NAIAS - 2013 Cadillac ATS

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    Jan 08, 2012 6:49 PM GMT
    http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f63/naias-2013-cadillac-ats-108049/

    I like, but they didn't push far enough. Balanced but too conservative.

    Who is going next saturday (first public day)?

    http://www.naias.com/the-2012-show/public-show.aspx
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    Jan 08, 2012 7:12 PM GMT
    Looks Nice... a good competitor for the C-class and 3-series. Although it's kinda in the same line as the XTS with that hideous grille.icon_neutral.gif

    What's going on with Cadillac? What happen to the dramatic sharp edges of the grille from the CTS, SRX and Escalade Platinum??? This looks too Meh. And I love Cadillacs.
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    Jan 08, 2012 8:46 PM GMT
    I really like Cadillac's design of the last couple of years, but the ATS is dull. A car for people to old to drive BMW.
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    Jan 08, 2012 8:48 PM GMT
    bhp91126 saidI really like Cadillac's design of the last couple of years, but the ATS is dull. A car for people to old to drive BMW.


    And the new Ultimate Gay Machine is also being introduced next week.
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    Jan 08, 2012 10:25 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    bhp91126 saidI really like Cadillac's design of the last couple of years, but the ATS is dull. A car for people to old to drive BMW.


    And the new Ultimate Gay Machine is also being introduced next week.

    do tell. I'm hitting blanks
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    Jan 08, 2012 10:52 PM GMT
    Basically, mini CTS. Honestly, I kinda like it. But the lines aren't quite as aggressive. Performance is kinda meh, but it's an entry level luxury car so I guess it's sufficient. And interior is typical GM blandness. icon_confused.gif

    I think this will steal away customers looking to get a Chrysler 300. Or a Buick. But not anyone looking to get a BMW or MB.

    OhArq.jpg

    fqORF.jpg

    BXXfx.jpg
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    Jan 09, 2012 12:25 AM GMT
    It's not bad looking, but I just can't get excited over it. It's as if they are playing it way too safe.

    Oh, and I'll be there at NAIAS too. icon_cool.gif
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    Jan 09, 2012 12:37 AM GMT
    carnut saidIt's not bad looking, but I just can't get excited over it. It's as if they are playing it way too safe.

    Oh, and I'll be there at NAIAS too. icon_cool.gif


    I'm there as soon as the doors open next Saturday ...... before the knobs are stolen and the interiors are slashed.
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    Jan 09, 2012 1:29 AM GMT
    There will always be the CTS-V with it's 556 HP and price point which is far better than that boring M5 in all aspects.
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    Jan 09, 2012 1:57 AM GMT
    carnut saidIt's not bad looking, but I just can't get excited over it. It's as if they are playing it way too safe.

    Oh, and I'll be there at NAIAS too. icon_cool.gif


    Weather permitting, I'll go up Friday afternoon and stay in Royal Oak then go to Mr. Bs Pub on S Main for a bite to eat and a few brews. Mr. B's is fun and friendly. Many really hot chicks about half my age and they love to talk.

    http://www.mrbspub.com/

    Then I'll be at the Cobo front door at 8:45 Saturday morning. It doesn't get real crowded until 11:30 or 12:00.
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    Jan 09, 2012 2:07 AM GMT
    bosjock90 saidIt's nice to see they're trying. I for one just never have and don't think I ever will like the boxy edges on Caddys. It's flattering that they're trying to dethrone BMW. I think they need to realize it's not necessarily raw performance numbers like horsepower or price that will help them, but an established brand and actual track times.

    I'm interested and will stay tuned. They had a rough few years transitioning away from the elderly crowd to the hip luxury segment, so maybe this will continue to move them in the right direction.


    I’m pioneer in that I put 1,800 passes each on my 93 STS and then my 95 STS and ran the Silver State in my 97 Deville Cooncours, but now they’ve generated genuine street creed with their performance. The car guys know they’re serious both for road racing and drag racing and very competitive.

    That's me in my purdy helmet

    scan0004-1.jpg

    95STS-1.jpg

    95STSv95ZR-1-1.jpg
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    Jan 09, 2012 2:08 AM GMT
    Cadillac is just following what the Germans already started, making sausages of different lengths. The same as how an A4 is just a smaller A6 which in turn is a smaller A8.

    I don't see why this hasn't become common knowledge but a CTS-V pretty much eats comparable Germans for lunch. And I hate to break it to ya but a Mustang also butt rapes the M3 these days..

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    Jan 09, 2012 2:16 AM GMT
    This Caddy looks interesting, but I hope they can avoid the douchebag wannabe type reputation that plague German luxury cars, especially with their lower end models.

    It was like a scene from The Sopranos where Tony, after looking at a new Mercedes, turns to the sales lady and says, "This car's for a douchebag, isn't it?"

    And before I get flamed, let me say that I owned a BMW once, so I'm not calling anybody a douchebag....I'm just saying that BMW, Benz and Audi have a certain reputation that I hope Cadillac can avoid.






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    Jan 09, 2012 2:32 AM GMT
    Thanks for posting! I was stoked for the unveiling of the ATS, but after looking at the photos I am a bit disappointed. I think they really played it safe. I was hoping for something edgier, but right now I think they played it too conservative. The performance is something that the moment is receiving mixed reviews. I will hold my final opinion until I am able to see one up close and personal.

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    Jan 09, 2012 2:32 AM GMT
    bosjock90 said
    FastlaneKid saidThere will always be the CTS-V with it's 556 HP and price point which is far better than that boring M5 in all aspects.


    I think that perspective is that of Caddy, and while they may be experiencing a come back, they won't threaten the likes of Mercedes and BMW, or even Audi. Numbers alone aren't what compel someone in a purchase decision.

    That said, if you're going to draw comparisons, it's fair that you look at the facts on each side.

    Nurburgring Ring Times:

    2012 M5 (Pre-Release): 7:54
    2009 CTS-V: 7:59
    2005 M5: 8:13


    The 2005 M5 was overdue for an upgrade when the 2009 CTS-V was relased, and is actually about to be updated to the public as redesigned in a matter of months. The new M5 is slightly lighter per horsepower (and BMW has underrated their turbocharged engines anywhere from 30-50 hp in recent years) compared to the CTS-V, and even when the CTS-V had an edge on the older M5, the older M5 easily held it's own, losing the 0-60 and quarter mile by under .1 seconds.

    I wouldn't call that a great feat by Caddy - marginally beating a car that is four years old, especially when Caddy had to resort to supercharging a V10 where as the M5 used a plain old naturally aspirated V8. If you gave BMW a stab at using super or turbocharging and also a V10, it would easily spank Caddy. No one beats BMW at their own game, and that is designing kickass engines.

    To each their own I guess, but I think the general public will find the BMW more attractive and a better option overall, so naturally they can command a higher price and profit margin.

    I would just pray that Caddy has something up their sleeves for the next CTS-V



    Correction: Cadillac doesn't put a V10 into its cars. It's a supercharged V8 that spanked the V10 BMW. Admirable to say the least.
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    Jan 09, 2012 2:33 AM GMT
    ATC84 saidCadillac is just following what the Germans already started, making sausages of different lengths. The same as how an A4 is just a smaller A6 which in turn is a smaller A8.


    And that will end to an extent when the Ciel or whatever they end up calling it is out. I just hope with the next CTS that they push a little further and the car has a bit more reach.

    What is great for their street creed is that a huge percentage of CTSv owners race their cars





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    Jan 09, 2012 2:34 AM GMT
    xrichx saidBasically, mini CTS. Honestly, I kinda like it. But the lines aren't quite as aggressive. Performance is kinda meh, but it's an entry level luxury car so I guess it's sufficient. And interior is typical GM blandness. icon_confused.gif

    I think this will steal away customers looking to get a Chrysler 300. Or a Buick. But not anyone looking to get a BMW or MB.

    OhArq.jpg

    fqORF.jpg

    BXXfx.jpg


    Being that this model has yet to be test driven, how can you say: 'Performance is kinda meh'?

    Seriously-somebody is going to cross shop a Chrysler 300 (full size car) against a compact sized ATS!!!???icon_confused.gif
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    Jan 09, 2012 2:34 AM GMT
    bosjock90 said
    freedomisntfree said
    bosjock90 saidIt's nice to see they're trying. I for one just never have and don't think I ever will like the boxy edges on Caddys. It's flattering that they're trying to dethrone BMW. I think they need to realize it's not necessarily raw performance numbers like horsepower or price that will help them, but an established brand and actual track times.

    I'm interested and will stay tuned. They had a rough few years transitioning away from the elderly crowd to the hip luxury segment, so maybe this will continue to move them in the right direction.


    I’m pioneer in that I put 1,800 passes each on my 93 STS and then my 95 STS and ran the Silver State in my 97 Deville Cooncours, but now they’ve generated genuine street creed with their performance. The car guys know they’re serious both for road racing and drag racing and very competitive.

    That's me in my purdy helmet

    scan0004-1.jpg

    95STS-1.jpg

    95STSv95ZR-1-1.jpg


    Hmm, really? I know Caddy's, like some other American cars, have been good at drag racing and going fast in straight lines. But until the CTS-V, I don't really know of any serious attempts by American Manufacturers to act as full-fledged track cars that can match the handling of their German or even now Japanese counterparts.


    Where you been the last 5 or 6 years? Things change. Japan is fading.
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    Jan 09, 2012 2:43 AM GMT
    bosjock90 said
    FastlaneKid saidThere will always be the CTS-V with it's 556 HP and price point which is far better than that boring M5 in all aspects.


    I think that perspective is that of Caddy, and while they may be experiencing a come back, they won't threaten the likes of Mercedes and BMW, or even Audi. Numbers alone aren't what compel someone in a purchase decision.

    That said, if you're going to draw comparisons, it's fair that you look at the facts on each side.

    Nurburgring Ring Times:

    2012 M5 (Pre-Release): 7:54
    2009 CTS-V: 7:59
    2005 M5: 8:13


    The 2005 M5 was overdue for an upgrade when the 2009 CTS-V was relased, and is actually about to be updated to the public as redesigned in a matter of months. The new M5 is slightly lighter per horsepower (and BMW has underrated their turbocharged engines anywhere from 30-50 hp in recent years) compared to the CTS-V, and even when the CTS-V had an edge on the older M5, the older M5 easily held it's own, losing the 0-60 and quarter mile by under .1 seconds.

    I wouldn't call that a great feat by Caddy - marginally beating a car that is four years old, especially when Caddy had to resort to supercharging a V10 where as the M5 used a plain old naturally aspirated V8. If you gave BMW a stab at using super or turbocharging and also a V10, it would easily spank Caddy. No one beats BMW at their own game, and that is designing kickass engines.

    To each their own I guess, but I think the general public will find the BMW more attractive and a better option overall, so naturally they can command a higher price and profit margin.

    I would just pray that Caddy has something up their sleeves for the next CTS-V



    "No one beats BMW at their own game"

    And that IS cruising Santa Monica Blvd in West Hollywood. BMW - the Ultimate Gay Machine.
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    Jan 09, 2012 2:53 AM GMT
    Don't like it. Too conservative and incohesive in its design. It's like an automotive mullet: Camry on top, CTS on bottom. There's no edginess to the design. Looks more like Caddie's target market are those shopping for a Camry, Accord, Sonata, or Malibu. And the interior already has that been-there-done-that look since it looks so much like previous Caddies.
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    Jan 09, 2012 2:54 AM GMT
    run the CTS v on these tires. They picked up another six second in the ZR1.

    I will say that Jim Mero is good!



    If my math scores had been better and I'd pursued engineering, this is exactly what I would have wanted to do
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    Jan 09, 2012 2:58 AM GMT
    bosjock90 said

    I think that perspective is that of Caddy, and while they may be experiencing a come back, they won't threaten the likes of Mercedes and BMW, or even Audi. Numbers alone aren't what compel someone in a purchase decision.

    That said, if you're going to draw comparisons, it's fair that you look at the facts on each side.

    Nurburgring Ring Times:

    2012 M5 (Pre-Release): 7:54
    2009 CTS-V: 7:59
    2005 M5: 8:13


    Have you driven around the ring?

    Do you track luxury cars as a hobby?

    If not then I don't see why this is anything more than chest beating. The majority of shoppers wouldn't even know what the term ring times meant if asked. Cadillac like Lexus has learned that shoppers consider anything European to be of greater luxury and prestige than a similar product from America, Japan, or Korea. In order to complete at this level Cadillac must build cars size matched to German offers (The CTS was more of a tweeener - 5er sized at 3er pricing). The ATS looks fairly dull but it will have nicer wheel offerings and the eventual V trim which will no doubt look much for down for mean business.

    If anything the fact people flaunt ring times these days is a sign of how much the rest of the world has caught up to BMW or MB. Audi meanwhile isn't on the same level either, Tier 1 or the top mass luxury brands are BMW, MB, and Lexus.
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    Jan 09, 2012 3:06 AM GMT
    bosjock90 said
    freedomisntfree said
    bosjock90 said
    freedomisntfree said
    bosjock90 saidIt's nice to see they're trying. I for one just never have and don't think I ever will like the boxy edges on Caddys. It's flattering that they're trying to dethrone BMW. I think they need to realize it's not necessarily raw performance numbers like horsepower or price that will help them, but an established brand and actual track times.

    I'm interested and will stay tuned. They had a rough few years transitioning away from the elderly crowd to the hip luxury segment, so maybe this will continue to move them in the right direction.


    I’m pioneer in that I put 1,800 passes each on my 93 STS and then my 95 STS and ran the Silver State in my 97 Deville Cooncours, but now they’ve generated genuine street creed with their performance. The car guys know they’re serious both for road racing and drag racing and very competitive.

    That's me in my purdy helmet

    scan0004-1.jpg

    95STS-1.jpg

    95STSv95ZR-1-1.jpg


    Hmm, really? I know Caddy's, like some other American cars, have been good at drag racing and going fast in straight lines. But until the CTS-V, I don't really know of any serious attempts by American Manufacturers to act as full-fledged track cars that can match the handling of their German or even now Japanese counterparts.


    Where you been the last 5 or 6 years? Things change. Japan is fading.


    Fading? I know you are a Caddy fan, but at least wake up and see the picture from a global perspective. The Japanese GTR spanks both the CTS-V and M5. The LFA doesn't seem too crappy at all either, beating anything the Americans have to offer.

    And I don't want to see "well the vette beats everything!", because the LFA beats it, and the Germans don't really have a 2 seater watered down sports car.

    At least as of today, the 2012 M5 beats the 2009 CTS-V, but Japan has them trumped with the GTR.


    The sinfully ugly GTR still gets slaughtered by the 8 year old C6
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    Jan 09, 2012 3:07 AM GMT
    ssguy69 said
    Being that this model has yet to be test driven, how can you say: 'Performance is kinda meh'?

    Seriously-somebody is going to cross shop a Chrysler 300 (full size car) against a compact sized ATS!!!???icon_confused.gif
    I was referring to horsepower and engine configuration.

    And yes, people do cross shop by price and perceived status. I do believe that a Caddy is more "prestigious" than a Chrysler. Cadillac has a better brand reputation for luxury cars than Chrysler.
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    Jan 09, 2012 3:10 AM GMT
    bosjock90 said
    ssguy69 said
    bosjock90 said
    FastlaneKid saidThere will always be the CTS-V with it's 556 HP and price point which is far better than that boring M5 in all aspects.


    I think that perspective is that of Caddy, and while they may be experiencing a come back, they won't threaten the likes of Mercedes and BMW, or even Audi. Numbers alone aren't what compel someone in a purchase decision.

    That said, if you're going to draw comparisons, it's fair that you look at the facts on each side.

    Nurburgring Ring Times:

    2012 M5 (Pre-Release): 7:54
    2009 CTS-V: 7:59
    2005 M5: 8:13


    The 2005 M5 was overdue for an upgrade when the 2009 CTS-V was relased, and is actually about to be updated to the public as redesigned in a matter of months. The new M5 is slightly lighter per horsepower (and BMW has underrated their turbocharged engines anywhere from 30-50 hp in recent years) compared to the CTS-V, and even when the CTS-V had an edge on the older M5, the older M5 easily held it's own, losing the 0-60 and quarter mile by under .1 seconds.

    I wouldn't call that a great feat by Caddy - marginally beating a car that is four years old, especially when Caddy had to resort to supercharging a V10 where as the M5 used a plain old naturally aspirated V8. If you gave BMW a stab at using super or turbocharging and also a V10, it would easily spank Caddy. No one beats BMW at their own game, and that is designing kickass engines.

    To each their own I guess, but I think the general public will find the BMW more attractive and a better option overall, so naturally they can command a higher price and profit margin.

    I would just pray that Caddy has something up their sleeves for the next CTS-V



    Correction: Cadillac doesn't put a V10 into its cars. It's a supercharged V8 that spanked the V10 BMW. Admirable to say the least.


    Sorry about that typo. Doesn't really change the argument though. And as said before, the CTS-V didn't really spank the four year older M5.

    The BMW turbocharged V8 that is rated at 560 will put down close to 600. For evidence of this, look at the 2007+ turbocharged 335i's. They're rated at 300hp and easily put down 330hp+.

    Caddy will not be able to squeeze much more out of their V8, so I hope they have something up their sleeve. Maybe a supercharged V10?


    God NO not a V10

    You think? Since you're a knowlegable GM engineer, are you going to be at NAIAS Saturday. You really think that they are near the end with the LSA?

    How bout the upcoming Gen 5 DI LS?