Beyond Soy Protein

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 08, 2012 2:52 PM GMT
    I have taken both soy and whey protein over the past few years and have had good results with both. Last night I was at our local nutrition store and was trying to get more soy (I like it because I'm trying to keep my heart healthy).

    The guy behind the counter all but refused to sell it to me, telling me that it "raises estrogen levels" and whatnot. I've heard pros and cons about whey.

    My question is as follows: what should I be looking at in order to get a protein supplement? I'm looking for something safe and well-studied, and I'm a USAPL powerlifter so we get piss tested regularly. I'm on a budget too, so it can't be too exotic ;-).

    Thanks,
    Patrick
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    Jan 08, 2012 3:09 PM GMT
    http://www.clinsci.org/cs/100/cs1000613.htm

    Nutshell: Effects of estrogen levels on male physiological health (after consuming soy-based products) is overblown, assuming one is consuming such products as suggested.
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    Jan 09, 2012 1:46 AM GMT
    dayumm saidhttp://www.clinsci.org/cs/100/cs1000613.htm

    Nutshell: Effects of estrogen levels on male physiological health (after consuming soy-based products) is overblown, assuming one is consuming such products as suggested.


    Thanks man, I wondered if that was the case.
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    Jan 09, 2012 6:21 AM GMT
    Well, there's no definitive evidence that soy does or does not increase estrogen levels in males. However, it has occurred with a few males in different studies. So this is another case of: individual results may vary. If you're really that concerned, it might be best to check with a doctor. And monitor your testosterone levels as you add more soy to your diet.
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    Jan 09, 2012 6:27 AM GMT
    There have also been studies that say that soy increases the risk of certain cancers, but there have also been studies that show that soy decreases cancers. The bottom line is that they just don't know yet.

    There are pros and cons to everything. Moderation is key. I don't have a specific suggestion because I don't know anything about power-lifting. If you are looking for a healthier whey protein, you might want to look into whey protein isolate. It has higher protein and less fat/cholesterol, but it's more expensive. I'd also recommend just in general that you get protein from a variety of sources. This will keep your diet more balanced and will hopefully lessen any chances of bad effects from over-using any one particular source of protein.
  • mikey_101

    Posts: 250

    Jan 09, 2012 8:53 AM GMT
    HEMP..... complete protein.
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    Jan 09, 2012 9:06 AM GMT
    The HEMP around here probably has more estrogen in it than the pill :/
  • mikey_101

    Posts: 250

    Jan 09, 2012 9:33 AM GMT
    Huh... hemp has more estrogen than the pill.

    Where are you at?
  • coastguy90814

    Posts: 661

    Jan 09, 2012 9:35 AM GMT
    Soy does raise estrogen levels Period. As a Personal Trainer, I do no recommend it for my male clients unless they want 'man boobs'...I would still with quick absorption Whey or slower absorption Casein.
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    Jan 10, 2012 12:55 AM GMT
    The whole soy protein will cause estrogen like effects and raise estrogen levels is a bunch of whatever and bs.

    I'm a personal trainer and go through at least a gallon of soy milk every week for the last 10 years and does it look like I've sprouted boobs?

    I'm going to quote an article from a publication I received from The Vitamin Shoppe that commented on soy protein and its effects on body builders:

    'Soy is a complete protein yielding all of the nine essential amino acids...... . Yet many bodybuilders fear soy protein due to the fact that it contains high amounts of isoflavones that impart estrogen like effects in the body. They worry that the isoflavones compete with testosterone's anabolic effects. However, research on soy in bodybuilders allay those fears. The research showed that when male bodybuilders consumed a soy-protein shake twice a day for 12 weeks, they gained an equal amount of muscle mass as those who consumed a whey-protein shake twice a day. Plus, the soy protein had NO effects on their testosterone or estrogen levels.'

    I can email you the complete article as it gives a complete run down on all protein sources that are available.
  • mikey_101

    Posts: 250

    Jan 10, 2012 9:18 AM GMT
    Do you not question the validity of the article from a company that is trying to sell you the product?

    Its self review realy.
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    Jan 10, 2012 9:23 AM GMT
    I am proud that there is a section of the RJ forums that is focused enough to avoid the obvious, lewd inferences regarding protein sources that you could consume.

    Oooops. Until now. My bad. icon_redface.gif
  • mikey_101

    Posts: 250

    Jan 10, 2012 9:29 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    I don't typically eat soy either.


    I am strict vegetarian and would never conside rsoy as a food source. My diet is as natural as possible - soy protein powder, tofu, textured soy chunks etc are just way too processed for me to even consider them as food.

    Add in the possible estrogen mimicing and its totaly off my list.

    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidIt's still a plant based protein and therefore does not have the ideal ratio of amino acids as one can obtain from animal based proteins. It has a better amino acid profile than other plant based proteins but it is still not as ideal as an animal source.


    Although Hemp alone doesn not have the correct complete protein ratios, when mixed with milk, a variety of ground nuts and seeds and good quality oats, the balance cannot be too far off.








  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 10, 2012 10:12 AM GMT
    mikey_101 saidDo you not question the validity of the article from a company that is trying to sell you the product?

    Its self review realy.


    Quite aware of that possibility but when cross referenced with other source material, it is valid information.

    Yes The Vitamin Shoppe is trying to sell a product and if anything I don't care that they push so many supplements but I give the company credit for giving valid information regarding the products it sells.
  • mikey_101

    Posts: 250

    Jan 10, 2012 10:20 AM GMT
    Would you accept the same information from a Pharmacutical company who was selling a drug?

    Its easy to pay for reaserch that will find exactly the answer you want for the product you are selling.

    Also, I would bet that this vendor sells products containing Aspartame, Maltodextrin, GMO's, artificial flavours and MSG.

    There is for and against evidence on these things also, but I'm not interested in consuming them.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 10, 2012 1:41 PM GMT
    Why not just consume whey? It's more bioavailable than soy and there's not even the suggestion of estrogen mimicking effects.
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    Jan 10, 2012 2:10 PM GMT
    Whether you believe soy mimics estrogen or not, it is highly processed (most likely GMO) and highly acidic/inflaming to the body, just like whey protein.
    If you incorporate more plant based protein (hemp, rice, pea) and foods like quinoa, Sacha inchi seeds, chlorella, they are much easier to digest and more neutral. Hemp has the amino acid edestin, and it's nutritional profile closest resembles our own human plasma.

    Hope that helps.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 11, 2012 4:24 AM GMT
    mikey_101 saidWould you accept the same information from a Pharmacutical company who was selling a drug?

    Its easy to pay for reaserch that will find exactly the answer you want for the product you are selling.

    Also, I would bet that this vendor sells products containing Aspartame, Maltodextrin, GMO's, artificial flavours and MSG.

    There is for and against evidence on these things also, but I'm not interested in consuming them.




    If I didn't have other information to cross reference then I'd be inclined to accept until otherwise proven.

    Take Vitamin Shoppe out of the picture and there is still research to support that Soy doesn't cause estrogen like effects.

  • mikey_101

    Posts: 250

    Jan 11, 2012 10:40 AM GMT
    ]
    ssguy69 said
    mikey_101 saidWould you accept the same information from a Pharmacutical company who was selling a drug?

    Its easy to pay for reaserch that will find exactly the answer you want for the product you are selling.

    Also, I would bet that this vendor sells products containing Aspartame, Maltodextrin, GMO's, artificial flavours and MSG.

    There is for and against evidence on these things also, but I'm not interested in consuming them.




    If I didn't have other information to cross reference then I'd be inclined to accept until otherwise proven.

    I think this is quite a worrying..... to believe marketing hype and self reviewed reaserch is a very dangerous and potentialy deadly way to view the world.

    Take Vitamin Shoppe out of the picture and there is still research to support that Soy doesn't cause estrogen like effects.

    and vice-versa........ is it realy worth the risk?





    I guess its each to their own... the OP was looking for options - "Beyond Soy Protein" was the thread title.

    Like someone above has said,and added a little science to my assertation - Hemp is a great source of extra protein.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 12, 2012 11:06 PM GMT
    mikey_101 saidHuh... hemp has more estrogen than the pill.

    Where are you at?


    South Australia - Most of the pot here is hydro and full of chemicals.
  • QUiKAZN

    Posts: 2

    Feb 23, 2012 5:39 PM GMT
    lol i mix iso mass with soy milk since i don't like the taste of it with water and im lactose. i don't feel any PMSing of any kind
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    Feb 23, 2012 5:45 PM GMT
    It's a total Right Wing lie perpetuated by one of those mega church pulpit pounders five or six years back as some explanation for why there are gay kids; by that logic, forcing butch girls to gorge themselves on soy should turn them into sorority girls any day now.

    Don't believe a word of it, and also, quit shopping at that store staffed with idiot clerks who read WorldNetDaily and have zero fundamental understanding of human sexuality.
  • dancedancekj

    Posts: 1761

    Feb 23, 2012 5:50 PM GMT
    Here's a study showing soy protein or at least phytic acid containing foods inhibit iron absorption, as opposed to egg whites.

    http://www.ajcn.org/content/56/3/573.short