A question and comment for Gays who vote Republican and post on here.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 18, 2012 3:05 PM GMT
    Why don't you take your enthusiasm and debating skills to the homphobes in the GOP?

    If you went to where Republicans-conservatives-Christians gathered and debated the homophobes, you might move the GOP into more gay friendly territory, and more gays would vote your way...if that is your objective.

    And if you don't, I wonder why not?








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    Jan 18, 2012 3:37 PM GMT
    White4DarkerFL saidWhy don't you take your enthusiasm and debating skills to the homphobes in the GOP?

    If you went to where Republicans-conservatives-Christians gathered and debated the homophobes, you might move the GOP into more gay friendly territory, and more gays would vote your way...if that is your objective.

    And if you don't, I wonder why not?



    As I have done for over 40 years and written about extensively right here on RJ. I have had but ONE incident in those 41 years.
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    Jan 18, 2012 4:01 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    White4DarkerFL saidWhy don't you take your enthusiasm and debating skills to the homphobes in the GOP?

    If you went to where Republicans-conservatives-Christians gathered and debated the homophobes, you might move the GOP into more gay friendly territory, and more gays would vote your way...if that is your objective.

    And if you don't, I wonder why not?



    As I have done for over 40 years and written about extensively right here on RJ. I have had but ONE incident in those 41 years.


    I believe the question is about Republican policies, not "incidents."


    le sigh.


    It was not an unreasonable question.
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    Jan 18, 2012 4:07 PM GMT
    Upper_Cdn said
    freedomisntfree said
    White4DarkerFL saidWhy don't you take your enthusiasm and debating skills to the homphobes in the GOP?

    If you went to where Republicans-conservatives-Christians gathered and debated the homophobes, you might move the GOP into more gay friendly territory, and more gays would vote your way...if that is your objective.

    And if you don't, I wonder why not?



    As I have done for over 40 years and written about extensively right here on RJ. I have had but ONE incident in those 41 years.


    I believe the question is about Republican policies, not "incidents."


    le sigh.


    It was not an unreasonable question.


    Is that like fighting bigotry and racism where you see it like with you and here? Are your racist views also shared by those of your party and your fellow ideologues? Are these unreasonable questions?

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2071481?forumpage=0
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2605

    Jan 18, 2012 4:11 PM GMT
    Good point, White4DarkerF. Instead of complaining about the Democrats` less than perfect record or consistency (but still better) on equal rights, etc., they should spend their time arguing with other conservatives about such rights and try to make their party/cause more progressive and less prejudiced. It would be a good use of their time and energy-and good for everyone else!
    Why don`t they? Because they know in their hearts it`s a near hopeless case?
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    Jan 18, 2012 4:20 PM GMT
    Upper_Cdn said
    freedomisntfree said
    White4DarkerFL saidWhy don't you take your enthusiasm and debating skills to the homphobes in the GOP?

    If you went to where Republicans-conservatives-Christians gathered and debated the homophobes, you might move the GOP into more gay friendly territory, and more gays would vote your way...if that is your objective.

    And if you don't, I wonder why not?



    As I have done for over 40 years and written about extensively right here on RJ. I have had but ONE incident in those 41 years.


    I believe the question is about Republican policies, not "incidents."


    le sigh.


    It was not an unreasonable question.


    "le sigh" my ass

    The premise of the question was "debated the homophobes"

    and I answered.
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    Jan 18, 2012 4:22 PM GMT
    Lincsbear saidGood point, White4DarkerF. Instead of complaining about the Democrats` less than perfect record or consistency (but still better) on equal rights, etc., they should spend their time arguing with other conservatives about such rights and try to make their party/cause more progressive and less prejudiced. It would be a good use of their time and energy-and good for everyone else!
    Why don`t they? Because they know in their hearts it`s a near hopeless case?


    Great 'tude dude.
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    Jan 18, 2012 4:32 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    White4DarkerFL saidWhy don't you take your enthusiasm and debating skills to the homphobes in the GOP?

    If you went to where Republicans-conservatives-Christians gathered and debated the homophobes, you might move the GOP into more gay friendly territory, and more gays would vote your way...if that is your objective.

    And if you don't, I wonder why not?



    As I have done for over 40 years and written about extensively right here on RJ. I have had but ONE incident in those 41 years.







    Yes FreedomGeezer, I remember well about two years ago how well you fought for your conservative cause "RIGHT HERE ON RJ" under the name of GEEZER, I seem to remember that you were so 'zealous' for your conservative cause that you were removed from the site.

    Anyone else remember that ? God bless your christian fundi cause GEEZER, you sure do the gay conservatives proud doncha !!!
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2605

    Jan 18, 2012 4:38 PM GMT
    Maybe it`s due to the fact that in political argument/combat you should never admit a weakness or failing(even if you know it is), especially one defined by the other side?
    It runs the risk of exposing other areas of belief/policy to the same failure. It`s a disaster in politics to develop the habit of admitting you`re constantly wrong.
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    Jan 18, 2012 4:41 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    Upper_Cdn said
    freedomisntfree said
    White4DarkerFL saidWhy don't you take your enthusiasm and debating skills to the homphobes in the GOP?

    If you went to where Republicans-conservatives-Christians gathered and debated the homophobes, you might move the GOP into more gay friendly territory, and more gays would vote your way...if that is your objective.

    And if you don't, I wonder why not?



    As I have done for over 40 years and written about extensively right here on RJ. I have had but ONE incident in those 41 years.


    I believe the question is about Republican policies, not "incidents."


    le sigh.


    It was not an unreasonable question.


    "le sigh" my ass

    The premise of the question was "debated the homophobes"

    and I answered.


    Yes, you have the chops to go out to GOP gatherings and bring the issue home.

    When Lt. Dan Choi comes out and argues he can be an effective Marine and gay, both the Marines and Asian communities are more likely to listen to him.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 18, 2012 4:56 PM GMT
    Lincsbear saidGood point, White4DarkerF. Instead of complaining about the Democrats` less than perfect record or consistency (but still better) on equal rights, etc., they should spend their time arguing with other conservatives about such rights and try to make their party/cause more progressive and less prejudiced. It would be a good use of their time and energy-and good for everyone else!
    Why don`t they? Because they know in their hearts it`s a near hopeless case?


    I'm talking more hand to hand combat.

    If there was ever an issue that Republicans should support, its Same-Sex Marriage. Married people are more likely to buy real estate and have kids...all demographics that are more likely to vote Republican.

    Personalizing any issue is very powerful. Show Republicans the evidence that gay parents are as good as, if not better than, heterosexual parents, and it would be hard to image not seeing at least a nudge toward acceptance.
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    Jan 18, 2012 5:13 PM GMT
    White4DarkerFL said
    Lincsbear saidGood point, White4DarkerF. Instead of complaining about the Democrats` less than perfect record or consistency (but still better) on equal rights, etc., they should spend their time arguing with other conservatives about such rights and try to make their party/cause more progressive and less prejudiced. It would be a good use of their time and energy-and good for everyone else!
    Why don`t they? Because they know in their hearts it`s a near hopeless case?


    I'm talking more hand to hand combat.

    If there was ever an issue that Republicans should support, its Same-Sex Marriage. Married people are more likely to buy real estate and have kids...all demographics that are more likely to vote Republican.

    Personalizing any issue is very powerful. Show Republicans the evidence that gay parents are as good as, if not better than, heterosexual parents, and it would be hard to image not seeing at least a nudge toward acceptance.

    Problem for conservatives on RJ is they are not defined by their gayness. They are defined by their greed and $$. So a debate with other GOPers quickly degrades to how i made my fortune and how much i paid for my latest status symbol.
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    Jan 18, 2012 5:20 PM GMT
    catfish5 said
    White4DarkerFL said
    Lincsbear saidGood point, White4DarkerF. Instead of complaining about the Democrats` less than perfect record or consistency (but still better) on equal rights, etc., they should spend their time arguing with other conservatives about such rights and try to make their party/cause more progressive and less prejudiced. It would be a good use of their time and energy-and good for everyone else!
    Why don`t they? Because they know in their hearts it`s a near hopeless case?


    I'm talking more hand to hand combat.

    If there was ever an issue that Republicans should support, its Same-Sex Marriage. Married people are more likely to buy real estate and have kids...all demographics that are more likely to vote Republican.

    Personalizing any issue is very powerful. Show Republicans the evidence that gay parents are as good as, if not better than, heterosexual parents, and it would be hard to image not seeing at least a nudge toward acceptance.

    Problem for conservatives on RJ is they are not defined by their gayness. They are defined by their greed and $$. So a debate with other GOPers quickly degrades to how i made my fortune and how much i paid for my latest status symbol.


    And....some of them are so uncomfortable with their sexual orientation, that they're closeted even to other RJ members. If they can't feel comfortable among other gays, I doubt they'll ever have the courage to argue for gay rights among heterosexual Republicans.
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    Jan 18, 2012 5:22 PM GMT
    Apparently, when you are viewed as a second class citizen, money becomes the great equalizer. So why focus on being a 2nd class citizen when emphasizing your wealth elevates you to 1st class status.
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    Jan 18, 2012 5:28 PM GMT
    I don't waste my time nor energy debating with Republicans, gay conservatives, fascists, Nazi's, or whatever name they are going by today.

    I devote my time to making a local difference in my community using a Servant-Leadership philosophy and style which inculcates a culture that is by definition devoted to making a difference in the lives of people.

    Let the evil does do their evil. I'll just keep creating strong people oriented communities and the debate will become moot.
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    Jan 18, 2012 5:37 PM GMT
    catfish5 saidApparently, when you are viewed as a second class citizen, money becomes the great equalizer. So why focus on being a 2nd class citizen when emphasizing your wealth elevates you to 1st class status.


    Second class is still second class. In fact, it stings even more when you're wealthy and accomplished, but get treated worse than a common criminal.

    Perhaps this is why every wealthy gay guy I know supports the Democrats.
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    Jan 18, 2012 5:58 PM GMT
    White4DarkerFL said
    freedomisntfree said
    Upper_Cdn said
    freedomisntfree said
    White4DarkerFL saidWhy don't you take your enthusiasm and debating skills to the homphobes in the GOP?

    If you went to where Republicans-conservatives-Christians gathered and debated the homophobes, you might move the GOP into more gay friendly territory, and more gays would vote your way...if that is your objective.

    And if you don't, I wonder why not?



    As I have done for over 40 years and written about extensively right here on RJ. I have had but ONE incident in those 41 years.


    I believe the question is about Republican policies, not "incidents."


    le sigh.


    It was not an unreasonable question.


    "le sigh" my ass

    The premise of the question was "debated the homophobes"

    and I answered.


    Yes, you have the chops to go out to GOP gatherings and bring the issue home.

    When Lt. Dan Choi comes out and argues he can be an effective Marine and gay, both the Marines and Asian communities are more likely to listen to him.



    That was exactly my point! I had a fantastic incident/opportunity with the Santa Monica Bay Republican Club in 96 during the Dole campaign, which ultimately ended up with me sitting next to Ralph Reed of the Christian coalition for a dinner at the RMN library. Folks dressed for the occasion and I have an extensive collection of past Repub campaign buttons and my suit jacket was covered with them. The only slight difference is the one I had on my tie was the rainbow triangle. Back in those days, it really hadn’t caught on much and very few knew what it was. So most folks were mesmerized with my 100+ yr old collection of buttons and it would almost always prompt the viewer to ask, innocently I might add, what the triangle was for. I would always with a smile saying … that means I’m a fag and watched their face while they tried to collect themselves. It was great fun.

    Seriously though, I hope I made some difference. We agree on almost everything else – in fact I’m usually the most right wing person in the room on almost all other issues. After giving my name my tag line is “I’m a right wing homo”. Best way to start is always with good laugh. And it upends their equilibrium and its blast to watch them figure out how to react.

    They listen because I have impeccable right wing credentials similar to your analogy in re: Lt Dan. I can’t change the world, but I get ‘em one by one. You don’t get them, btw, by hurling unending insults and ad hominem attacks from the other side of the aisle as seems to be the MO here with most folks. It doesn’t work.

    We "Repubs" agree on almost everything else – in fact I’m usually the most right wing person in the room on almost all other issues. After giving my name my tag line is “I’m a right wing homo or queer”. I'm never PC, but hurl the same slight at me that maybe they're thinking and won't verbalize. Takes the fire right out of it. I often introduce myself that way. Best way to start is always with good laugh and I’m always good for a cheap laugh at my expense. In fact it’s a sign of endearment. And it upends their equilibrium and its blast to watch them figure out how to react. Sorry to keep talking about the ‘96’ incident, but that’s all there is in 41 years of queerness.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 18, 2012 6:00 PM GMT
    GAMRican saidI don't waste my time nor energy debating with Republicans, gay conservatives, fascists, Nazi's, or whatever name they are going by today.

    I devote my time to making a local difference in my community using a Servant-Leadership philosophy and style which inculcates a culture that is by definition devoted to making a difference in the lives of people.

    Let the evil does do their evil. I'll just keep creating strong people oriented communities and the debate will become moot.


    And the underlined is exactly how NOT to make progress with the other side. Thanks for providing a perfect example you butt fucked air head.
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    Jan 18, 2012 6:16 PM GMT
    Lincsbear saidMaybe it`s due to the fact that in political argument/combat you should never admit a weakness or failing(even if you know it is), especially one defined by the other side?
    It runs the risk of exposing other areas of belief/policy to the same failure. It`s a disaster in politics to develop the habit of admitting you`re constantly wrong.


    We're a 180 on that one.

    "admitting you`re constantly wrong"

    I've never said constantly. Once in a while though enhances credibility and encourages the other side to consider that maybe they’ve been wrong once in a while too.
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    Jan 18, 2012 6:23 PM GMT
    Many of them suffer from internalized homophobia themselves; why would they disagree with the homophobia of the right wing?

    Partisan Democrats are not off the hook either. All non-heteros need to be more forceful in pushing their respective parties on gay rights. Let's not forget: the Democrats didn't come around on civil rights for blacks in the 1960s out of the goodness of their hearts: they were pushed and prodded and threatened into action by black people and our allies.

    The elephants and the donkeys must have their feet held to the fire on freedom and equality.
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    Jan 18, 2012 6:31 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Upper_Cdn said
    freedomisntfree said
    White4DarkerFL saidWhy don't you take your enthusiasm and debating skills to the homphobes in the GOP?

    If you went to where Republicans-conservatives-Christians gathered and debated the homophobes, you might move the GOP into more gay friendly territory, and more gays would vote your way...if that is your objective.

    And if you don't, I wonder why not?



    As I have done for over 40 years and written about extensively right here on RJ. I have had but ONE incident in those 41 years.


    I believe the question is about Republican policies, not "incidents."


    le sigh.


    It was not an unreasonable question.


    Is that like fighting bigotry and racism where you see it like with you and here? Are your racist views also shared by those of your party and your fellow ideologues? Are these unreasonable questions?

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2071481?forumpage=0


    That's a pathetic dodge. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 18, 2012 6:37 PM GMT
    White4DarkerFL said
    Lincsbear saidGood point, White4DarkerF. Instead of complaining about the Democrats` less than perfect record or consistency (but still better) on equal rights, etc., they should spend their time arguing with other conservatives about such rights and try to make their party/cause more progressive and less prejudiced. It would be a good use of their time and energy-and good for everyone else!
    Why don`t they? Because they know in their hearts it`s a near hopeless case?


    I'm talking more hand to hand combat.

    If there was ever an issue that Republicans should support, its Same-Sex Marriage. Married people are more likely to buy real estate and have kids...all demographics that are more likely to vote Republican.

    Personalizing any issue is very powerful. Show Republicans the evidence that gay parents are as good as, if not better than, heterosexual parents, and it would be hard to image not seeing at least a nudge toward acceptance.


    I find myself again agreeing with you. I took my BF as much as I could to conservative events. I’ve posted pics here many times. He burned out on it a bit because his boss was a major Repub developer and was deeply involved. We’ll call them 15%ers from now on.

    No one had to ask about us because we were obviously a couple from wearing identical Bush/Cheney shirts in 2000 and 2004 or NRA, etc., to just the way we were around each other. He was/is a great public speaker and motivator and I maybe close and we we’re both funny. I’m a much bigger believer in self deprecating humor than he, but the combo of both of us put most everyone at ease and we entertained with our antics. And I can guarantee you that we brought far more folks to reason than lobbing ad hominem attacks at us such as fascists and Nazis.
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    Jan 18, 2012 6:39 PM GMT
    TrojanAthlete saidMany of them suffer from internalized homophobia themselves; why would they disagree with the homophobia of the right wing?

    Partisan Democrats are not off the hook either. All non-heteros need to be more forceful in pushing their respective parties on gay rights. Let's not forget: the Democrats didn't come around on civil rights for blacks in the 1960s out of the goodness of their hearts: they were pushed and prodded and threatened into action by black people and our allies.

    The elephants and the donkeys must have their feet held to the fire on freedom and equality.


    "they were pushed and prodded and threatened into action by black people and our allies"

    And just who might that have been?
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    Jan 18, 2012 7:03 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    White4DarkerFL said
    freedomisntfree said
    Upper_Cdn said
    freedomisntfree said
    White4DarkerFL saidWhy don't you take your enthusiasm and debating skills to the homphobes in the GOP?

    If you went to where Republicans-conservatives-Christians gathered and debated the homophobes, you might move the GOP into more gay friendly territory, and more gays would vote your way...if that is your objective.

    And if you don't, I wonder why not?



    As I have done for over 40 years and written about extensively right here on RJ. I have had but ONE incident in those 41 years.


    I believe the question is about Republican policies, not "incidents."


    le sigh.


    It was not an unreasonable question.


    "le sigh" my ass

    The premise of the question was "debated the homophobes"

    and I answered.


    Yes, you have the chops to go out to GOP gatherings and bring the issue home.

    When Lt. Dan Choi comes out and argues he can be an effective Marine and gay, both the Marines and Asian communities are more likely to listen to him.



    That was exactly my point! I had a fantastic incident/opportunity with the Santa Monica Bay Republican Club in 96 during the Dole campaign, which ultimately ended up with me sitting next to Ralph Reed of the Christian coalition for a dinner at the RMN library. Folks dressed for the occasion and I have an extensive collection of past Repub campaign buttons and my suit jacket was covered with them. The only slight difference is the one I had on my tie was the rainbow triangle. Back in those days, it really hadn’t caught on much and very few knew what it was. So most folks were mesmerized with my 100+ yr old collection of buttons and it would almost always prompt the viewer to ask, innocently I might add, what the triangle was for. I would always with a smile saying … that means I’m a fag and watched their face while they tried to collect themselves. It was great fun.

    Seriously though, I hope I made some difference. We agree on almost everything else – in fact I’m usually the most right wing person in the room on almost all other issues. After giving my name my tag line is “I’m a right wing homo”. Best way to start is always with good laugh. And it upends their equilibrium and its blast to watch them figure out how to react.

    They listen because I have impeccable right wing credentials similar to your analogy in re: Lt Dan. I can’t change the world, but I get ‘em one by one. You don’t get them, btw, by hurling unending insults and ad hominem attacks from the other side of the aisle as seems to be the MO here with most folks. It doesn’t work.

    We "Repubs" agree on almost everything else – in fact I’m usually the most right wing person in the room on almost all other issues. After giving my name my tag line is “I’m a right wing homo or queer”. I'm never PC, but hurl the same slight at me that maybe they're thinking and won't verbalize. Takes the fire right out of it. I often introduce myself that way. Best way to start is always with good laugh and I’m always good for a cheap laugh at my expense. In fact it’s a sign of endearment. And it upends their equilibrium and its blast to watch them figure out how to react. Sorry to keep talking about the ‘96’ incident, but that’s all there is in 41 years of queerness.



    No apologies necessary at all....that's a great story and shows others exactly how to handle things. And not just Gay Republicans, but all the other places where gays tend to be closeted.

    You should really write a book about your experience. You provide a wonderful example for others too timid to take the steps. You're not telling people what to believe or anything. But by your being there in the flesh and blood as a real person, you're forcing people into crisis to question their beliefs. No law or ivory tower intellectual could ever do this.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 18, 2012 7:08 PM GMT
    TrojanAthlete saidMany of them suffer from internalized homophobia themselves; why would they disagree with the homophobia of the right wing?

    Partisan Democrats are not off the hook either. All non-heteros need to be more forceful in pushing their respective parties on gay rights. Let's not forget: the Democrats didn't come around on civil rights for blacks in the 1960s out of the goodness of their hearts: they were pushed and prodded and threatened into action by black people and our allies.

    The elephants and the donkeys must have their feet held to the fire on freedom and equality.


    I think a lot of gays suffer from internalized homophobia, regardless of politics.

    I totally agree that gays need to push both parties toward acceptance. Is there a logical reason why a gay guy can't be President some day?