Jurors learn ID of 2nd man in Rutgers webcam case (Tyler Clementi killed himself after roomate videoed gay sex). Added a fictional account of Tyler seeking help on RJ.

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    Jan 20, 2012 11:45 PM GMT
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-01-20/rutgers-suicide-webcam-trial/52699740/1

    NEW BRUNSWICK, N.J. (AP) – Potential jurors in the trial of a former Rutgers student accused of using a webcam to spy on a roommate's intimate encounter will learn the name of the other man in the video, a detail that has been kept secret since the roommate's September 2010 suicide. ...
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    Jan 21, 2012 2:30 AM GMT
    Several weeks prior to the Tyler Clementi suicide making the news, I was involved with a bullying incident on RJ. A few other guys were with me, but the others did not consider it a bullying incident. They decided the guy involved was a fake and considered their role to be giving the fake his due. With that incident in mind, I wrote a short fictional story at the time placing Tyler on RJ prior to him committing suicide by jumping off the George Washington Bridge. During the past year, having seen the reaction to some seeking help, I decided to write the following. Tyler's involvement with Real Jock is completely fictional as far as I know.

    After Tyler found the video had gone out on the internet, he felt humiliated. He was not out, lacked self-confidence, had few friends, and no one he could confide in or get advice from. He had lurked a bit on RJ but the thought of creating a profile was completely intimidating, especially after seeing the profiles of handsome guys in fantastic shape. Anyway, he felt desperate, had nowhere to turn, so he gathered up as much courage as he could muster and created an account and an extremely basic profile. He created a thread and mentioned what had happened to him, but the message was not completely coherent. He didn't ask for specific advice, but mostly seemed to be asking for some kind of support. He never mentioned suicide, probably because he had not considered it at the time.

    The responses to his thread came quickly. His message was considered whiny and needy. Generally the responses fell into two categories. Some said he was obviously a fake, having just joined today, no pics, an empty profile, and a post count all of 1. Some of the guys could not bear the thought of helping someone if it turned out to be a joke. The other responses told him to man up and kick his roommate's ass. A few other replies ridiculed him for not being out, and suggested he deserved the humiliation he felt. One guy even suggested he kill himself, as suggestion he previously actually made to another new RJ guy who promptly left the site. (That was not fiction, by the way.)

    Tyler did not come back to the thread. He felt devastated. That further indicated to the others that he was either a fake or a wus, and the comments continued accordingly until the guys got tired of it and moved on to something else. The thread dropped out of sight.

    About a week later, a thread was posted about this Rutgers student who jumped of the George Washington Bridge. The guys on RJ knew he was the one because his thread had mentioned the incident. Af first, no one wanted to say anything. They definitely did not want to resurrect the thread, so eventually one of them started a new thread to discuss the situation.

    They said they were sorry, but emphasized he killed himself. They did not push him off the bridge. All agreed.
    They said he never mentioned he might kill himself. Otherwise they might have taken him more seriously. All agreed.
    They said a new, empty profile was grounds to be skeptical, but they realized that even if he had not been so new, if he were not considered cool, he would have received the same treatment.
    They said the internet is not real, and that he should have sought professional help. Guys on the internet can't be responsible. All agreed.

    But some felt remorse. Maybe if only one or a few had befriended him, either in the thread or via messages, they might have been able to establish enough of a rapport to encourage him to get professional help. But stepping away from the conformity of the group would have been too big a leap to make.
  • waccamatt

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    Jan 21, 2012 4:30 AM GMT
    You make some very good points.
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    Jan 21, 2012 4:42 AM GMT
    It's all a fiction. The whole story has been forced into the white Liberal narrative.
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    Jan 21, 2012 4:46 AM GMT
    Great points i agree.
    It does get difficult when you find yourself in these types of forums to take anything seriously. Maybe instead of us all judging a blank profile too quickly we could look it like this person definately does have physcological issues and probably does need some help.
    We are all quick to judge harshly because after all there are so many fuckwits around trolling. I for one will at least give a blank profile some credance initially from now on.
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    Jan 21, 2012 5:30 AM GMT
    waccamatt, dontellmeyorh... - thanks for your comments

    colboy - notice you mentioned empathy in your profile. Obviously a main theme here.

    JackNWNJ - how is this a "white Liberal narrative"? Are you suggesting empathy is not consistent with conservatism?
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    Jan 21, 2012 3:20 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidwaccamatt, dontellmeyorh... - thanks for your comments

    colboy - notice you mentioned empathy in your profile. Obviously a main theme here.

    JackNWNJ - how is this a "white Liberal narrative"? Are you suggesting empathy is not consistent with conservatism?



    Socal, meet Jack, the clay on the foot of conservatism.

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    Jan 21, 2012 3:22 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidSeveral weeks prior to the Tyler Clementi suicide making the news, I was involved with a bullying incident on RJ. A few other guys were with me, but the others did not consider it a bullying incident. They decided the guy involved was a fake and considered their role to be giving the fake his due. With that incident in mind, I wrote a short fictional story at the time placing Tyler on RJ prior to him committing suicide by jumping off the George Washington Bridge. During the past year, having seen the reaction to some seeking help, I decided to write the following. Tyler's involvement with Real Jock is completely fictional as far as I know.

    After Tyler found the video had gone out on the internet, he felt humiliated. He was not out, lacked self-confidence, had few friends, and no one he could confide in or get advice from. He had lurked a bit on RJ but the thought of creating a profile was completely intimidating, especially after seeing the profile of handsome guys in fantastic shape. Anyway, he felt desperate, had nowhere to turn, so he gathered up as much courage as he could muster and created an account and an extremely basic profile. He created a thread and mentioned what had happened to him, but the message was not completely coherent. He didn't ask for specific advice, but mostly seemed to be asking for some kind of support. He never mentioned suicide, probably because he had not considered it at the time.

    The responses to his thread came quickly. His message was considered whiny and needy. Generally the responses fell into two categories. Some said he was obviously a fake, having just joined today, no pics, an empty profile, and a post count all of 1. Some of the guys could not bear the thought of helping someone if it turned out to be a joke. The other responses told him to man up and kick his roommate's ass. A few other replies ridiculed him for not being out, and suggested he deserved the humiliation he felt. One guy even suggested he kill himself, as suggestion he previously actually made to another new RJ guy who promptly left the site. (That was not fiction, by the way.)

    Tyler did not come back to the thread. He felt devastated. That further indicated to the others that he was either a fake or a wus, and the comments continued accordingly until the guys got tired of it and moved on to something else. The thread dropped out of sight.

    About a week later, a thread was posted about this Rutgers student who jumped of the George Washington Bridge. The guys on RJ knew he was the one because his thread had mentioned the incident. Af first, no one wanted to say anything. They definitely did not want to resurrect the thread, so eventually one of them started a new thread to discuss the situation.

    They said they were sorry, but emphasized he killed himself. They did not push him off the bridge. All agreed.
    They said he never mentioned he might kill himself. Otherwise they might have taken him more seriously. All agreed.
    They said a new, empty profile was grounds to be skeptical, but they realized that even if he had not been so new, if he were not considered cool, he would have received the same treatment.
    They said the internet is not real, and that he should have sought professional help. Guys on the internet can't be responsible. All agreed.

    But some felt remorse. Maybe if only one or a few had befriended him, either in the thread or via messages, they might have been able to establish enough of a rapport to encourage him to get professional help. But stepping away from the conformity of the group would have been too big a leap to make.


    Now THAT'S putting your talents to worthy use!

    Thank you for this, it is exemplary.
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    Jan 21, 2012 3:27 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    socalfitness saidwaccamatt, dontellmeyorh... - thanks for your comments

    colboy - notice you mentioned empathy in your profile. Obviously a main theme here.

    JackNWNJ - how is this a "white Liberal narrative"? Are you suggesting empathy is not consistent with conservatism?

    Socal, meet Jack, the clay on the foot of conservatism.

    LMAO!!!

    I think most here know that "Jack" just posts things to be provocative. Except he's not, merely offensive.

    Though BTW, empathy is indeed not consistent with US conservatism. In fact, the opposite is true. Greed, selfishness & cruelty are the guiding tenets of that political philosophy.
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    Jan 21, 2012 3:31 PM GMT

    Hmmmm....I disagree Art; we have friends and relatives in the US that are conservatives and they are among the warmest and kindest of people. They are fiscally conservative in many varying degrees and eschew the religious nutbars that have invaded their party, as well as the callous me-me-me folks, which you will also find among liberals albeit to a lesser degree.
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    Jan 21, 2012 3:33 PM GMT
    dontellmeyorhot saidGreat points i agree.
    It does get difficult when you find yourself in these types of forums to take anything seriously. Maybe instead of us all judging a blank profile too quickly we could look it like this person definitely does have psychological issues and probably does need some help.
    We are all quick to judge harshly because after all there are so many fuckwits around trolling. I for one will at least give a blank profile some credence initially from now on.
    Agreed! Unfortunately too many take this too seriously.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Jan 21, 2012 3:37 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said

    I think most here know that "Jack" just posts things to be provocative. Except he's not, merely offensive.

    Though BTW, empathy is indeed not consistent with US conservatism. In fact, the opposite is true. Greed, selfishness & cruelty are the guiding tenets of that political philosophy.



    I whole-heartedly disagree. Regarding Jack, I haven't read all of his posts, but from what I remember he merely states an opinion -- one that, of course, doesn't always sit well with the "My Way Or The Highway" liberal minds, so I guess that is what makes them "provocative" in your mind. As for "Greed, selfishness & cruelty" being the "guiding tenets" of Conservatism, that is simply not true. I'm not surprised that is YOUR opinion, but it's not one lodged in any basis of reality.
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    Jan 21, 2012 3:40 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Art_Deco said

    I think most here know that "Jack" just posts things to be provocative. Except he's not, merely offensive.

    Though BTW, empathy is indeed not consistent with US conservatism. In fact, the opposite is true. Greed, selfishness & cruelty are the guiding tenets of that political philosophy.



    Regarding Jack, I haven't read all of his posts, but from what I remember he merely states an opinion -- I'm not surprised that is YOUR opinion, but it's not one lodged in any basis of reality.
    You should!icon_wink.gif
    I'm not surprised that is YOUR opinion, but it's not one lodged in any basis of reality.icon_wink.gif
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    Jan 21, 2012 3:41 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Art_Deco said

    I think most here know that "Jack" just posts things to be provocative. Except he's not, merely offensive.

    Though BTW, empathy is indeed not consistent with US conservatism. In fact, the opposite is true. Greed, selfishness & cruelty are the guiding tenets of that political philosophy.



    I whole-heartedly disagree. Regarding Jack, I haven't read all of his posts, but from what I remember he merely states an opinion -- one that, of course, doesn't always sit well with the "My Way Or The Highway" liberal minds, so I guess that is what makes them "provocative" in your mind. As for "Greed, selfishness & cruelty" being the "guiding tenets" of Conservatism, that is simply not true. I'm not surprised that is YOUR opinion, but it's not one lodged in any basis of reality.



    I love how you excuse Jack and lambaste Art for doing the same thing. Double standard, eh? Jack btw is far far ruder than Art.

    You're looking rather ridiculous with this, Curious.

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    Jan 21, 2012 3:55 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Art_Deco said

    Though BTW, empathy is indeed not consistent with US conservatism. In fact, the opposite is true. Greed, selfishness & cruelty are the guiding tenets of that political philosophy.


    Yet another idiotic statement from you... it ranks right up there with your "All Muslims should be removed from the USA" intolerant nonsense.



    ...and this is an idiotic statement from you SB, considering this:

    Jack said, "It's all a fiction. The whole story has been forced into the white Liberal narrative."

    He just insulted Socal. Well?!!?!?


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    Jan 21, 2012 3:55 PM GMT
    Thanks for most of the comments, guys. In the spirit of trying to raise some points that I think can help make RJ a better place, I created this thread. I think most will read the OP first, but in the spirit of encouraging any participation on the intended topic, I created this thread in the political area for the political discussion that has emerged.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2128252
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Jan 21, 2012 3:56 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    I love how you excuse Jack and lambaste Art for doing the same thing. Double standard, eh? Jack btw is far far ruder than Art.

    You're looking rather ridiculous with this, Curious.




    I said I hadn't read ALL of Jack's posts. As for Jack's post in this particular thread. I didn't really even understand exactly what the point he was trying to make. Art, on the other hand, made yet another generalization, as he so often likes to do, about U.S. conservatives that simply was not fair or true.
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    Jan 21, 2012 4:01 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    meninlove said


    ...and this is an idiotic statement from you SB, considering this:

    Jack said, "It's all a fiction. The whole story has been forced into the white Liberal narrative."

    He just insulted Socal. Well?!!?!?





    You insulted Jack, but I didn't comment.

    I don't find Jack's comment an "insult" at all, rather it is an opinion that is apparently at odds with socal's.




    Of course you wouldn't. The intent was to expose you, which worked wonderfully.
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    Jan 21, 2012 4:04 PM GMT

    CuriousJockAZ said, " As for Jack's post in this particular thread. I didn't really even understand exactly what the point he was trying to make."

    Then you should try.
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    Jan 21, 2012 4:05 PM GMT
    Now to get back on track. I think Socal's story an excellent commentary on online social networking sites.
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    Jan 21, 2012 4:08 PM GMT
    You have a pretty valid point. Sometimes on the other end of a blank profile, is just some creeper trying to get his rocks off. Meanwhile, on the other hand, on some profiles, the guy on the other end is just trying to find a balance between his identity and sexuality. I've talked to people who feel the need to upload no photo because they're too afraid of being discovered- especially if they're in a small college town in the South, which I suppose I can't blame them for.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Jan 21, 2012 4:08 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    CuriousJockAZ said, " As for Jack's post in this particular thread. I didn't really even understand exactly what the point he was trying to make."

    Then you should try.



    Why? His point was rather vague in my opinion, and regardless it was HIS opinion. One in which I really honestly had no opinion on myself either way. Art's on the other hand I found just another broad generalization like he so often likes to make regarding conservatives that simply was not true. I don't think my post disagreeing with him was all that different than YOUR post disagreeing with him, other than my pointing out that his gross generalizations are common place when it comes to him posting about conservatives.
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    Jan 21, 2012 4:14 PM GMT
    Bullwinklemoos saidYou have a pretty valid point. Sometimes on the other end of a blank profile, is just some creeper trying to get his rocks off. Meanwhile, on the other hand, on some profiles, the guy on the other end is just trying to find a balance between his identity and sexuality. I've talked to people who feel the need to upload no photo because they're too afraid of being discovered- especially if they're in a small college town in the South, which I suppose I can't blame them for.

    Agree completely and thanks for the comment. I think people are so worried about being considered naive in believing a message compared to other, "more sophisticated" people, that the negative response is encouraged. They feel it's safer for the ego to say something is false, and maybe later relent, then take a message at face value, then later be shown to have been duped.
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    Jan 21, 2012 4:18 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    meninlove said
    CuriousJockAZ said, " As for Jack's post in this particular thread. I didn't really even understand exactly what the point he was trying to make."

    Then you should try.



    Why? His point was rather vague in my opinion, and regardless it was HIS opinion. One in which I really honestly had no opinion on myself either way. Art's on the other hand I found just another broad generalization like he so often likes to make regarding conservatives that simply was not true. I don't think my post disagreeing with him was all that different than YOUR post disagreeing with him, other than my pointing out that his gross generalizations are common place when it comes to him posting about conservatives.



    ...mmmhmmm, and Art's post was merely his opinion, as well. You have a blind spot big enough to park your truck in.
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    Jan 21, 2012 4:18 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Bullwinklemoos saidYou have a pretty valid point. Sometimes on the other end of a blank profile, is just some creeper trying to get his rocks off. Meanwhile, on the other hand, on some profiles, the guy on the other end is just trying to find a balance between his identity and sexuality. I've talked to people who feel the need to upload no photo because they're too afraid of being discovered- especially if they're in a small college town in the South, which I suppose I can't blame them for.

    Agree completely and thanks for the comment. I think people are so worried about being considered naive in believing a message compared to other, "more sophisticated" people, that the negative response is encouraged. They feel it's safer for the ego to say something is false, and maybe later relent, then take a message at face value, then later be shown to have been duped.



    Good point.