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Lucid Dreaming
swimbikerun Posts: 916
Jun 19, 2008 11:46 PM GMT
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Had my third (and only ever) lucid dream the other night.

The first one I ever had was when I was a kid and I was scared one night and couldn't sleep. Before I went to sleep, I imagined myself on the deck of the Enterprise. I fell asleep and presto! there I was.

The second lucid dream was a nightmare I kept having, with a black knight chasing me down a beach. I got really tired of having that dream, so I decided to do something about it. I took control one night, turned to face the night and pushed his lance into the sand which caused him to catapult over me. I never had the dream again.

Now, after many years I had another lucid dream. I was, for some reason, going to my Mom's house but the topology and surrounding area was very different than where my Mom lives. I then realized it must be a dream. It was dusk and I looked around taking everything in. There were lots of small house around, many with porch lights. I was looking at them and then one went out. Cool! I started walking around and saw a group of elephants.
I tried to get one of them to chase me, but they didn't seem interested and walked away. As I proceeded to across a field, I saw one charge me. It ran over me and I slipped between its legs as it did so. The whole thing somehow didn't seem "real" and then I woke up.
Caslon7000 Posts: 7976
Jun 20, 2008 12:28 AM GMT
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As my brain readjusts from teh cancer drugs, I have "lucid" dreams every night. It is fascinating to contemplate in the morning what might have stimulated them.
swimbikerun Posts: 916
Jun 20, 2008 12:43 AM GMT
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Caslon4000 saidAs my brain readjusts from teh cancer drugs, I have "lucid" dreams every night. It is fascinating to contemplate in the morning what might have stimulated them.


Have you been able to interact or otherwise control things that happen in your dreams?
Caslon7000 Posts: 7976
Jun 20, 2008 12:49 AM GMT
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swimbikerun said[quote][cite]Caslon4000 said[/cite]As my brain readjusts from teh cancer drugs, I have "lucid" dreams every night. It is fascinating to contemplate in the morning what might have stimulated them.

Have you been able to interact or otherwise control things that happen in your dreams?


No. And the dreams are always different.
SilverBird Posts: 452
Jun 20, 2008 2:10 AM GMT
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I had one once a long time ago. I was at a beach party with other people who were sleeping. Had a good time. Then the sun was coming up and i remembered i had to wake up so i said goodbye to everyone, went back home and went to my bed and woke myself up. I then woke up in real life.
TD22 Posts: 871
Jun 20, 2008 7:04 AM GMT
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I Have weird dream's most night's or early morn's?

All in colour as well and sometimes they wear me out!



I find eating cheese at night does not help?

Maybe there is something in cheese that set's them off?

I love cheese.



Dante_redux Posts: 235
Jun 20, 2008 7:13 AM GMT
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The only lucid dream I have is falling into an endless ravine. I always wake up with a start.
jprswim Posts: 141
Jun 20, 2008 7:20 AM GMT
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i wish i could have lucid dreams. the moment i start to become aware, i wake up.
Lapinblanc Posts: 243
Jun 20, 2008 10:12 AM GMT
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When I was quitting smoking I used the Nicoderm patches..those things give you the most incredibly vivid dreams.. makes me want to put one on before bed every once in a while.

There is even a warning on the box to remove them before bed if you are prone to nightmares or the dreams bother you.
Sedative Posts: 5407
Jun 20, 2008 12:05 PM GMT
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There's a topic on this a while back.

And no, I've never had a lucid dream, though I'd love to experience one.

I have vivid dreams, but never one where I knew I was awake.

I did have a nightmare once though where I convinced myself I was awake. I recounted the experience on the nightmares thread here (can't find it). Anyway, I dreamt that I woke up and there was someone lying next to me and I couldn't move or scream, couldn't even turn my head. But somehow I knew that whoever that person lying next to me was, he was dead.

*shivers*

I woke up and realized that it was only a dream because the layout of my room in the dream was the one a few years back and the lighting was reddish. Still... it was weird because I really believed I was awake.

On the other hand, there are the real nightmares. The one where you wake up and can't move? Happened to me a lot when I was younger - often accompanied with a horrible feeling of impending doom and the presence of something malevolent (even imagined I actually saw it a few times through half-opened eyes).

I hate those kind of nightmares. I'm claustrophobic and am in danger of hyperventilating myself to death when that happens. Anyway, hasn't happened for years now. So I guess I'm safe.
muchmorethanm... Posts: 2767
Jun 20, 2008 1:58 PM GMT
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I would say that 70-80% of my dreams are lucid dreams.

I just thought it was natural.
Hidden/Deleted Member
Jun 20, 2008 2:35 PM GMT
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Most of mine are lucid, though I tend to forget most of them within a few days. I still have night terrors about dogs, wolves or bears trying to kill me at least a couple times a month. Those are always very memorable.

Maybe your lucid dreaming is a sign from Ceiling Cat to repent your wicked atheistic ways swimbikerun.
a1972guy Posts: 1943
Jun 20, 2008 2:46 PM GMT
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Mine is always me attempting to balance on a brick wall that's sky high and then I slip and fall off and in the midst of the initial fall is when I abruptly wake up! I get these, that I'm able to recall, maybe like once every month or two....
Hidden/Deleted Member
Jun 20, 2008 3:08 PM GMT
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Hi guyz! Dreams, Ha, Lucid or not they all have a underlining meaning. I know some do not believe in this but the deep part of our system of thoughts trust and care vitally depends on how and what we dream. Of course we all know what goes on throughout our day can and sometimes does determine what we dream. If we do our best in our day our system or core of all of our chemistry hormones, diet(nutrtitional intake) sex, problems, bills, drama, choas, work, etc all have and take a huge toll literally on our systems. When and only when we REST our bodies will rebuild this track of connection in ourselves. For example Post Tramatic Stress Disorder is a real issue. I have worked with many militarty agents whom have had this as we all have had a situtation in our life to give us this. It is a real problem. And or until we do something about it. If we do not do something about it , then our BODY WISDOM will take over and help us out. Many things can happen to us in our life that will take effect on how we life , think and feel. THis enables our body wisdom to do its job. But dependant on how we think about this or that will determine the outcome of the dreams. And you have heard do not eat late at night or go to bed mad. These are examples of how really our body is senstive to such things. It is not a question of being strong it is a insight to the awareness we all carry and are responsible for. Try to settle your thoughts, mind and body before going to bed each night, go through your mind your whole day and become satisfied with what you did or did not do. Then embrace not surrender (this is defeat) to the testimony that you recieve among yourself. Take Care guys and make it a great night sleep! Coach Damon, "DrSporty" Harper from Soul Strength PRoductions at www.DRSPORTY.COM SEE U THERE!
a1972guy Posts: 1943
Jun 20, 2008 3:12 PM GMT
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DrSporty said Try to settle your thoughts, mind and body before going to bed each night, go through your mind your whole day and become satisfied with what you did or did not do. Then embrace not surrender (this is defeat) to the testimony that you recieve among yourself. Take Care guys and make it a great night sleep! Coach Damon, "DrSporty" Harper from Soul Strength PRoductions at www.DRSPORTY.COM SEE U THERE!


I've actually noticed that since starting Bikram's Yoga it has made a HUGE difference in my sleep as well as my dreaming
Sean_85 Posts: 1018
Jun 20, 2008 3:22 PM GMT
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I've only had one that really stands out and it was a horrible nightmare. I love the dreams when i'm flying the best.
swimbikerun Posts: 916
Jun 20, 2008 3:34 PM GMT
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jprswim saidi wish i could have lucid dreams. the moment i start to become aware, i wake up.


Yeah that's almost my problem too. Whenever I take control in the dream, shortly afterwards I wake up.

RBY71 said
Maybe your lucid dreaming is a sign from Ceiling Cat to repent your wicked atheistic ways swimbikerun.

I mentioned this most current dream to a co-worker and she asked me what I thought it "meant". I told her I was an atheist and the dream didn't really mean anything. If I had a dream about an emotionally charged encounter with someone in particular, then that might mean something.

Last night, I had just such a dream. lol!
Hidden/Deleted Member
Jun 20, 2008 3:40 PM GMT
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my dreams have always been really vivid, and appeal to all of my senses- i remember most of them, or a lot of them, and sometimes my dreams from a long time ago get mixed up in my memory with real events so i'm never sure if early childhood things happened or were dreamed (these being the more mundane dreams, obviously- i know i never flew lol).

a lot of my dreams are lucid dreams, but this doesn't always help like it should.. i'll know i'm in a dream, or even that i've dreamed it before- in which case i'll maybe know what's going to happen next- but that doesn't always give me the ability to just 'do whatever i want.' i'll think 'oh, i'm having a dream. kewl! that means i should just be able to jump into the air and fly!' -so i try, and land on my face lol. its kinda disappointing. its like knowing im in a dream doesn't free me from whatever rules its playing by. maybe my subconscious is too well ordered? :p anyways, i do rarely have those dreams where i can do whatever i want, and they're as amazing as can be expected.

there are ways of training ones mind to be able to do this, or to do it better, by keeping a dream journal upon waking every day, and be doing certain meditative practices to train the imagination and one's control over it during sleep-like trance states. sometimes, my meditations slip into becoming lucid dreams without me knowing it lol.

but yeah, on the whole, they're good fun. i'm always amused when i have really deep intellectual conversations with my dream characters, and wake up with new ideas that i'm not entirely sure i came up with on my own :p good times.

i suggest watching the movie 'Waking Life' if you haven't seen it
TD22 Posts: 871
Jun 20, 2008 3:44 PM GMT
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But it's hard to tell at times when dreams are just dreams and the others are out of body experiences and real?
Hidden/Deleted Member
Jun 20, 2008 3:59 PM GMT
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dreams are all real- that is, the processes in the brain are identical to those of waking life, the only difference being that there's no external stimuli being interpreted. and of course, your brain waves are operating at a much slower rate. but really, how the brain fabricates the dream is the same as how it fabricates anything else- including 'reality.' i take them as seriously as i do waking life- which is to say, not very; or rather, i distrust their 'reality' equally. they have a lot of value if you don't discount them though- whether its merely the insights they can offer, or whether you believe in their ability to prophesy, dreams have been used or at least respected by man for as long as we've been here. and i think all dreams are an out of body experience in a sense... you're exploring the aether (of living symbols, archetypes, fundamental reality beneath the surface level.)
swimbikerun Posts: 916
Jun 20, 2008 4:06 PM GMT
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As fascinating as I find lucid dreams are, they are not "real". There is no such thing as an "out of body" experience. It is nothing more than a vivid imagination and there is no prophesy occuring.
Hidden/Deleted Member
Jun 20, 2008 4:12 PM GMT
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well thats a cute sentiment, and its a valid belief i guess... but no more provable than its alternative... i wouldn't try to change your mind, but if i were you i'd refrain from speaking with absolute certainty.
swimbikerun Posts: 916
Jun 20, 2008 4:17 PM GMT
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Again, we're back to the same position as other matters of spirituality. Your answer to TurkishDelight's query reffered to the "aether". There is no proof such a thing exists.
Anyone who posits that dreams are anything more than pure imagination must provide evidence to be believed.

We live in the 21st century and I'm frustrated that people still choose to live in the shadows of the Dark Ages. I certainly won't refrain about the certainty that some poeple wilfully choose to delude themselves.

Hidden/Deleted Member
Jun 20, 2008 4:23 PM GMT
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and anyone who says they're not must do likewise. i challenge you to disprove the possibility of an aether. though honestly, you don't even know what i mean when i say that word so i think you have a lot of reading to do before you begin to attempt it. logic is a two way street; recall how easy it'd been for our ancestors to ignore the reality of gravity or of air simply because they couldn't 'prove' it, as well as because those things were such an integral part in their experience of reality that there was no especial reason for looking into them too closely. the aether is as real as our subconscious, its as real as imagination, at the very least, and that's as real as anything can be said to be, philosophically. though more truly than that, it can also be said to have an 'objective' reality underlying the more surface level one we interact with directly.

its frustrating to ME how much absolute faith people blindly put in a surface level interpretation of everything, when modern science itself is beginning to discover its limits and the fundamental flaws in empiricism- the more we discover and 'know,' the less we realize we actually Know. quantum mechanics has literally turned everything we thought we knew on its head and a lot of the best scientists are actually looking back to a re-integration of mysticism/spirituality with science, as its intended to be. there are simply things- whole aspects of reality- that defy exploration and definition by strict scientific means. that doesn't mean they aren't true, it just means that our methods are very practical for some things, and quite useless for others. i assure you, the exploration of those things that science can't wrap its greedy lil fingers around yet is not a futile effort- indeed, its the most noble of all. true ignorance is the complacent satisfaction with what's already known at its face value- imagine if your beloved scientists chose to stop prodding reality with ever deeper questions- if they just said 'ok, we've pretty much got it figured out now, i guess we can all retire.' its ridiculous- reality is more than we make it out to be, and its more than science has been able to define- or ever will be able to- some things defy definition. i think the empirical science of the enlightenment and the divorce of science and spirituality has led to a new dark age; a particularly insidious one wherein we are as convinced of the 'reality' of our beliefs as the christians were of theirs 1000 years ago. its no less faulty of a world view, and some of our greatest thinkers attest to that. get off your high horse, you're as wrong as i am.
Hidden/Deleted Member
Jun 20, 2008 4:28 PM GMT
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Photobucket

Photobucket The Twelve Commandments of Flaming Photobucket

Make things up about your opponent: It's important to make your lies sound true. Preface your argument with the word "clearly." Example: "Clearly, Fred Flooney is a liar, and a dirtball to boot."

Be an armchair psychologist: You're a smart person. You've heard of Freud. You took a psychology course in college. Clearly, you're qualified to psychoanalyze your opponent. Example: "Polly Purebread, by using the word 'zucchini' in her posting, shows she has a bad case of penis envy."

Cross-post your flames: Everybody on the 'Net is just waiting for the next literary masterpiece to leave your terminal! From the Apple II Roundtable to X-10 Powerhouse Roundtable, they're all holding their breath until your next flame. Therefore, post everywhere.

Conspiracies abound: If everybody's against you, the reason can't possibly be that you're a sh**head. There's obviously a conspiracy against you, and you will be doing the entire 'Net a favor by exposing it.

Lawsuit threats: This is the reverse of Rule #4 (sort of like the Yin & Yang of Flaming). Threatening a lawsuit is always considered to be in good form. Example: "By saying that I've posted to the wrong group, Bertha has libeled me, slandered me, and sodomized me. See you in court, Bertha."

Force them to document their claims: Even if Harry Hoinkus states outright that he likes tomato sauce on his pasta, you should demand documentation. If Newsweek hasn't written an article on Harry's pasta preferences, then Harry's obviously lying.

Use foreign phrases: French is good, but Latin is the lingua franca of Flaming. You should use the words "ad hominem" at least three times per article. Other favorite Latin phrases are "ad nauseum," "veni, vidi, vici," and "fettuccini alfredo."

Tell 'em how smart you are: Why use intelligent arguments to convince them you're smart when all you have to do is tell them? State that you're a member of Mensa, or Mega, or Dorks of America. Tell them the scores you received on every exam since high school. Example: "I got an 800 on my SATs, LSATs, GREs, MCATs, and I can also spell the word 'premeiotic'."

Accuse your opponent of censorship: It is your right as an American citizen to post whatever the hell you want to the 'Net (as guaranteed by the 37th Amendment, I think). Anybody who tries to limit your cross-posting or move a Flame War to email is either a communist, a fascist, or both.

Doubt their existence: You've never actually seen your opponent, have you? And since you're the center of the universe, you should have seen them by now, shouldn't you? Therefore, THEY DON'T EXIST! This is the beauty of Flamers' logic.

Lie, cheat, steal, leave the toilet seat up. Photobucket

When in doubt, insult: If you forget the other 11 rules, remember this one. At some point during your wonderful career as a Flamer you will undoubtedly end up in a Flame War with somebody who is better than you. This person will expose your lies, tear apart your arguments, and make you look generally like a bozo. At this point, there's only one thing to do . . . INSULT THE DIRTBAG! Example: "Oh yeah? Well, your mother does strange things with vegetables."


EXAMPLE REPLY POST . . . for the Rookie Flamer

>Dear Joe,

I object to your use of the word "dear." It shows you are a condescending, sexist pig. Also, the submissive tone you use shows that you like to be tied down and flagellated with licorice whips.

>While I found your article "The Effect of Belly-Button Lint
>on Western Thought" to be extremely thought-provoking,

"Thought-provoking?" I had no idea you could think, you rotting piece of swamp slime.

>it really shouldn't have been posted in rec.scuba.

What? Are you questioning my judgment? I'll have you know that I'm a member of the super-high-IQ Society Menstruate. I got an 800 on my PMS exam.

Your attempts constitute nothing less than censorship. There is a conspiracy against me. You, Riff Raff, and Simon Sinister have been constantly harassing me by email. This was an ad hominem attack! I have therefore cross-posted this to alt.flame, rec.nude, comp.graphics, and rec.arts.wobegon.

>Perhaps you should have posted it in misc.misc.

It is my right, as granted in the Bill of Rights, the Magna Carta, the Bible, and the Koran, to post where ever I want to. Or don't you believe in those documents, you damned fascist? Perhaps if you didn't spend so much time sacrificing virgins and infants to Satan, you would have realized this.

>Your article would be much more appropriate there.

Can you document this? I will only accept documents notarized by my attorney, and signed by you in blood. Besides, you don't really exist anyway, you AI project, you.
swimbikerun Posts: 916
Jun 20, 2008 4:34 PM GMT
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Again this is the same kind of claim that can be made for any imaginary thing, an Orbiting TeaPot, The Spagetti Monster, Unicorns, the list is endless.

One can never "prove" such things do not exist. Around the next bend, just over the hill or somewhere such things might exist.

By all means, please continue with your description of this thing called "aether". Will you be giving a lecture at a college anytime soon on its properties?

Even in ancient times, one could demonstrate the indirect nature of gravity and air. Gravity and air change as a body moves underwater for example.

What might we do to see if this "aether" indirectly exists or not?

I wouldn't exactly equate imagination with external reality. I can do things in dreams I cannot do when I'm awake.
Hidden/Deleted Member
Jun 20, 2008 4:46 PM GMT
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dreams are a direct experience of the aether, to answer your question. as are meditative explorations of it, out of body experiences, astral travel, and other such experiences as man has cultivated since pre-history. it not only has bearing on your objective reality- its that level of reality's foundational prototype. its the chaos and probability of the quantum scale of reality. things don't work the same there, obviously (though it isn't really a 'there' as its superimposed on the here and now, which is all there truly 'is,' if anything can be said to exist in such a state as 'is'), so flying and waking through walls and whatnot is perfectly reasonable, just as quantum phenomena are only to be expected at that level of physical reality and couldn't possibly occur otherwise.

here's a great article on quantum consciousness for those who are interested (cut and paste):
http://www.alchemywebsite.com/quantum.html


and if you're if you're interested, btw, in what 'practical' bearing the exploration of the aether may have, pick up a good book on magick. i suggest Liber ABA by Alister Crowly. its the oldest art and science of man, and predates pretty much everything else. rail against tens of thousands of years of profitable belief and exploration if you want, but the fact of the matter is that man has only brushed it aside in the last two hundred years, and its suffered for it- many are picking it back up again, thank god.

i'm not really interested in having a flame war with you, so this'll be my last post in this forum; think what you want, its not my business. my experience of reality will just be a deeper, more meaningful one, and its your loss not mine. closed-mindedness has never been and will never be a virtue, and you've got to live with that i guess. i mean, anyone can choose to take everything at face-value and live at a surface level, but where's the fun or the reward in that? it takes real bravery, and keenness of intellect to search that which lies deeper, which is testified to by all of history's acclaimed geniuses, who broke from mainstream belief/science to pose unorthodox questions in the pursuit of unorthodox answers (or better questions, at any rate).
muchmorethanm... Posts: 2767
Jun 20, 2008 4:56 PM GMT
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Hey let's not get all combative about something that is generally very enjoyable. Dreams are great as long as they're pleasant or interesting. But of course, nightmares are not. In any event, I think dreams are very personal and can't be boxed into some realm of science. But I must say there are professionals within the psychology field that incorporate dream interpretation into their work. For the most part people within this field analyze dreams and don't take them for face value but rather interpret them with the patient who's having them. I find it fascinating.
On slightly different note, dreams can be prophetic. Years ago as a young boy I misunderstood the term deja vu. I thought that a deja vu was something you dreamt while sleeping that would actually happen in the physical world. It was so uncanny the first time it happened.

For me, dreams can either be prophetic and indicate future events. They can be the way in which your subconscious mind communicates with your conscious mind through imagery to help you or bring nagging situations to your attention to address/rectify and I find that when I'm in a lucid dream I think it's possibly just some astral experience that I'm somehow conscious of. By that I mean I'm out of my body and somehow partaking in some event that I can consciously control.

Swimbikerun, you want proof on a subject matter that even the most advanced experts can't even explain. The mind is truly amazing. I think we need another several thousand years on this planet, all the while researching the brain and it's potential to be able to fully be able to understand and scientifically prove what it is capable of doing.
tommysguns200... Posts: 923
Jun 20, 2008 5:16 PM GMT
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off topic discussions, aside..I think some people are confusing lucid dreams with vivid dreams.

Lucid dreams are those during which you know you are dreaming and can actively participate in said dream.

Vivid dreams are merely those which seem real at the time, memories of which generally last beyond waking.

Lucid dreaming is a technique that can be taught/learned. I took tons of sensory perception and sleep psych classes in undergrad and one of our professors made us all undergo lucid dream training. She was a little whacko and I'm sure a complete pothead, but it was a good class, and I got to the point where I could, from time to time (though I never learned to pick the dreams myself) participate in an active manner in some dreams.

ok, let the flamewar resume...

Skotlake Posts: 121
Jun 20, 2008 5:25 PM GMT
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Thanks tommy for the clarification, I agree a lot of people were getting confused.

As he said, lucid dreaming is a skill that can be taught. It is very similar to other sorts of methods to calming the mind, such as Bikram Yoga, as was mentioned . .

I've taught myself to do it (and I LOVE it!) and here's a few tips I have for those of you who want to induct lucid dreams:

* Start a dream journal. - I know a lot of people who are too lazy to do this (most people I've ever talked to about lucid dreaming). It is the single-most important thing you can do. As soon as you wake up, write down anything you can in your dream journal . . those precious moments before full-consciousness are the only moments you may get to remember your dreams. By writing this dream journal, you are teaching your mind to be serious not only about remembering dreams, but to be conscious of them.
* Start reality checks - This is kind of a goofy idea but do things in your "waking" life that you might also do in a lucid dream, which allows you to "check" whether you are awake or not. Some suggest looking at your hand (it is said that in a lucid dream your hand may look different) or looking at a clock twice in a row and seeing if the numbers change. The reason you do this is because if you "ask" someone in a dream, "Am I dreaming?," they will most certainly say no . .
* Have a goal - Whether it be a place you want to go to, a person you want to talk to, or something you want to do. For example, I LOVE flying dreams so most often these days when I realize I am in a lucid dream, I immediately start running and flying. (Some dreams are more successful than others--I once had a dream where I began to fly and then crashed into the ground!)

Those are just some thoughts I had to share. Lucid dreaming is really a fantastic thing, metaphysical "reality" debates/flame-wars aside.
swimbikerun Posts: 916
Jun 20, 2008 5:25 PM GMT
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tommysguns2000 saidoff topic discussions, aside..I think some people are confusing lucid dreams with vivid dreams.

Lucid dreams are those during which you know you are dreaming and can actively participate in said dream.

Vivid dreams are merely those which seem real at the time, memories of which generally last beyond waking.

Lucid dreaming is a technique that can be taught/learned.
Yes! Thanks for making the distinction tommysguns2000. I didn't realize the distinction myself until I read your post.

Here's the next lucid dream I'm going to try to induce: czarodziej and I meet up and have a heated argument face-to-face. Next, we end up skinny-dipping by the moonlight!
Skotlake Posts: 121
Jun 20, 2008 5:33 PM GMT
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swimbikerun said[quote][cite]tommysguns2000 said[/cite]off topic discussions, aside..I think some people are confusing lucid dreams with vivid dreams.

Lucid dreams are those during which you know you are dreaming and can actively participate in said dream.

Vivid dreams are merely those which seem real at the time, memories of which generally last beyond waking.

Lucid dreaming is a technique that can be taught/learned.
Yes! Thanks for making the distinction tommysguns2000. I didn't realize the distinction myself until I read your post.

Here's the next lucid dream I'm going to try to induce: czarodziej and I meet up and have a heated argument face-to-face. Next, we end up skinny-dipping by the moonlight![/quote]

Hmm . . now only if I could lucid dream and join your lucid dream!
TD22 Posts: 871
Jun 20, 2008 5:45 PM GMT
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swimbikerun saidAs fascinating as I find lucid dreams are, they are not "real". There is no such thing as an "out of body" experience. It is nothing more than a vivid imagination and there is no prophesy occuring.


I totally disagree with you on that one!
tommysguns200... Posts: 923
Jun 20, 2008 5:50 PM GMT
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I think we should have a RealJock Lucid Dream party...where we all meet in our dreams and have some sort of crazy orgy/metaphysical debate/arm workout.

Then we'll all sit around a big bonfire on the beach and roast weenies and have s'mores and chocolate cake and we won't get fat cause we're just dreaming. And the party will culminate in czarodziej and swimbikerun engaging in mortal nude oil wrestling to prove or disprove the existence of aether once and for all.

Sign up sheet below: (please indicate whether you'd like to bring a side dish or dessert).
auryn Posts: 1587
Jun 20, 2008 5:56 PM GMT
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Prophetic or not, dreams can hold a lot of symbolism. Many Jungian Psychologist prefer that clients come in and talk about their dreams since they believe them to have harbor hidden meanings from our subconscious. Dream analysis doesn't have to scare an athiest into making him believe in an afterlife, and countless study has been given to the subject.

I believe that many dreams have meaning and some are nothing but weird images brought on by bad cabbage (or Sustiva in my case). For those that are spiritually minded and find meaning outside of themselves, why can't it be ok for them to see some dreams as guidance, admonishment, or encouragement from some place outside of themselves as long as they don't go hurting others or themselves because of that perception? Why be so dismissive of something so abstract?

If you want some tangible meaning from a dream, write it down and make a screen play out of some of your best dreams. Who knows, you might make loads of money for an idea, even if it's as bad as something that M. Night Shyamalan cooks up.

I have two classes of lucid dreams; my regular dreams --which may or may not hold meaning-- and my Sustiva dreams (that keep my senses as alert as if I were awake and are sometimes graphic). My latest Sustiva dream (and I'll keep it short) involved two MTF trannies a straight guy that one of them was trying to seduce, me and a female prostitute. Classic story/ Tranny number one gets the straight boy drunk/ calls for a prostitute to help get the guy in the mood/ moves in to take part in the sex between them prostitute and the guy/ gets rejected in the process and slams his penis in a window (that opens from the side) until it comes off because he's sick of it. Blood everywhere. Tranny number two and I look in horror and sober up quickly as we try to stop our disgruntled friend. After seeing blood splatter on the wall and hearing the prostitute scream, I wake up cursing about my damn Sustiva, HIV that makes me have to be on the meds, and having an irrational thought that RJ had something to do with this.

Is there meaning in the dream? Probably not, so what did I do? I rolled my eyes and went back to sleep. I'm kind getting used to those types; not all are morbid, but they all are entertaining to some degree.

Hidden/Deleted Member
Jun 20, 2008 9:54 PM GMT
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tommysguns2000 saidI think we should have a RealJock Lucid Dream party...where we all meet in our dreams and have some sort of crazy orgy/metaphysical debate/arm workout.

Then we'll all sit around a big bonfire on the beach and roast weenies and have s'mores and chocolate cake and we won't get fat cause we're just dreaming. And the party will culminate in czarodziej and swimbikerun engaging in mortal nude oil wrestling to prove or disprove the existence of aether once and for all.

Sign up sheet below: (please indicate whether you'd like to bring a side dish or dessert).


I'll bring the peyote buttons.
RSportsguy Posts: 410
Jun 20, 2008 10:26 PM GMT
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Tommyguns is always in my favorite lucid dreams!!
swimbikerun Posts: 916
Jun 21, 2008 4:31 AM GMT
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Ok guys, totally looking forward to tonight's dream orgy! yum!!
Hidden/Deleted Member
Jun 23, 2008 4:56 AM GMT
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[quote][cite]On the other hand, there are the real nightmares. The one where you wake up and can't move? Happened to me a lot when I was younger - often accompanied with a horrible feeling of impending doom and the presence of something malevolent (even imagined I actually saw it a few times through half-opened eyes).

I hate those kind of nightmares. I'm claustrophobic and am in danger of hyperventilating myself to death when that happens. Anyway, hasn't happened for years now. So I guess I'm safe. [/quote]

I have several sleeping disorders, and this is actually a phenomenom known as sleep paralasis. In some people, vivid hallucinations can come with the inability to move for anywhere from a few seconds to a few minutes. My first experiance with this was particularly terrifying as I was having a nightmare about being paralized from the neck down, and then I woke up and was not able to move! I couldn't even scream though I tried. Fortunatly this does not happen to me very often anymore, nor do the night terrors that i sometimes have.

As for lucid dreams, I love them and wish I had them more often. I love being able to make myself fly once i realize i am dreaming, I love that feeling. But I will take vivid dreaming when I can get it too.
mickeytopogig... Posts: 1022
Jun 23, 2008 5:16 AM GMT
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czarodziej said...closed-mindedness has never been and will never be a virtue, and you've got to live with that i guess...
Okay, czarodziej, stop equating rejection (of your flights) as closed-mindedness. Being flighty is not the same thing as being open minded.

I like that you are a questioner of convention. In that, you appear to have developed some sort of skepticism, which has encouraged you to take these flights. However, I've noticed once you've tasted the peyote (metaphorically, at least), you let the peyote become the reality. Metaphorically speaking.

In that regard, you become closed minded. I know you can't believe this, but you instantly reject others' skepticism of your experience. Open your mind for a second and imagine: it's just the peyote talking.
ObsceneWish Posts: 3364
Jun 24, 2008 4:55 AM GMT
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Because my background is psychoanalytical, I work a lot with clients' dreams.

It really does not matter to me if the dream has "inherent" meaning. More than likely, what we call a dream is a spontaneous production of images without particular narrative. The narrative is "remembered." That is, when you awaken, you spontaneously make a kind of sense out of the images by weaving them into a narrative.

Even if you don't "remember" the entire narrative as you did when you awakened, but still have an image in mind hours later, your waking mind will build a narrative as you contemplate the image. Images have the inherent property of movement, changing.

So what is important is the telling of the narrative. In that, the images work like an ink-blot test. You concoct a narrative and that narrative, as you closely examine its various elements, discloses lots of information that might not be apparent in ordinary consciousness.

However, it is also true that some images seem to be so universal both in their structure and context that they demonstrate the way the mind can be seized by forces outside its control. Love is a good example.

Some dreams seem to provide information about the body's status. Last night, in fact, I awoke with a start from a dream in which one of my knees suddenly gave away. (I have bad knees thanks to botched surgery on them.) This afternoon, in the gym, I was leaning against a machine, talking to someone, lost my balance and my left knee gave away. The same thing happened a few hours later.

Finally: Lucid dreaming is controversial with people into dream analysis. Because it's a conscious effort to direct the narrative (rather than let it emerge spontaneously), meaning may be distorted or repressed. Indeed, swimbikerun insists his dream, a lucid one, has no meaning. I'm not sure what atheism has to do with that.
dancerjack Posts: 880
Jun 24, 2008 5:08 AM GMT
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sometimes i dream about being in ballet class, and when it's time for jetés across the floor i'll wake myself up with a powerful kick. LOL

ObsceneWish Posts: 3364
Jun 24, 2008 12:54 PM GMT
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You're back. Yay!
skotjockmi Posts: 124
Jun 25, 2008 12:48 AM GMT
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I have always had extremely vivid dreams, and often have lucid dream experiences. Some of them are so powerful that I wake up with a deep sense of loss, joy, pain, anxiety, etc.

My favorites are flying dreams which I have a lot.

I also have a habit of falling asleep with my boyfriend and end up in a semi dream/consciousness state where I'm dreaming things, talking to him, and incorporating what he says into what I'm dreaming, confusing the crap out of him. Then I usually wake up and realize what I've done.



auryn Posts: 1587
Jun 25, 2008 5:10 PM GMT
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DancerJack's back!!! Yaaaay! Now we can talk about Janet's new reality show.
CarlosGringo Posts: 533
Jul 09, 2008 4:29 AM GMT
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I used to be very interested in lucid dreaming, which I understood to be: becoming aware that one is dreaming, without waking up, and from then on consciously creating dream content.

Lately, my feeling has been that since I have to create life content for 2/3rds of my life, gimme my 1/3 of "just lie there and don't pee," thank you very much!
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