Masculine guys are ONLY masculine because they're afraid to be effeminate

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    Jan 09, 2012 2:06 AM GMT
    Yeah, apparently being effeminate is actually the norm we should all strive to be, and if any of us are not effeminate, we are only being masculine because we are afraid to belt out Donna Summer tunes (according to one poster) or otherwise because we are afraid to let our true effeminacy show.

    So question to you masculine type dudes, for how many of you is this really true? Are you only masculine because you are afraid to be your true and fundamental effeminate self?

    Apparently a lot of masculine dudes are still in the closet and afraid to be seen as gay by society. So you hide behind your masculinity in order to prevent being attacked by society at large.

    So question to you masculine type dudes, for how many of you is this really true? Are you only masculine because you are afraid that society will judge you negatively?

    Apparently, a lot of masculine guys are unwilling to hang out with, associate with, or otherwise spend time with effeminate dudes because doing so will somehow make them reflect upon themselves and realize that they too are truly effeminate deep down inside and they are too afraid to let that effeminacy develop.

    So question to you masculine type dudes, for how many of you is this really true? Do you avoid associating with effeminate dudes because you are afraid that if you did so, you would develop your natural latent effeminacy?

    Apparently, it is far healthier and psychologically stable to make your sexuality the prime focus of your life and the key defining characteristic of who you are as an individual. If you fail to define yourself first and foremost as homosexual, then you are being self-homophobic and are afraid to accept your sexuality, to cherish and celebrate it, and to fly it in the face of society at large and be proud of who you really are deep down: an effeminate gay man.

    So question for you masculine type dudes, for how many of you is this really true? Are you unwilling to accept your sexuality and as a result, you are afraid to define yourself primarily as a gay man and thus you hide your true effeminacy behind a thin veneer of masculinity, again, because you cannot accept your sexuality?

    Finally, apparently only effeminate dudes are what truly represent the non-straight spectrum of society. Why? Because all the masculine dudes hide in the closet and only bash effeminate guys because they are too afraid to appreciate, admire, or otherwise worship their strength and determination when they piss off straight folks and honor their commitment to our cause and their representation of us to society at large.

    So question to you masculine type dudes, for how many of you is this really true? Are you in the closet and if so, are you in the closet because you are afraid to honor the sacrifices that effeminate gay dudes have made on your behalf so that you can let out your inner effeminacy and be who you are truly meant to be... just like them.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Jan 09, 2012 2:11 AM GMT
    I yam what I yam.
    --Popeye the sailor man
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    Jan 09, 2012 2:13 AM GMT
    aedile245 said

    Apparently, it is far healthier and psychologically stable to make your sexuality the prime focus of your life and the key defining characteristic of who you are as an individual. If you fail to define yourself as homosexual, then you are being self-homophobic and are afraid to accept your sexuality, to cherish and celebrate it, and to fly it in the face of society at large and be proud of who you really are deep down: an effeminate gay man.



    I'll never understand the people who make being gay their whole life. I know a guy who was relatively normal it seemed. He then came out of the closet and wears rainbow shit everywhere, has rainbow flags all over his apartment, goes to gay bars every night, claims that I haven't accepted myself because I don't do the same. WTF. Why do these people have to shove their gayness down others throats? Who knows. Maybe they want attention. Finally, I'm not afraid of becoming "fem", I just don't find it appealing to hang with someone who makes it their whole life.
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    Jan 09, 2012 2:17 AM GMT
    I'm still me. I just like to fuck guys.
    That me happens to be predominately masculine, but I have my gay...er...feminine moments.
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    Jan 09, 2012 2:33 AM GMT
    mikkeb said
    aedile245 said

    Apparently, it is far healthier and psychologically stable to make your sexuality the prime focus of your life and the key defining characteristic of who you are as an individual. If you fail to define yourself as homosexual, then you are being self-homophobic and are afraid to accept your sexuality, to cherish and celebrate it, and to fly it in the face of society at large and be proud of who you really are deep down: an effeminate gay man.



    I'll never understand the people who make being gay their whole life. I know a guy who was relatively normal it seemed. He then came out of the closet and wears rainbow shit everywhere, has rainbow flags all over his apartment, goes to gay bars every night, claims that I haven't accepted myself because I don't do the same. WTF. Why do these people have to shove their gayness down others throats? Who knows. Maybe they want attention. Finally, I'm not afraid of becoming "fem", I just don't find it appealing to hang with someone who makes it their whole life.


    Well exactly, and I agree. But according to some on the effeminate side of the fence, we are really just hiding who we are because we are afraid to be our true selves, which according to them, is being as openly gay and effeminate as they are. Again, we are only masculine (according to those who put forth this view) because we are afraid to accept our sexuality, make it our prime defining characteristic, and are internally homophobic because we refuse to be like them.

    So my question to them is this. Would you rather I be my real self, which happens to be a masculine dude into other dudes, or be a fake effeminate dude? And if the latter, to what end? For what purpose?
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    Jan 09, 2012 2:44 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidThere are rarely any depictions of masculine gay men in the media or on tv, and when they are cast in movie roles, they are usually depicted as totally screwed up individuals. This began a long time ago with characters like those in 'Making Love', 'Dog Day Afternoon', 'Cruising', 'La Cage Aux Folles, 'The Bird Cage' etc, etc. and there has never been any outcry from the gay community for being stereo typed by Hollywood, because they figure any air time is better than no time. And gay Hollywood looks to profit off the money of the straight community. The fact is, is that many of the male gay community started out as masculine men, and many in my opinion have fallen to playing out the stereo type of gay in order to both fit it and be recognized by the gay community.


    Agreed, but then the question must be asked, why do we allow ourselves to be portrayed like this? I know the more effeminate dudes probably don't see it as a stereotype when a straight guy is cast as the promiscuous queeny gay dude who talks with a high pitch fake effeminate voice and otherwise acts out every possible gay stereotype that's been around since the early age of film. I'd ask why, but I think it's fairly obvious why they wouldn't be offended by something that depicts them as, more or less, what they are in their daily lives. (This is not to say ALL effeminate guys fit that stereotype, but this comment is directed at those who DO).

    So where is the outrage from the silent majority of masculine or otherwise non-stereotypical gay dudes when the entirety of the non-straight part of society is depicted in such a way? Even when gay dudes are depicted as masculine (like Broke Back Mountain) they are still portrayed negatively because they were fooling around on their wives with each other. Society doesn't look favorably on that (granted, society is becoming more and more accepting of infidelity in general).

    But the reason the masculine dudes don't organize and protest/boycott is because we don't use our sexuality to define us, so we don't, generally, let it get to us that Hollywood wants to display gay men in a negatively stereotypical manner, because we know such a depiction doesn't represent us either. But that said, we should get out there more and show society that we are NOT all the same, that the more militant effeminate types DO NOT represent us, and that gay or otherwise non-straight men can define themselves a myriad of different ways besides defining themselves by their sexual preferences.

    This, in my opinion, is the next greatest challenge of the non-straight community: that we come in many different aspects and that a small and vocally militant minority doesn't represent us as a whole.
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    Jan 09, 2012 2:49 AM GMT
    Obvious flamebait is obvious.

    Dont feed the trolls fellas!
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    Jan 09, 2012 3:06 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidWhen I go to gay pride and see literally thousands and thousands of gay men celebrating pride, I have to honestly say that only about 2 or 3% are effeminate acting, but about less than 1% are extremely masculinity, and all the rest fit the general normal masculinity of straight society, so I'm not really sure why there is such an over emphasis that effeminate is the norm of the gay community.


    This response reminds me of a clip from the Daily Show when Minneapolis was announced as the gayest city in the US and San Francisco was pissed:

    The Daily Show With Jon StewartMon - Thurs 11p / 10c
    Minneapolis Is the New Gay
    www.thedailyshow.com
    Daily Show Full EpisodesPolitical Humor & Satire BlogThe Daily Show on Facebook



  • GAYBIGMACHODU...

    Posts: 1357

    Jan 09, 2012 3:22 AM GMT
    I'm totally masculine.I don't have a feminine side at all.I'm a man's man.I
    find totally masculine gay single men like myself attractive.Feminine men,
    semi feminine men,semi masculine,and totally feminine men turns me off.
    Men that looks like women,dresses like women,and acts like women turns
    me off.I won't date any feminine men at all.
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    Jan 09, 2012 3:55 AM GMT
    I am who I am and I'm genuinely not trying to be anybody else. I love watching football. I also have Lady Gaga on my workout playlist (at least her old stuff). And I have no problem admitting either.
  • Generaleclect...

    Posts: 504

    Jan 09, 2012 3:56 AM GMT
    Honestly, I think every gay guy has some femininity in them, in different degrees. People tend to think in absolutes, and that's where all the bickering comes from.

    I think I'm fairly masculine, but I've had my moments (and still do). I don't obsess over how I come off to people, and I don't code switch. I am what I am.

    I don't think effeminacy is the root of gayness, but I'm sure some people either butch it up or camp it up, for whatever reason.
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    Jan 09, 2012 4:06 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    Chainers saidObvious flamebait is obvious.

    Dont feed the trolls fellas!

    Idk, this one's actually a tangent from a few posts in another thread. It's not horrible that it's its own thread now...it's definitely a convo many of us have had to death, but it's obviously still new to some guys.


    Ive seen the convos, its totally blowing everything out of proportion, the OP is a troll, nothing more.
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    Jan 09, 2012 4:18 AM GMT
    mikkeb said
    aedile245 said

    Apparently, it is far healthier and psychologically stable to make your sexuality the prime focus of your life and the key defining characteristic of who you are as an individual. If you fail to define yourself as homosexual, then you are being self-homophobic and are afraid to accept your sexuality, to cherish and celebrate it, and to fly it in the face of society at large and be proud of who you really are deep down: an effeminate gay man.



    I'll never understand the people who make being gay their whole life. I know a guy who was relatively normal it seemed. He then came out of the closet and wears rainbow shit everywhere, has rainbow flags all over his apartment, goes to gay bars every night, claims that I haven't accepted myself because I don't do the same. WTF. Why do these people have to shove their gayness down others throats? Who knows. Maybe they want attention. Finally, I'm not afraid of becoming "fem", I just don't find it appealing to hang with someone who makes it their whole life.



    So what if he wants to wear rainbow shit everywhere, have rainbow flags in his apartment, and go to gay bars every night? How is that shoving it down anyone's throat and how does it affect you? It's his life, not yours.
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    Jan 09, 2012 4:31 AM GMT
    I don't believe I ever gave much thought to it. I tend to think that being genuine about who you are, regardless of if that makes you effeminate or masculine, is more respectable and valuable than assimilating to some other person's idea of what you should be.

    I prefer to be genuine at all times, and within that preference I would have to say that I'm not too worried about what other people think I should be. If I am to believe that I am a decent person then I have to believe that it is genuineness, among other values, that makes me worthy to love and be loved by other people. I do not place a lot of value on being disingenuous.
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    Jan 09, 2012 10:43 AM GMT
    Iceblink said
    mikkeb said
    aedile245 said

    Apparently, it is far healthier and psychologically stable to make your sexuality the prime focus of your life and the key defining characteristic of who you are as an individual. If you fail to define yourself as homosexual, then you are being self-homophobic and are afraid to accept your sexuality, to cherish and celebrate it, and to fly it in the face of society at large and be proud of who you really are deep down: an effeminate gay man.



    I'll never understand the people who make being gay their whole life. I know a guy who was relatively normal it seemed. He then came out of the closet and wears rainbow shit everywhere, has rainbow flags all over his apartment, goes to gay bars every night, claims that I haven't accepted myself because I don't do the same. WTF. Why do these people have to shove their gayness down others throats? Who knows. Maybe they want attention. Finally, I'm not afraid of becoming "fem", I just don't find it appealing to hang with someone who makes it their whole life.



    So what if he wants to wear rainbow shit everywhere, have rainbow flags in his apartment, and go to gay bars every night? How is that shoving it down anyone's throat and how does it affect you? It's his life, not yours.


    I think the "shoving it down others throats" part comes when he said "He then came out of the closet and wears rainbow shit everywhere, has rainbow flags all over his apartment, goes to gay bars every night, claims that I haven't accepted myself because I don't do the same."

    This is a common theme from those who hold that view, that unless you are as into the scene as they are, then you haven't really accepted your sexuality and you're only hiding your sexuality behind a thin veneer of masculinity.

    So it's one thing that these folks want to be as into the scene as they are, but it's another to demand people not comfortable in that environment need to do the same lest they are merely unwilling to accept their sexuality and are merely hiding their effeminacy.
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    Jan 09, 2012 10:46 AM GMT
    This is stupid.
    Anybody who doesn't "believe" that another person isn't being themselves is a dumbass.
    Even cowards and closetfags are just being themselves. (NOT SAYING THAT YOU ARE EITHER.)
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    Jan 09, 2012 10:47 AM GMT
    I just act like me.

    I don't hang out with fem guys often because, well, they're cattier than actual females, and they talk in a condescending tone to anyone less overtly/culturally gay than they are. No thanks.
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    Jan 09, 2012 11:08 AM GMT
    I thought of another point to bring up. This argument that I read on the other thread that masculine guys are only masculine because they are unwilling to be their true effeminate selves is no different an argument than heterosexual guys are heterosexual because they are unwilling to be homosexual.

    Sadly, for a group that wants to claim that homosexuality isn't a choice ("Why would I CHOOSE to be gay?" I commonly hear), they likewise seem to think that homophobes, for example, are deeply closeted homosexuals who are too afraid to accept their sexuality. Is it not possible that they are people who just really hate gay people rather than they are too afraid to admit they want a d*ck up their bums?

    The point of me making my original point on this thread is that there is a certain faction among the more effeminate types that seems to think that masculinity is a choice (much like homosexuality) and that we are merely choosing to be masculine because we are too afraid to be our true effeminate selves. They seem to imply that being effeminate should be the norm of being gay, discounting all those among the non-straight spectrum who do not fit that category, by stating that we're just covering our true effeminacy with our facade of masculinity.

    This was pretty clear to me towards the end of the other thread talking about "Gay hate towards flamers!" where several posters were in substantial agreement with the following post:

    If anyone has a negative attitude about effeminate guys, you may want to examine how you see yourself? Is it that you think they are negative, or are you terrified that society will identify you as similar to them. Reflect on WHY you think negatively about them and you will almost certainly learm something about yourself.


    So by appearances, it seems to me at least that the implication here is that we are masculine merely to distance ourselves from the effeminate types.

    Could it not be entirely possible that our masculinity/effeminacy comes as natural to us as our sexual preferences and that as a result, we tend to gravitate toward others who share a similar set of interests, outlooks, mannerisms, and persona? Is it possible that some masculine guys choose to avoid the gay scene not because they are trying to avoid the queeny effeminate dudes that have the ability to thrive in that environment, but because they are not as comfortable in that environment as those queeny effeminate dudes?

    Another poster on that thread made the point that he feels more accepted by heterosexual men than masculine gay men. I agree since I feel more accepted by heterosexual men than effeminate gay men. And here's the reason why you are more accepted by heterosexuals - you're not trying to change them and not trying to them they're not gay enough (although, again, there is a faction among the effeminate types who seem to think that heterosexual men are potentially gay - and yet the reverse never seems to be true in their minds).

    Here's the main point: when you tell someone they're wrong for being who they are, you're going to get push back. This works both ways. I don't like to associate with effeminate guys, but I'm not going to tell them to change who they are, because I don't really even know if they can change beyond their clothes, mannerisms, and interests - chances are they're voice would be the same since it's largely based on how the vocal chords developed growing up. But that being said, it's no more warranted me or anyone telling them they need to butch themselves up than it is for effeminate types to guilt masculine types into being effeminate by saying that we're afraid to accept our sexuality because they seem to think if we did, we'd turn into effeminate dudes just like them.

    In other words, it seems that the only way to TRULY accept our sexuality is to immerse ourselves in the gay scene and otherwise develop a stereotypical persona, even if it's something that does not come natural to us. My point in this thread is that such an argument is totally bunk.
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    Jan 09, 2012 12:16 PM GMT
    Fems are hot!

    So are masculine guys... but this issue doesn't really matter to me anyway.
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    Jan 09, 2012 12:45 PM GMT
    Webster666 saidI yam what I yam.
    --Popeye the sailor man


    Popeye was masculine, but Bluto was butch. In fact he was a hyper masculine bully so maybe he was overcompensating. Or maybe he was a dominant sadist master who wanted to trap Popeye into sexual slavery.

    Wimpie was sort of fem, but it might have been a put-on to trick people into buying him free hamburgers.

    These gender forums make great reading if you have insomnia.
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    Jan 09, 2012 1:07 PM GMT
    Just yesterday I had a woman friend of mine come up to me in the gym and say, "I have a question for you. Is that guy gay?" I said, yeah. Then she said, "But he does not act gay". I said, But how is a gay guy supposed to act. What about me, you have known me for years, do I act gay? She shrugged her shoulders and said, "no but.!!". I said, I rest my case.

    I have friends all over the rainbow, from effeminate guys to masculine women. I was just talking to a straight guy the other day that is more effeminate than most of my gay friends. There is nothing wrong with any of these folks, they are just who they are or otherwise they would not be my friends. I can not handle those actors.

    I am not going to feel guilty for being on the masculine end of the gay rainbow, it is just who I am and I do not need to draw out some fake femininity to feel gay.
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    Jan 09, 2012 1:15 PM GMT
    jawrhed said
    Webster666 saidI yam what I yam.
    --Popeye the sailor man


    Popeye was masculine, but Bluto was butch. In fact he was a hyper masculine bully so maybe he was overcompensating. Or maybe he was a dominant sadist master who wanted to trap Popeye into sexual slavery.

    Wimpie was sort of fem, but it might have been a put-on to trick people into buying him free hamburgers.

    These gender forums make great reading if you have insomnia.


    Hilarious. I love the imagery.
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    Jan 09, 2012 1:36 PM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidThere are rarely any depictions of masculine gay men in the media or on tv, and when they are cast in movie roles, they are usually depicted as totally screwed up individuals. This began a long time ago with characters like those in 'Making Love', 'Dog Day Afternoon', 'Cruising', 'La Cage Aux Folles, 'The Bird Cage' etc, etc. and there has never been any outcry from the gay community for being stereo typed by Hollywood, because they figure any air time is better than no time. And gay Hollywood looks to profit off the money of the straight community. The fact is, is that many of the male gay community started out as masculine men, and many in my opinion have fallen to playing out the stereo type of gay in order to both fit it and be recognized by the gay community. .... and it's fun to queen it up once in a while ... guys should be able to recognize that ... that really isn't the basis of their identity ... but they get stuck in it .. because it gives them attention.


    I have "become" more feminine recently but only as a result of finally letting out pent up emotions and not being able to act as I want to act, as I really am. It may be that there will be some exaggeration to that expression until it finds its own level, but the fact that I "do it for attention" means nothing other than that, like you, I want to be able to get attention by expressing myself for what I am, not some other stereotype that "macho" gays or straights might prefer either because they are afraid of their own femininity or just don't like it.
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    Jan 09, 2012 2:01 PM GMT
    shitstorm.jpg

    I really don't give a shit personally. I've got some friends who are very "masc/dudeBro" types and others who drop the entire Mac cosmetics product line out of their mouth when they talk. And many more who are somewhere in between.

    But my upbringing and culturization was that men should generally comport themselves like men:

    - take responsibility for your actions
    - speak as men and not as women
    - bear the appearance of a man as opposed to that of a woman (shorter hair, deeper voice, deliberate speech, firm handshake, etc).

    This is not to judge those who fall under the "T" of LGBT (trans-persons) ... they have their needs and quirks which are well beyond my scope of interest.

    All other things being equal however, I generally conform to the generally accepted expectations of (masculine) male behaviour in North America, and tend to befriend and be sexually attracted to the same.

    Relationship and FWB-wise: if I really wanted a catty queeny guy who is fixated only on pop culture and makes a seem fly concerted effort to be effeminate, I'd just go for women.

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    Jan 09, 2012 2:03 PM GMT
    AlphaTrigger saidshitstorm.jpg

    I really don't give a shit personally. I've got some friends who are very "masc/dudeBro" types and others who drop the entire Max cosmetics product line out of their mouth when they talk. And many more who are somewhere in between.

    But my upbringing and culturization was that men should generally comport themselves like men:

    - take responsibility for your actions
    - speak as men and not as women
    - bear the appearance of a man as opposed to that of a woman (shorter hair, deeper voice, deliberate speech, firm handshake, etc).

    This is not to judge those who fall under the "T" of LGBT (trans-persons) ... they have their needs and quirks which are well beyond my scope of interest.

    All other things being equal however, I generally conform to the generally accepted expectations of (masculine) male behaviour in North America, and tend to befriend and be sexually attracted to the same.

    Relationship and FWB-wise: if I really wanted a catty queeny guy who is fixated only on pop culture and makes a seem fly concerted effort to be effeminate, I'd just go for women.



    ^^ Cannot be better expressed. So I'll just latch on to this and agree.