Congressmen last night on C-Span too so I looked into it. Democrats are great at causing a problem and then bitching about it with all the righteous indignation they can muster, most evidenced by the permanent scowl etched upon the face of Maxine Waters. Talk about a face freezing like that.






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    Jun 20, 2008 5:07 AM GMT
    Call me a conspiracy theorist, but hmmm...

    Step 1: Raise the price of oil to > $100/barrel (via collusion, price manipulation, market forces, political unrest - or whatever works!)
    Step 2: Be sure to pass as much of this on to consumers as possible so that they feel lots of pain
    Step 3: Foment consumer panic through an all-too-willing confederate (read: the news media) until consumers come to find that they aren't so "green," after all
    Step 4: Offer consumers a solution by drilling in environmentally sensitive areas which boast "mass amounts" of untapped oil reserves
    Step 5: Congress caves to constituent (i.e., consumer) pressures to allow such drilling
    Step 6: Drag your feet a lot so that oil inventories remain tight, but hang on to those leases
    Step 7: Collect big paychecks and gargantuan dividends

    ...it could happen.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 20, 2008 5:10 AM GMT
    No, because it won't make a difference now, and not much of one in 10 yrs or so when the sites would come into production -- and who can say what will be happening then. And yes, it is true that very little of the current concession produce oil or natural gas -- and I've heard Republicans comment on that fact as well, and that lmited refining capacity is another bottleneck in the system, not the ultimate one -- that is demand, but it does also affect increased availability.

    But yes, I think we should move away from oil, and this certainly should be a impetus, and the 70's oil problems did do that -- industry is much less dependant on oil, and oil as a proportion of global economy is much less than before that time, but it is transportation that has not really changed. And we can do, and could have done, much better on transportation, but with cheap oil, and no external impetus why change?

    But really for many reasons, and there are as many geopolitical ones as others, such as environmental, it makes sense to get off oil -- I always wonder at the GOP's infatuation with oil as it is counterintuitive to their national security claims -- dependance on oil makes us dependant on states that are not that friendly to us, so it makes sense from more than one reason to reduce that dependance, or at least give them less power. And there are ways around oil. They may not be the cheapest now, but just give them some support and time, and we'll see what happens.
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    Jun 21, 2008 7:55 AM GMT
    John - My Mother has seveal hundred acres of oil land - land that Texaco has drilling rights to - although they have never exercised them. Exploratory drills were done, oil was found, but Texaco decided it wasn't profitable to drill - it had nothing to do with any political party - it was based on economics. Now if they drilled I could be a wealthy person - but I would rather the land be used for a better purpose - farming! Currently it is being farmed by a wonderful man and his family and I would rather have it provide wheat to feed people as opposed to oil to provide gas for someone's SUV...
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14354

    Jun 21, 2008 3:03 PM GMT
    Here is another important item that is going to get more expensive because of higher oil prices- asphalt. Yes folks the cheapest and most popular road material which we nickname blacktop is a petroleum product. This translates as oil prices climb, the price of asphalt will also be pushed up due to extremely high demand for this oil product. Meaning that all road and street repairs are going to cost us taxpayers much more in the immediate future. Whether it is a milling and resurfacing project or just a thorough hot asphalt patching of ruts, potholes and uneven pavement the cost of doing these road repairs is going up because of the rising price of asphalt. Another valid reason to embrace other forms of transportation and get away from the automobile.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 21, 2008 3:06 PM GMT
    Offshore drilling and ANWR will decrease the price per gallon of gas by $.02. In 2025. The US DOE's own research supports this conclusion. Bush has thrown out his information as an election spoiler. Slug.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jun 21, 2008 3:49 PM GMT
    John43620 said, "We're in this mess because the Democrats have been blocking domestic production for decades."



    NO. We're in this mess because you stink!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 22, 2008 3:36 AM GMT
    Oil is finite. So if we drill in all the places we can we will run out of it sooner, same thing will happen with coal. in 1998 gas was under $1. No one said let's tax gas 50 cents a gallon and have all that money will go to develop solar, wind, electric batteries etc. We did not do this eventhough America peaked in oil production in 1971. The world will peak in production in 2010. My question to all those who want to drill.....then what? They may say creat coal cars and use up all the coal? then what?

    When are we going to have a leader to lead us to a new non-carbon based energy?

    So go ahead...drill, drill, drill, but then what? What do we tell our kids when it is all gone?

    So I say, let's compromise...drill away, but every dime of profit will go to alternative fuel research.

  • ASH557

    Posts: 112

    Jun 22, 2008 3:37 AM GMT
    Yes.

    Yes yes yes.

    x
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 22, 2008 3:43 AM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidHere is another important item that is going to get more expensive because of higher oil prices- asphalt. Yes folks the cheapest and most popular road material which we nickname blacktop is a petroleum product. This translates as oil prices climb, the price of asphalt will also be pushed up due to extremely high demand for this oil product. Meaning that all road and street repairs are going to cost us taxpayers much more in the immediate future. Whether it is a milling and resurfacing project or just a thorough hot asphalt patching of ruts, potholes and uneven pavement the cost of doing these road repairs is going up because of the rising price of asphalt. Another valid reason to embrace other forms of transportation and get away from the automobile.


    More frightening than asphalt is agriculture. All non-organic industrial farms use petro-fertilizers, made from oil. The near endless fields of corn are converted to various additives in just about every packaged food, turned into the wax that covers our produce, and made into animal feed which keeps our meat and dairy consumption going.

    Our society is completely dependent on a single limited resource. That needs to change now.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 22, 2008 4:03 AM GMT
    You're dreaming, we aren't getting off of oil anytime soon. When we do it will be great but it won't happen anytime soon. It probably won't happen in the lifetime of you young people.

    So face reality and kwitcherbellyakin. You all enjoy a nice lifestyle because of oil. So lets git to drillin!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 22, 2008 4:05 AM GMT
    So many misconceptions...

    1) Gas was LESS than 1$/Gallon under Clinton. Just wanted to get that out of the way first off.

    And what do you think drove American's to choose the Ford Explorer and other guzzlers as among the best selling? American's as a whole consume far to much energy. As does the rest of the expanding world. Lower gas prices help this process. Clinton didn't do anything to bring lower gas prices, and if anything all he helped do was spend taxpayer money on a useless Freedom Car project.

    3) Our oil companies are already sitting on huge acreages of oil leases THAT THEY'RE NOT EVEN USING! Again -- this is not a supply issue! Oil companies could easily produce more, but why the f*ck should they when they're making more money than any other industry in world history right now?!

    No, they are sitting on perviously unconsidered patches of oil that were once to expensive to process. Deep water oil is hard to reach, I guess few people have any appreciation for the technology that goes into reaching oil 5 miles or more below the ocean surface. Nor the cost involved. One deep water oil rig in the gulf cost upwards of $460,000 per day to operate and that doesn't include the cost of transporting then refining that oil. Another thing to remember is there has been little expansion inside the industry. There are only so many deep water rigs or refineries or platforms to use, building these takes time, and until recently it wasn't cost effective to do so.

    There is plenty of oil left, it's just not cheap to reach anymore. That and the dollar's values helps little. I'm sorry but anyone who thinks another Clinton is going to bring $1 a gallon gas again is living in a fantasy.

    If anything just drill. Oil will still be needed for awhile, and a steady supply at least keeps prices rising at a more stable level. Alternative options take just as long to develop or even more so. Invest in alternatives sources, and allow the market to make them more attractive. As oil rises in price people and business will move to other sources of energy and fuel. No need for massive taxes or corruption ridden government subsidies or programs.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Jun 22, 2008 4:58 AM GMT
    Yes, in fact, we should have started the drilling back in the 90's and OPEC wouldn't have us by the balls like they do now. Granted, we have to take every precaution and use all the technology that is available to drill but still protect the ecosystem. That said, we have to do what we have to do to get off our dependence on OPEC -- enough already. The sooner they see that we don't need or want their oil anymore, the sooner the price will start dropping --- and probable drastically. Burying our heads in the sand and acting like we're going to ween ourselves off of oil is not being realistic.