How to argue about politics

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 19, 2012 3:41 PM GMT
    I don't know if anyone here will care, but there's a nice article in the NY Times today about discussing politics. Quite Interesting:

    http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/18/how-to-argue-about-politics/?ref=opinion
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 19, 2012 4:51 PM GMT
    "Why might a sensible person be sympathetic to these sorts of views? It helps to see them as based on a general picture of the strengths of our nation and the dangers to its flourishing. The strengths are our free enterprise system and our religious/ethical heritage of hard work, individual responsibility and adherence to traditional moral standards. "



    [emphasis added]

    It is on the matter of adherence that the rift begins.

    The left condemns the right for failing to adhere to the values it espouses;
    the right condemns the left for not having values at all.

    The left says it do so, we've told you what they are but you insist on reducing it to ridiculous mantras none of us ever say - which is another example of hypocrisy.

    Neither side can see the other as honourable or honest so no trust is possible.


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    Jan 19, 2012 5:11 PM GMT
    Here's the answer: Do the GOOGLE, search for facts before posting in any discussion then use facts, not Ideology to base any discussion on.

    The far right usually has at the base of their beliefs a list of superstitions from their Christian Fundi Bible stories. Then they craft their entire political stand on who and whatever stance they perceive will forward their christian fundi beliefs.(for instance the righties adherence to FOX biased NEWS)

    in their minds their ideology is based on God being the author of their truth, their God is always right so no need for 'compromise' because they have God on their Ideological side. Hense the impossibility to reason with these people, the facts be damned.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Jan 19, 2012 5:19 PM GMT
    realifedad said Here's the answer: Do the GOOGLE, search for facts before posting in any discussion then use facts, not Ideology to base any discussion on.

    The far right usually has at the base of their beliefs a list of superstitions from their Christian Fundi Bible stories. Then they craft their entire political stand on who and whatever stance they perceive will forward their christian fundi beliefs.(for instance the righties adherence to FOX biased NEWS)

    in their minds their ideology is based on God being the author of their truth, their God is always right so no need for 'compromise' because they have God on their Ideological side. Hense the impossibility to reason with these people, the facts be damned.


    Moreover, "the Lord has need of it" seems to excuse a pretty fair amount of lying.
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    Jan 19, 2012 6:08 PM GMT
    Thanks for posting that.

    As a non-religious conservative I often find myself at odds with my more faithful friends. I'm not convinced that delving into certain verses from the Bible are representative of a coherent philosophical rebuttal to the original ideas of conservatism - quotes out of context can be manipulated to any end. I think a more accurate philosophical approach would be to look at the goals of the Bible as a whole, and of Christianity in general, what their role is to a religious conservative, and how they apply that to their philosophy of government.

    My personal opinion is that as a philosophy for personal guidance, the Bible is perfectly acceptable to a politician as a means of formulating their approach to EXECUTING their role in government, ie, am i ethical? am i faithful? am i charitable, forgiving and humble? The mistake many religious Republicans (NOT synonymous with conservative) make, in my opinion, is that they view government in exactly the same way their political opponents on the left do - as nothing more than a blunt instrument with which to force others to live as they do, in this case, in accordance with their particular interpretation of the Bible.
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    Jan 19, 2012 6:49 PM GMT
    grovetown1 saidThanks for posting that.

    As a non-religious conservative I often find myself at odds with my more faithful friends. I'm not convinced that delving into certain versus from the Bible are representative of a coherent philosophical rebuttal to the original ideas of conservatism - quotes out of context can be manipulated to any end. I think a more accurate philosophical approach would be to look at the goals of the Bible as a whole, and of Christianity in general, what their role is to a religious conservative, and how they apply that to their philosophy of government.

    My personal opinion is that as a philosophy for personal guidance, the Bible is perfectly acceptable to a politician as a means of formulating their approach to EXECUTING their role in government, ie, am i ethical? am i faithful? am i charitable, forgiving and humble? The mistake many religious Republicans (NOT synonymous with conservative) make, in my opinion, is that they view government in exactly the same way their political opponents on the left do - as nothing more than a blunt instrument with which to force others to live as they do, in this case, in accordance with their particular interpretation of the Bible.


    Good post. One correction though - it's not 'most' republicans. True, they are there and vocal, but it does NOT represent all of us.
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    Jan 19, 2012 8:24 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    grovetown1 saidThanks for posting that.

    As a non-religious conservative I often find myself at odds with my more faithful friends. I'm not convinced that delving into certain versus from the Bible are representative of a coherent philosophical rebuttal to the original ideas of conservatism - quotes out of context can be manipulated to any end. I think a more accurate philosophical approach would be to look at the goals of the Bible as a whole, and of Christianity in general, what their role is to a religious conservative, and how they apply that to their philosophy of government.

    My personal opinion is that as a philosophy for personal guidance, the Bible is perfectly acceptable to a politician as a means of formulating their approach to EXECUTING their role in government, ie, am i ethical? am i faithful? am i charitable, forgiving and humble? The mistake many religious Republicans (NOT synonymous with conservative) make, in my opinion, is that they view government in exactly the same way their political opponents on the left do - as nothing more than a blunt instrument with which to force others to live as they do, in this case, in accordance with their particular interpretation of the Bible.


    Good post. One correction though - it's not 'most' republicans. True, they are there and vocal, but it does NOT represent all of us.


    I didnt refer anywhere to "most" Republicans. I said "many" Republicans.
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    Jan 19, 2012 8:31 PM GMT
    grovetown1 saidThanks for posting that.

    As a non-religious conservative I often find myself at odds with my more faithful friends. I'm not convinced that delving into certain versus from the Bible are representative of a coherent philosophical rebuttal to the original ideas of conservatism - quotes out of context can be manipulated to any end. I think a more accurate philosophical approach would be to look at the goals of the Bible as a whole, and of Christianity in general, what their role is to a religious conservative, and how they apply that to their philosophy of government.

    My personal opinion is that as a philosophy for personal guidance, the Bible is perfectly acceptable to a politician as a means of formulating their approach to EXECUTING their role in government, ie, am i ethical? am i faithful? am i charitable, forgiving and humble? The mistake many religious Republicans (NOT synonymous with conservative) make, in my opinion, is that they view government in exactly the same way their political opponents on the left do - as nothing more than a blunt instrument with which to force others to live as they do, in this case, in accordance with their particular interpretation of the Bible.





    I say a definate "AMEN" to what your wrote:


    The best biblical teaching which pretty much covers all good living practices is. "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", that means we don't kill, we don't steal, we don't cheat on our 'partners', we don't covet what your neighbor has to the point of stealing it or cheating them out of it. it means a high standard of truth telling rather than lieing to gain what a person or group wants.

    The last one about lieing is a strict ban on using contrived bible texts to support slavery, to claim god hates gays, to make biblical claims of ownership of another peoples land and then follow that belief with 'Carte Blanche' backing of a 'bible chosen people's' war of choice against another nation. I could go on, but the reader gets the point I am sure.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jan 19, 2012 8:51 PM GMT
    In discussing politics there needs to one true virtue and that is there is adherence to the truth

    I am a man who has lived and make my living in Science where facts are the only thing that concerns me

    What I will not abide is when people attempt to bend and bastardize facts

    Sticking with pure Science .... Those FACTS are that global climate change is real and man made
    And another is evolution ....... You politicize those truths you need to be called on it ....all the time

    And that goes for other political truths as well
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    Jan 19, 2012 10:19 PM GMT
    GQjock saidIn discussing politics there needs to one true virtue and that is there is adherence to the truth

    I am a man who has lived and make my living in Science where facts are the only thing that concerns me

    What I will not abide is when people attempt to bend and bastardize facts

    Sticking with pure Science .... Those FACTS are that global climate change is real and man made
    And another is evolution ....... You politicize those truths you need to be called on it ....all the time

    And that goes for other political truths as well


    I so agree, that if we were married I would give you the bigger piece of pie everytime.