The Greece next door: Illinois gets a credit downgrade, in contrast to Wisconsin. Moody's praised Walker's budget

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    Jan 23, 2012 4:15 AM GMT
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204555904577164944279702590.html?mod=ITP_opinion_2

    Excerpts:

    Run up spending and debt, raise taxes in the naming of balancing the budget, but then watch as deficits rise and your credit-rating falls anyway. That's been the sad pattern in Europe, and now it's hitting that mecca of tax-and-spend government known as Illinois.

    Though too few noticed, this month Moody's downgraded Illinois state debt to A2 from A1, the lowest among the 50 states. That's worse even than California. The state's cost of borrowing for $800 million of new 10-year general obligation bonds rose to 3.1%—which is 110 basis points higher than the 2% on top-rated 10-year bonds of more financially secure states.

    This wasn't supposed to happen. Only a year ago, Governor Pat Quinn and his fellow Democrats raised individual income taxes by 67% and the corporate tax rate by 46%. They did it to raise $7 billion in revenue, as the Governor put it, to "get Illinois back on fiscal sound footing" and improve the state's credit rating.
    ...
    In contrast to the Illinois downgrade, Moody's has praised Mr. Walker's budget as "credit positive for Wisconsin," adding that the money-saving reforms bring "the state's finances closer to a structural budgetary balance." As a result, Wisconsin jumped in Chief Executive magazine's 2011 ranking of each state's business climate—moving to 17th from 41st. Illinois dropped to 48th from 45th as ranked by the nation's top CEOs.

    Yet Mr. Walker, who balanced the budget without new taxes, is the governor facing a union-financed attempt to recall him from office this year. If Wisconsin voters want to see where a state ends up without the kind of reforms that Mr. Walker made, they need only look to the Greece next door.
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    Jan 23, 2012 4:32 AM GMT
    I'm sure that douche bags at Moody's love the fact that Walker did tax give aways for the ultra rich and paid for them on the backs of the middle and working class. The ratings agencies are rewarding predatory capitalism.
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    Jan 23, 2012 4:41 AM GMT
    socalfitness saidhttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204555904577164944279702590.html?mod=ITP_opinion_2

    Excerpts:

    Run up spending and debt, raise taxes in the naming of balancing the budget, but then watch as deficits rise and your credit-rating falls anyway. That's been the sad pattern in Europe, and now it's hitting that mecca of tax-and-spend government known as Illinois.

    Though too few noticed, this month Moody's downgraded Illinois state debt to A2 from A1, the lowest among the 50 states. That's worse even than California. The state's cost of borrowing for $800 million of new 10-year general obligation bonds rose to 3.1%—which is 110 basis points higher than the 2% on top-rated 10-year bonds of more financially secure states.

    This wasn't supposed to happen. Only a year ago, Governor Pat Quinn and his fellow Democrats raised individual income taxes by 67% and the corporate tax rate by 46%. They did it to raise $7 billion in revenue, as the Governor put it, to "get Illinois back on fiscal sound footing" and improve the state's credit rating.
    ...
    In contrast to the Illinois downgrade, Moody's has praised Mr. Walker's budget as "credit positive for Wisconsin," adding that the money-saving reforms bring "the state's finances closer to a structural budgetary balance." As a result, Wisconsin jumped in Chief Executive magazine's 2011 ranking of each state's business climate—moving to 17th from 41st. Illinois dropped to 48th from 45th as ranked by the nation's top CEOs.

    Yet Mr. Walker, who balanced the budget without new taxes, is the governor facing a union-financed attempt to recall him from office this year. If Wisconsin voters want to see where a state ends up without the kind of reforms that Mr. Walker made, they need only look to the Greece next door.


    I'm certain you've read what Rick Snyder and the Repubs have done in Michigan? Is there a pattern developing here?
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    Jan 23, 2012 10:55 AM GMT
    Christian73 saidI'm sure that douche bags at Moody's love the fact that Walker did tax give aways for the ultra rich and paid for them on the backs of the middle and working class. The ratings agencies are rewarding predatory capitalism.

    Nothing but a deflection. Dems and union bosses are just trying to make an example of Walker. Fact is even Gov Brown and the LA Times realize that public employee benefits have become excessive and are breaking the backs of the states. As the facts become so obvious, even some liberal leaning politicians and media start to take responsible positions. Union bosses and far left zealots never will. http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/31/local/la-me-cap-pensions-20111031
  • GQjock

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    Jan 23, 2012 11:55 AM GMT
    Wait .... does Moodys praise Orange County California too icon_biggrin.gif

    Whatever your comparisons are Walker is gonna get recalled you can bring up Illinois you can bring up Detroit ... whatever you want Scotty is gonna get his papers
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    Jan 23, 2012 12:06 PM GMT
    GQjock saidWait .... does Moodys praise Orange County California too icon_biggrin.gif

    Whatever your comparisons are Walker is gonna get recalled you can bring up Illinois you can bring up Detroit ... whatever you want Scotty is gonna get his papers



    Aa2 for OC, CA

    http://california.municipalbonds.com/bonds/moodys_reports

    Great job Scott Walker. Keep it up!
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    Jan 23, 2012 12:21 PM GMT
    GQjock saidWait .... does Moodys praise Orange County California too icon_biggrin.gif

    Whatever your comparisons are Walker is gonna get recalled you can bring up Illinois you can bring up Detroit ... whatever you want Scotty is gonna get his papers

    http://www.moodys.com/research/MOODYS-ASSIGNS-Aa2-RATING-TO-ORANGE-COUNTYS-CA-2012-PENSION--PR_234478

    OPINION

    Moody's Investors Service has assigned an Aa2 rating to Orange County's (CA)Taxable Pension Obligation Bonds Series 2012. We have also affirmed the county's other long-term ratings and stable outlook.

    RATING RATIONALE

    The rating assignment for the new sale reflects the county's narrow but stable fiscal position that is bolstered by strong cash resources outside of the general fund. The availability of these monies is a key credit element that offsets what will be a notably high debt burden at maturity of the current sale in 2013. The rating also incorporates the county's very large and gradually improving economy and typical debt burdens as a percentage of assessed value. The obligation to pay debt service on the bonds is an absolute and unconditional obligation of the County, payable from lawfully available funds and not limited to any special source of funds.
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    Jan 23, 2012 12:33 PM GMT
    Michigan is Aa2. 3 from the top rating

    And the latest rating I see for California is A3. Just 3 steps above junk.

    Even Indiana is AAA .... oops Mitch Daniels a god damn Repub.
    Ohio is AA+ .... oops another wretched Repub
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    Jan 23, 2012 2:44 PM GMT
    Even in a small sample of messages in this thread, notice a pattern? The guys on the right are pointing to analyses, numbers, without superfluous rhetoric thrown in. The guys on the left provide nothing, and in one case a false implication regarding Orange Co. Calif. The ratings organizations are the messengers, reflecting some very basic figures of the economies, yet they are attacked, again without substance.
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    Jan 23, 2012 2:54 PM GMT
    Though Wisconsin is bitterly divided, Walker has really done well for our state.
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    Jan 23, 2012 3:12 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    socalfitness saidEven in a small sample of messages in this thread, notice a pattern? The guys on the right are pointing to analyses, numbers, without superfluous rhetoric thrown in. The guys on the left provide nothing, and in one case a false implication regarding Orange Co. Calif. The ratings organizations are the messengers, reflecting some very basic figures of the economies, yet they are attacked, again without substance.



    That's because liberals "think" via emotion. It's just the way their brains are wired.


    No. It's because the ratings agencies have proven themselves to be completely devoid of any substance (remember their role in the 2007 financial crisis), and do not warrant being taken seriously.
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    Jan 23, 2012 3:39 PM GMT
    "That's because liberals "think" via emotion. It's just the way their brains are wired."


    Stupid Comment Of The Day.


    ...and we wondered why some liberals on here get mad and make sweeping statements about conservatives.
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    Jan 23, 2012 3:46 PM GMT
    meninlove said "That's because liberals "think" via emotion. It's just the way their brains are wired."


    Stupid Comment Of The Day.


    ...and we wondered why some liberals on here get mad and make sweeping statements about conservatives.


    It is true that liberal lenses tends to be on the more emotional side of things. Many times there's a lack of deeper analysis and issues are treated as though they were isolated from a bigger picture.
  • nanidesukedo

    Posts: 1036

    Jan 23, 2012 3:48 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    meninlove said "That's because liberals "think" via emotion. It's just the way their brains are wired."


    Stupid Comment Of The Day.


    ...and we wondered why some liberals on here get mad and make sweeping statements about conservatives.


    It is true that liberal lenses tends to be on the more emotional side of things. Many times there's a lack of deeper analysis and issues are treated as though they were isolated from a bigger picture.


    Oh, yes. All hail the deep analytical skill of conservatives who think that laws should be based off religious doctrine! Careful about those sweeping generalizations that you attempt to make in order to belittle the arguments of those whom you disagree with, as they can quickly be tossed right back at you..
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    Jan 23, 2012 3:49 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    meninlove said "That's because liberals "think" via emotion. It's just the way their brains are wired."


    Stupid Comment Of The Day.


    ...and we wondered why some liberals on here get mad and make sweeping statements about conservatives.


    It is true that liberal lenses tends to be on the more emotional side of things. Many times there's a lack of deeper analysis and issues are treated as though they were isolated from a bigger picture.


    Second stupidest comment of the day.
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    Jan 23, 2012 4:13 PM GMT
    This rebuttal was entirely expected. icon_wink.gif

    "Oh, yes. All hail the deep analytical skill of conservatives who think that laws should be based off religious doctrine!"

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    Jan 23, 2012 4:19 PM GMT
    nanidesukedo said
    mocktwinkie said
    meninlove said "That's because liberals "think" via emotion. It's just the way their brains are wired."


    Stupid Comment Of The Day.


    ...and we wondered why some liberals on here get mad and make sweeping statements about conservatives.


    It is true that liberal lenses tends to be on the more emotional side of things. Many times there's a lack of deeper analysis and issues are treated as though they were isolated from a bigger picture.


    Oh, yes. All hail the deep analytical skill of conservatives who think that laws should be based off religious doctrine! Careful about those sweeping generalizations that you attempt to make in order to belittle the arguments of those whom you disagree with, as they can quickly be tossed right back at you..


    I'm not talking about the religious aspect, I'm talking about in terms of societal structure or economics or practical analysis for long-term sustainability.
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    Jan 23, 2012 4:35 PM GMT

    Mock, Mr SB Liar derailed what was otherwise an interesting topic with a nasty sweeping put down of all liberals. You stepped right into the mess.

    As for the religiosity nuts invading the conservative parties, may of them think with the bible instead of their brains, and that includes societal structure and economics and practical analysis for long-term sustainability. However, I would never be so blatantly stupid to say all conservatives are like that. Ignorance of that magnitude is a trademark of SB.
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    Jan 23, 2012 4:38 PM GMT
    It's a stupid put-down. We know plenty of liberals in the US, just as we have friends and family that are Republicans, we have friends and family that are Democrats.

    Go away. You stink.
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    Jan 23, 2012 4:47 PM GMT

    Pish posh on your lame cleverness. You forget there are lots of men on RJ who have both Republican and Democratic relatives and friends.

    I think it prudent for both sides on RJ to consider this very carefully.

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    Jan 23, 2012 4:52 PM GMT
    nanidesukedo said
    mocktwinkie said
    meninlove said "That's because liberals "think" via emotion. It's just the way their brains are wired."


    Stupid Comment Of The Day.


    ...and we wondered why some liberals on here get mad and make sweeping statements about conservatives.


    It is true that liberal lenses tends to be on the more emotional side of things. Many times there's a lack of deeper analysis and issues are treated as though they were isolated from a bigger picture.


    Oh, yes. All hail the deep analytical skill of conservatives who think that laws should be based off religious doctrine! Careful about those sweeping generalizations that you attempt to make in order to belittle the arguments of those whom you disagree with, as they can quickly be tossed right back at you..

    Would you care to cite arguments based on religious doctrine that have been made by conservatives here that liberals don't agree with? The reason I added the qualifier is that empathy for the poor, displayed by at least me could be viewed as based on religious doctrine, but I think liberals would agree.
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    Jan 23, 2012 4:52 PM GMT
    I never made a sweeping blanket generalization, I said "tends".
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    Jan 23, 2012 4:58 PM GMT
    "Would you care to cite arguments based on religious doctrine that have been made by conservatives here that liberals don't agree with?"

    I can think of two immediately that also used to post in the spirituality forums. One was booted and the other left.

    The poster was referring to Conservatives as a whole, biting back at what SB said about liberals as a whole. Entirely expected considering SB's stupid remark.

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    Jan 23, 2012 5:10 PM GMT
    meninlove said"Would you care to cite arguments based on religious doctrine that have been made by conservatives here that liberals don't agree with?"

    I can think of two immediately that also used to post in the spirituality forums. One was booted and the other left.

    The poster was referring to Conservatives as a whole, biting back at what SB said about liberals as a whole. Entirely expected considering SB's stupid remark.

    Not familiar but I am referring to political discussions in this folder.
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    Jan 23, 2012 5:13 PM GMT
    By folder you mean in this topic? This forum?

    At any rate, please go back to the topic at hand. I was enjoying the debate over Moody's.