Question for the liberals here

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 09, 2012 7:51 PM GMT
    If Gary Johnson ended up being the GOP candidate and you had to choose between him and Obama who would you vote for?

    Keep in mind Johnson is conservative/libertarian economically but he is also in favor of gay marriage, Obama is not.
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    Jan 09, 2012 8:10 PM GMT
    I would have to look into Johnson more, but it would definitely make me think about it. Buddy Roemer would probably get my vote ahead of Obama.
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    Jan 09, 2012 8:45 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidIf Gary Johnson ended up being the GOP candidate and you had to choose between him and Obama who would you vote for?

    Keep in mind Johnson is conservative/libertarian economically but he is also in favor of gay marriage, Obama is not.



    I would seriously consider voting for Johnson. Even though I'm very much a Progressive, I lean very conservative on fiscal issues. The reason I've always voted on the Democrat ticket is that I see fundamental rights as being more important that money. But I've never seen a candidate who possessed both traits in my lifetime.
  • ozhanSean

    Posts: 186

    Jan 09, 2012 8:45 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidI would have to look into Johnson more, but it would definitely make me think about it. Buddy Roemer would probably get my vote ahead of Obama.


    Even though the presidential elections are not important to me, if I were to to vote, I too would go the Roemer way.
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    Jan 09, 2012 9:45 PM GMT
    That would depend on his stance concerning environmental issues, as that is my top concern, followed by healthcare and gay rights which are like the same for me.
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Jan 09, 2012 9:49 PM GMT
    Obama.

    I doubt Obama would veto a repeal of DOMA if it came across his desk. The DOJ has already stopped defending DOMA.
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    Jan 09, 2012 9:53 PM GMT
    ozhanSean said
    Christian73 saidI would have to look into Johnson more, but it would definitely make me think about it. Buddy Roemer would probably get my vote ahead of Obama.


    Even though the presidential elections are not important to me, if I were to to vote, I too would go the Roemer way.


    I'm talking about a choice between Johnson and Obama. Roemer is not in the equation.

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    Jan 09, 2012 10:03 PM GMT
    After checking out

    http://www.issues2000.org/Gary_Johnson.htm

    Gonna have to stamp him with a big fat "NOPE"

    http://www.issues2000.org/2012/Gary_Johnson_Social_Security.htm

    http://www.issues2000.org/2012/Gary_Johnson_Health_Care.htm

    http://www.issues2000.org/2012/Gary_Johnson_Foreign_Policy.htm

    http://www.issues2000.org/2012/Gary_Johnson_Education.htm


    Dude talks a lot about problems, but not WHY they are problems or how to provide effective solutions, just "IMAGINE!"
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    Jan 13, 2012 5:33 PM GMT
    So having established clearly that the majority of gay liberals on here would still tend to vote democrat (because of differing views on the "big picture") even if it meant postponing their gay rights like marriage equality we can officially end the bullshit from gay liberals on here about how gay conservatives who vote moderately republican (for economic and budget reasons) are "self-haters".
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    Jan 13, 2012 5:36 PM GMT
    Obama.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jan 13, 2012 5:42 PM GMT
    Given the structure of our government ... Meaning that we have a two party system and the absolutely wild righting track the republicans in general have taken
    I cannot see voting for ANY republican for President because of what is at stake mainly having to do with SCOTUS
    Already we have ridiculous findings coming from the Roberts Court .......
    If we have a republican President that ridiculous quotient would get set into stone
    Along with that comes his relationnship with those republican congressmen and women already in the legislature ..... And we have Seen the way they work in the last two administrations

    So to answer your question ...... Lipstick on a pig ain't gonna cut it


    it's still a dang pig
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    Jan 14, 2012 12:27 AM GMT
    GQjock saidGiven the structure of our government ... Meaning that we have a two party system and the absolutely wild righting track the republicans in general have taken
    I cannot see voting for ANY republican for President because of what is at stake mainly having to do with SCOTUS
    Already we have ridiculous findings coming from the Roberts Court .......
    If we have a republican President that ridiculous quotient would get set into stone
    Along with that comes his relationnship with those republican congressmen and women already in the legislature ..... And we have Seen the way they work in the last two administrations

    So to answer your question ...... Lipstick on a pig ain't gonna cut it


    it's still a dang pig


    So you would vote AGAINST gay marriage equality. Got it. So much for the "I put gay rights first" bullshit.
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    Jan 14, 2012 12:56 AM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    GQjock saidGiven the structure of our government ... Meaning that we have a two party system and the absolutely wild righting track the republicans in general have taken
    I cannot see voting for ANY republican for President because of what is at stake mainly having to do with SCOTUS
    Already we have ridiculous findings coming from the Roberts Court .......
    If we have a republican President that ridiculous quotient would get set into stone
    Along with that comes his relationnship with those republican congressmen and women already in the legislature ..... And we have Seen the way they work in the last two administrations

    So to answer your question ...... Lipstick on a pig ain't gonna cut it


    it's still a dang pig


    So you would vote AGAINST gay marriage equality. Got it. So much for the "I put gay rights first" bullshit.




    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    GQjock, I voted for Obama the first time around because he appeared to offer change from the Neo Con Bush War team direction, change and protections from the loss of rights/privacy through programs and new departments Bush instigated for his trumped up war on terror, change from the Corps, Banks, Wall Street, Military/Industrial Complex and lobby's buying policies and legislation in our halls of congress and leading us to sustained war and adding more wars.

    OBAMA DID NOT KEEP HIS WORD, in many ways he kept the Bush Status Quo and in some ways took things several steps further in the wrong direction. Obama is just as bought off by the various monied lobby's as the Republicans.

    Theres so little difference in these two parties other than vote getting rhetoric that its laughable.

    So yes I would vote for the libertarian leaning Johnson,

    Actually I'm hoping Ron Paul steps out and runs independent, Maybe he'd choose Johnson as a running mate, , I don't know, but I hope him and Paul are the start of a viable third party to shake up this sham two party system we have that are both totally bought and paid for.

    Americans are fools to not insist on a change from this corrupt system, so if it means voting for the likes of Johnson and paul to get the ball rolling, I'm all for it.
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    Jan 14, 2012 1:17 AM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    ozhanSean said
    Christian73 saidI would have to look into Johnson more, but it would definitely make me think about it. Buddy Roemer would probably get my vote ahead of Obama.


    Even though the presidential elections are not important to me, if I were to to vote, I too would go the Roemer way.


    I'm talking about a choice between Johnson and Obama. Roemer is not in the equation.



    Between Johnson and Obama, I'd go with Obama. Gay marriage was never my big motivation, and while he's much more moderate on social and economic issues than Obama, he's not really my cup of tea.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3283

    Jan 14, 2012 1:36 AM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidSo having established clearly that the majority of gay liberals on here would still tend to vote democrat (because of differing views on the "big picture") even if it meant postponing their gay rights like marriage equality we can officially end the bullshit from gay liberals on here about how gay conservatives who vote moderately republican (for economic and budget reasons) are "self-haters".


    Great Job mocktwinkie
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    Jan 14, 2012 1:39 AM GMT
    musclmed said
    mocktwinkie saidSo having established clearly that the majority of gay liberals on here would still tend to vote democrat (because of differing views on the "big picture") even if it meant postponing their gay rights like marriage equality we can officially end the bullshit from gay liberals on here about how gay conservatives who vote moderately republican (for economic and budget reasons) are "self-haters".


    Great Job mocktwinkie


    Mock would have a point if there were any moderate Republicans running, but most are completely unhinged right-wing lunatics. Further, while the Democratic Party hasn't fully embraced gay marriage it does support most other civil rights for gays and does not work actively against us as the Republicans do.
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Jan 14, 2012 2:24 AM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidSo having established clearly that the majority of gay liberals on here would still tend to vote democrat (because of differing views on the "big picture") even if it meant postponing their gay rights like marriage equality we can officially end the bullshit from gay liberals on here about how gay conservatives who vote moderately republican (for economic and budget reasons) are "self-haters".


    Sorry, mocktwinkie, but the responses on this thread do not suggest that the gay liberals on here are willing to postpone gay rights like gay marriage.

    You specifically asked us to choose between Gary Johnson and President Obama. The former publicly supports gay marriage, and the latter, while believing marriage is only between a man and a woman, is not likely to veto the repeal of DOMA.

    For either Gary Johnson or President Obama to repeal DOMA, it needs to pass Congress, and during the previous Congress the votes were not there to pass the measure. Neither Gary Johnson nor Obama would have been able to do anything about DOMA except stop defending it, which is what the Obama administration has done.

    So sorry, but your conclusion is invalid.

    Edited to add:

    According to a press release from the Department of Justice, it notes that President Obama does oppose DOMA and believes it should be repealed. So in the matter of gay marriage rights, it would be the same for Johnson as it is under Obama.

    http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2011/February/11-ag-222.html
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Jan 14, 2012 3:49 AM GMT
    I have never heard of Gary Johnson.
    You ignorant conservative Republicans are mistakenly obsessed with the ridiculous notion that gay marriage is the Democrats most important issue.
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    Jan 14, 2012 5:16 AM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    GQjock saidGiven the structure of our government ... Meaning that we have a two party system and the absolutely wild righting track the republicans in general have taken
    I cannot see voting for ANY republican for President because of what is at stake mainly having to do with SCOTUS
    Already we have ridiculous findings coming from the Roberts Court .......
    If we have a republican President that ridiculous quotient would get set into stone
    Along with that comes his relationnship with those republican congressmen and women already in the legislature ..... And we have Seen the way they work in the last two administrations

    So to answer your question ...... Lipstick on a pig ain't gonna cut it


    it's still a dang pig


    So you would vote AGAINST gay marriage equality. Got it. So much for the "I put gay rights first" bullshit.
    I didn't read one fucking word that said that. Apparently you see things that aren't there..
    But little dumb twinkies normally do.. like daddie's bank accounts.
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    Jan 17, 2012 9:19 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidSo having established clearly that the majority of gay liberals on here would still tend to vote democrat (because of differing views on the "big picture") even if it meant postponing their gay rights like marriage equality we can officially end the bullshit from gay liberals on here about how gay conservatives who vote moderately republican (for economic and budget reasons) are "self-haters".


    This has always been a petty and bullshit argument on here by liberals—it’s embarassing! Gay conservatives are not self-haters. I could see myself voting for Gary Johnson if he were willing to respectfully compromise and find bipartisan solutions. However, gay conservatives have to drop the bullshit about gay liberals being one-issue voters as well.
    Warning: Rant

    I'm liberal for MANY reasons and not just because of gay rights--some issue are even more important to me than gay rights(*). I am very liberal and passionate on issues/ideas such as:

    -Gay rights/marriage
    -Reproductive rights
    -Women's rights
    -Separation of church and state*
    -Secularism*
    -Teaching evolution, climate change, and sex education in public schools*
    -Immigration
    -Student financial aid
    -Heavily regulating Wall Street
    -Ending the War in Afghanistan
    -Gun Control
    -Ending the death penalty
    -Funding alternative energy
    -Ending the Bush Tax Cuts
    -Ending corn subsides (ending the low cost of highly processed foods)*
    -Stopping voter ID laws
    -Environmental protection & climate change
    -Healthcare that helps people instead of corporations and insurance companies
    -Giving the FDA "fangs" to better regulate the food and drug industries
    -Banning direct-to-consumer drug advertisements
    -Decreasing military spending
    -Increasing teacher pay and school year
    -Ending the "America is the greatest country" mindset
    -Increase spending on science and research*
    -Returning to rocket based technology in space
    -Fund Planned Parenthood
    -Legalizing drugs and treating addicts as patients instead of criminals
    -Create programs that actually help those able to get off of government assistance

    On economic issues I always try to find common ground; but I cannot support drastic and unfair cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security (as such programs have helped to create a strong middle class) while the Bush Tax Cuts and Corporate Welfare remain.

    Conservatives always bitch that government is too big--I say it's inefficient because of the corruption from money and donations from Wall Street and lobbyists. I have great faith in our republic, but not the way it is now. And no, the Tea Party has not made things better.
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    Jan 17, 2012 10:01 PM GMT
    conscienti1984 said
    mocktwinkie saidSo having established clearly that the majority of gay liberals on here would still tend to vote democrat (because of differing views on the "big picture") even if it meant postponing their gay rights like marriage equality we can officially end the bullshit from gay liberals on here about how gay conservatives who vote moderately republican (for economic and budget reasons) are "self-haters".


    This has always been a petty and bullshit argument on here by liberals—it’s embarassing! Gay conservatives are not self-haters. I could see myself voting for Gary Johnson if he were willing to respectfully compromise and find bipartisan solutions. However, gay conservatives have to drop the bullshit about gay liberals being one-issue voters as well.
    Warning: Rant

    I'm liberal for MANY reasons and not just because of gay rights--some issue are even more important to me than gay rights(*). I am very liberal and passionate on issues/ideas such as:

    -Gay rights/marriage
    -Reproductive rights
    -Women's rights
    -Separation of church and state*
    -Secularism*
    -Teaching evolution, climate change, and sex education in public schools*
    -Immigration
    -Student financial aid
    -Heavily regulating Wall Street
    -Ending the War in Afghanistan
    -Gun Control
    -Ending the death penalty
    -Funding alternative energy
    -Ending the Bush Tax Cuts
    -Ending corn subsides (ending the low cost of highly processed foods)*
    -Stopping voter ID laws
    -Environmental protection & climate change
    -Healthcare that helps people instead of corporations and insurance companies
    -Giving the FDA "fangs" to better regulate the food and drug industries
    -Banning direct-to-consumer drug advertisements
    -Decreasing military spending
    -Increasing teacher pay and school year
    -Ending the "America is the greatest country" mindset
    -Increase spending on science and research*
    -Returning to rocket based technology in space
    -Fund Planned Parenthood
    -Legalizing drugs and treating addicts as patients instead of criminals
    -Create programs that actually help those able to get off of government assistance

    On economic issues I always try to find common ground; but I cannot support drastic and unfair cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security (as such programs have helped to create a strong middle class) while the Bush Tax Cuts and Corporate Welfare remain.

    Conservatives always bitch that government is too big--I say it's inefficient because of the corruption from money and donations from Wall Street and lobbyists. I have great faith in our republic, but not the way it is now. And no, the Tea Party has not made things better.



    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    I agree with you on your list, but we're not going to get it out of this status quo two party system we got now. Look at all the promises Obama made toward progressive ideas and then negotiated those ideals away before he even had to, such as the Public Option in the Health care. Had that been left in the mix and pushed by Obama rather than going along with the Pharma/Med. Doctors and the Health insurance lobbies we wouldn't have had the problems with it that we are now over mandating everyone to take part in the messed up program that we ended up with.

    Look how spineless he was in his efforts to close Gruantanamo, caving to continue Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, Caving on holding the torture authors accountable, then signed the Indefinate Detention into law. He totally caved even against his own goals for Peace in the middle east, he gave the Israeli Lobby AIPAC everything they wanted for their constituency money and votes. He's still hated by a good shave of that group, so what good did caving to them do but embarass and Isolate our Nation right along with Israel. No we cannot depend on Dems or Repubs because they are both bought and paid for. The only correction for this crooked system would be to totally go with public financing for elections and an end to Citizens United that is selling off our Politicians to the highest bidder.

    THE SYSTEM IS BROKE and it will take major changes to correct. Personally I couldn't care less whether Gay Marriage comes along in the next few years or not, because we have much more important things to tackle.
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    Jan 17, 2012 10:48 PM GMT
    conscienti1984 said
    mocktwinkie saidSo having established clearly that the majority of gay liberals on here would still tend to vote democrat (because of differing views on the "big picture") even if it meant postponing their gay rights like marriage equality we can officially end the bullshit from gay liberals on here about how gay conservatives who vote moderately republican (for economic and budget reasons) are "self-haters".


    This has always been a petty and bullshit argument on here by liberals—it’s embarassing! Gay conservatives are not self-haters. I could see myself voting for Gary Johnson if he were willing to respectfully compromise and find bipartisan solutions. However, gay conservatives have to drop the bullshit about gay liberals being one-issue voters as well.
    Warning: Rant

    I'm liberal for MANY reasons and not just because of gay rights--some issue are even more important to me than gay rights(*). I am very liberal and passionate on issues/ideas such as:

    -Gay rights/marriage
    -Reproductive rights
    -Women's rights
    -Separation of church and state*
    -Secularism*
    -Teaching evolution, climate change, and sex education in public schools*
    -Immigration
    -Student financial aid
    -Heavily regulating Wall Street
    -Ending the War in Afghanistan
    -Gun Control
    -Ending the death penalty
    -Funding alternative energy
    -Ending the Bush Tax Cuts
    -Ending corn subsides (ending the low cost of highly processed foods)*
    -Stopping voter ID laws
    -Environmental protection & climate change
    -Healthcare that helps people instead of corporations and insurance companies
    -Giving the FDA "fangs" to better regulate the food and drug industries
    -Banning direct-to-consumer drug advertisements
    -Decreasing military spending
    -Increasing teacher pay and school year
    -Ending the "America is the greatest country" mindset
    -Increase spending on science and research*
    -Returning to rocket based technology in space
    -Fund Planned Parenthood
    -Legalizing drugs and treating addicts as patients instead of criminals
    -Create programs that actually help those able to get off of government assistance

    On economic issues I always try to find common ground; but I cannot support drastic and unfair cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security (as such programs have helped to create a strong middle class) while the Bush Tax Cuts and Corporate Welfare remain.

    Conservatives always bitch that government is too big--I say it's inefficient because of the corruption from money and donations from Wall Street and lobbyists. I have great faith in our republic, but not the way it is now. And no, the Tea Party has not made things better.


    Well, I agree with you on the last item and partially on the next to last, certainly on MJ. Ok, another one…… and I'm pretty ‘dead’ set against the death penalty (Project innocent) in most, but not quite all instances, KSM for instance.
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    Jan 18, 2012 12:13 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said

    Well, I agree with you on the last item and partially on the next to last, certainly on MJ. Ok, another one…… and I'm pretty ‘dead’ set against the death penalty (Project innocent) in most, but not quite all instances, KSM for instance.


    I hope KSM waits a LONG time for his virgins. Plus murder is a violation against nature; that's how horcruxes are formed.
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    Jan 18, 2012 12:22 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    conscienti1984 said
    mocktwinkie saidSo having established clearly that the majority of gay liberals on here would still tend to vote democrat (because of differing views on the "big picture") even if it meant postponing their gay rights like marriage equality we can officially end the bullshit from gay liberals on here about how gay conservatives who vote moderately republican (for economic and budget reasons) are "self-haters".


    This has always been a petty and bullshit argument on here by liberals—it’s embarassing! Gay conservatives are not self-haters. I could see myself voting for Gary Johnson if he were willing to respectfully compromise and find bipartisan solutions. However, gay conservatives have to drop the bullshit about gay liberals being one-issue voters as well.
    Warning: Rant

    I'm liberal for MANY reasons and not just because of gay rights--some issue are even more important to me than gay rights(*). I am very liberal and passionate on issues/ideas such as:

    -Gay rights/marriage
    -Reproductive rights
    -Women's rights
    -Separation of church and state*
    -Secularism*
    -Teaching evolution, climate change, and sex education in public schools*
    -Immigration
    -Student financial aid
    -Heavily regulating Wall Street
    -Ending the War in Afghanistan
    -Gun Control
    -Ending the death penalty
    -Funding alternative energy
    -Ending the Bush Tax Cuts
    -Ending corn subsides (ending the low cost of highly processed foods)*
    -Stopping voter ID laws
    -Environmental protection & climate change
    -Healthcare that helps people instead of corporations and insurance companies
    -Giving the FDA "fangs" to better regulate the food and drug industries
    -Banning direct-to-consumer drug advertisements
    -Decreasing military spending
    -Increasing teacher pay and school year
    -Ending the "America is the greatest country" mindset
    -Increase spending on science and research*
    -Returning to rocket based technology in space
    -Fund Planned Parenthood
    -Legalizing drugs and treating addicts as patients instead of criminals
    -Create programs that actually help those able to get off of government assistance

    On economic issues I always try to find common ground; but I cannot support drastic and unfair cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security (as such programs have helped to create a strong middle class) while the Bush Tax Cuts and Corporate Welfare remain.

    Conservatives always bitch that government is too big--I say it's inefficient because of the corruption from money and donations from Wall Street and lobbyists. I have great faith in our republic, but not the way it is now. And no, the Tea Party has not made things better.


    Well, I agree with you on the last item and partially on the next to last, certainly on MJ. Ok, another one…… and I'm pretty ‘dead’ set against the death penalty (Project innocent) in most, but not quite all instances, KSM for instance.
    You're a bad bad republican.. REPENT of your sinful ways.......

    Yours truly,
    The GOP
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    Jan 18, 2012 12:24 AM GMT
    conscienti1984 said
    freedomisntfree said

    Well, I agree with you on the last item and partially on the next to last, certainly on MJ. Ok, another one…… and I'm pretty ‘dead’ set against the death penalty (Project innocent) in most, but not quite all instances, KSM for instance.


    I hope KSM waits a LONG time for his virgins. Plus murder is a violation against nature; that's how horcruxes are formed.


    President assassin has a better idea. I don’t agree with him on much, but this I sure do.