Mormons against California's gay marriage

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 25, 2008 4:46 AM GMT
    This Sunday, Mormons will be asked to "do all they can" to support the November ballot measure attempting to overturn the recent State Supreme Court ruling affirming gay marriage.

    PDF of the request is here:

    http://www.affirmation.org/pdf/2008_06_23_first_presidency.pdf

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    Jun 25, 2008 4:58 AM GMT
    Digusting...

    As a former Mormon I just don't see how a religion that on the surface says Love and accept is so worried about Gay Marriage. But then again, it is an organized religion.

    What happened to unconditional love???
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    Jun 25, 2008 8:18 AM GMT
    polobutt saidDigusting...

    As a former Mormon I just don't see how a religion that on the surface says Love and accept is so worried about Gay Marriage. But then again, it is an organized religion.

    What happened to unconditional love???


    Oh they totally love you, if you fall into line, do exactly as they do and forget that you are your own person.

    They love you then and only then!
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    Jun 25, 2008 8:24 AM GMT
    Ooh God loves you alright. He even made a special place called hell. icon_wink.gif

    Ah the power of mass brainwashing. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Do this, do that, don't question.
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    Jun 25, 2008 9:50 AM GMT
    polobutt saidDigusting...

    As a former Mormon I just don't see how a religion that on the surface says Love and accept is so worried about Gay Marriage. But then again, it is an organized religion.

    What happened to unconditional love???


    Yes but you can be no less surprised than I.

    I know the church put lots of money to stop this from coming to pass some time ago.

    I have heard many a time in my life, in the church about homosexuals: "well it's illegal anyway."

    I always wondered what the church would do, if law was passed so it was no more. I'm sure they will stand the moral ground, and stand stead fast: well it's against Gods Law. Thus still wrong.

    But the Mormons will not be on their own, I'm sure.

    How religion poisons everthing...
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    Jun 25, 2008 12:03 PM GMT
    Anybody catch the episode of "30 Days" last night where a woman who is Mormon moves in with a gay couple with four adopted kids?

    It surprises me how poorly people communicate sometimes, even when trying to convey a belief that they really want to stand up for. Especially once people start getting defensive, complete sentences go right out the window and adults turn to talking over the other person, making assumptions... drama. If you're going to argue logically, you can't be a baby about it, no matter how personal the issue is.
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    Jun 25, 2008 12:13 PM GMT
    Can we revoke their tax-exempt status?
  • docmarvy

    Posts: 122

    Jun 25, 2008 12:54 PM GMT
    iguanaSF said Mormons will be asked to "do all they can" to support the November ballot measure attempting to overturn the recent State Supreme Court ruling affirming gay marriage.

    "do all they can"?

    So, like what... scrapbook? angrily do a bunch of genealogy?

    No offense to the Mormon RJ'ers (does such a unicorn exist?), but the intimidation tactic of a bunch of friendly, clean, wholesome families sternly telling me how to live my life is about as threatening as a baby dressed up like Dracula. Sure, Dracula is scary, but it's baby dracula.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jun 25, 2008 1:11 PM GMT
    RunintheCity saidCan we revoke their tax-exempt status?



    You're a freakin' genius! That's BRILLIANT!!!!
  • gym_rat_7

    Posts: 25

    Jun 25, 2008 1:20 PM GMT
    I think that Mormons and Christians have a guilt factor going on. They feel that their God will judge them when they die (or get sucked up in the rapture) for allowing "sin" as they see it.

    Now...the Bible clearly says not to eat shellfish for it is a sin AND that gluttony is a sin. Now flash to any buffet and see you see a Christian or Mormon stuffing their face. Just look at Jerry Falwell...he was so fat I thought he was going to explode. 10 starving kids in a third world country could be fed with the amount of food that Jerry would put away at one sitting.

    The Church has "selective sins" now and you can pick and choose what you want. It's just fabulous.

    I once heard a pastor say...and I quote "The Bible is either all right, or it is all wrong". I wonder if they believed that or not?
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    Jun 25, 2008 1:31 PM GMT
    See if I open my door to that bicycle-riding-bastard again! Even if he is cute in that white shirt. icon_wink.gif
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    Jun 25, 2008 2:19 PM GMT
    Why do people feel the need to shove their opinions and beliefs down other peoples throats? Why can't Marriage be defined as between two consenting adults? If people don't like living in the "land of the free" they are "free" to leave and live somewhere else. Maybe all the like minded religious zealots should go live in United Arab Emirates or somewhere and leave the rest of us in peace. Pretty sure their "god" gave all humans free will. I really don't like the thought of Free Will inside boundries, just seems like an oxymoron to me.
    And what ever happened to seperation of church and state? Maybe they need to go back and read the founding documents of our country. Like the Declaration of Independence.
    Or study some relevant court cases like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia

    "The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.
    The phrase is used in the depression-era case Meyer v. Nebraska, 262 U.S. 390 (1923), which is seen as the seminal case interpreting the "liberty" interest of the Due Process clause of the 14th amendment as guaranteeing, among other things, a right to the pursuit of happiness, and, consequently, a right to privacy."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life,_liberty_and_the_pursuit_of_happiness

    anyway, i'm not really rambling or upset, i just don't like this kind of stuff.
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    Jun 25, 2008 2:23 PM GMT
    RunintheCity saidCan we revoke their tax-exempt status?

    Ding! Ding! Ding! Answer of the day! Well done, runner!
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    Jun 25, 2008 3:10 PM GMT
    a good quote

    Martin Luther wrote:

    Furthermore, every man is responsible for his own faith, and he must see it for himself that he believes rightly. As little as another can go to hell or heaven for me, so little can he believe or disbelieve for me; and as little as he can open or shut heaven or hell for me, so little can he drive me to faith or unbelief. Since, then, belief or unbelief is a matter of every one's conscience, and since this is no lessening of the secular power, the latter should be content and attend to its own affairs and permit men to believe one thing or another, as they are able and willing, and constrain no one by force.
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    Jun 25, 2008 3:15 PM GMT
    Faithful mormons tithe 10% of their gross income to the church which they all claim as a charitable deduction on their tax returns. Imagine how they'd be hurt if they couldn't get the deduction.

    The letter is pretty carefully worded, but it does bump up against the boundary of the separation that ought to exist between church and state.

    We ought to expect this from ALL conservative churches in California, though. They're going to be fighting against gay marriage tooth and nail.
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    Jun 25, 2008 3:39 PM GMT
    The Internal Revenue Code prohibits political campaign activity by charities and churches by defining a 501(c)(3) organization as one "which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office." Unfortunately, one can interpret the Code to mean that church endorsement of a ballot initiative would not necessarily equate to endorsement of a candidate, which is clearly prohibited. I'm sure this issue was raised in the 2004 election with all of the marriage amendments in various states. We know that in reality, churches getting behind these amendments benefited the Republican party, but the support was indirect and did not necessarily run afoul of 501(c)(3).

    Personally, I do not think that attempts to strip churches of 501(c)(3) status is good policy. It is a double-edged sword. The best way to combat vocal and organized campaigns is to become more vocal and organized yourself.


  • metta

    Posts: 39090

    Jun 25, 2008 3:42 PM GMT
    The Mormons were out in force in Calfironia to push for Prop 22, so it does not really surprise me. They treated it like it was some kind of war and nothing else mattered. It was sickening. It will not surprise me to see them do it again in November.
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    Jun 25, 2008 3:53 PM GMT
    BodyWork4 saidSee if I open my door to that bicycle-riding-bastard again! Even if he is cute in that white shirt. icon_wink.gif


    Damn aren't some of those missionary's sexy in their white shirts and ties...

    But I would prefer that they knock on my door and ask for a sponge bath.
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    Jun 25, 2008 4:00 PM GMT
    polobuttDamn aren't some of those missionary's sexy in their white shirts and ties...

    But I would prefer that they knock on my door and ask for a sponge bath.


    Tell them it's time to get re-baptized.
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    Jun 25, 2008 4:36 PM GMT
    I'm wondering is this is just a huge Morman political ploy . When gay marriage goes mainstream and has established legal precedent there will be no way in hell to stop legal polygamy.
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    Jun 25, 2008 4:38 PM GMT
    I know for some Christians it's a blood guilt. The action, dunno about the marriage bit. It's like someone going down a road that leads into a mine field, your obliged to inform them of the danger lest you have their blood on your hands.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14310

    Jun 26, 2008 12:21 AM GMT
    Who the hell are the Mormons to pressure the people of California not to approve gay marriage. Their so called church is nothing more than a brainwashing cult. Even many conservative christian sects condemn the Mormon Church as a cult. Those friggin Mormons should mind their own damn business and keep their holier than thou asses in Utah and Idaho.
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    Jun 26, 2008 12:21 AM GMT
    docmarvy said[quote]

    So, like what... scrapbook? angrily do a bunch of genealogy?

    No offense to the Mormon RJ'ers (does such a unicorn exist?), but the intimidation tactic of a bunch of friendly, clean, wholesome families sternly telling me how to live my life is about as threatening as a baby dressed up like Dracula. Sure, Dracula is scary, but it's baby dracula.



    That is pretty funny! You should be warned that Mormons can handle a hole-punch with deadly precision! And only the cursed survive long enough to see the stickers and glitter come out.

    Another Mormon-raised Realjocker here. In fact, I was a missionary in California and know the Mormon mentality there relatively well. Here's another perspective for consideration: There really is a noble and pure-hearted motivation behind the cause, no matter how ignorant or offensive it may seem. There will be a lot of Mormons in Cali with gay friends and family who will sincerely say to their loved ones, "It's not personal." And it likely won't be. It's mostly rooted in a doctrinal obligation to do what they can for the salvation of others (both born or unborn). With their emphasis on the family unit as being central to God's plan, the idea that a same-sex couple would be recognized by the government (insinuating to impressionable souls that the practice is acceptable), or that such recognition would undoubtedly lead to more children being born (or adopted/invitro'd/immaculately conceived) into gay homes, is hugely threatening. Keep in mind that the ultimate goal/reward in God's plan (as understood in Mormonism) is happiness in this life and the next, which can only come from adherence to God's guidance. SO...*inhale*... It's not believed that it is an attack on gays, but a consideration of the broader picture of the eternities and trying to make "happiness" an option for as many as possible and prevent the loss of souls in the long-term. So when your Mormon friends tell you that it's not personal, for them it's not. It's just a fine example of how someone can learn to hate the sin, but love the sinner... even when it seems like warfare. It's sorta similar to some native spiritual practices where prayers and rites are performed when they've killed an animal and are about to eat its brains... they respect the animal, hold no animosity toward it, but the bloodshed is deemed necessary... Clearly there will be no bloodshed or eating of brains with the Mormons, but respect and aggression can exist simultaneously.

    [... ooooh.... I've kind of opened a can of worms with that last analogy, understanding that it could be applied to a Jihad or holocaust in it's most fanatical application. That's the spectrum of religion's potential to intersect with the rights, beliefs and lives of others, I suppose.]

    Clearly, I can't agree with the call to action, but I can understand where it comes from and why it'll be pursued with a good degree of passion... And I can't help but acknowledge that they believe they're doing it FOR us, not TO us.

    So we've covered glitter, God, brain eating and Jihad. I think I've done enough here.
  • metalxracr

    Posts: 761

    Jun 26, 2008 12:24 AM GMT
    That's stupid. But seeing John McCaine banners in here is hilarious.
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    Jun 26, 2008 12:41 AM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidWho the hell are the Mormons to pressure the people of California not to approve gay marriage. Their so called church is nothing more than a brainwashing cult. Even many conservative christian sects condemn the Mormon Church as a cult. Those friggin Mormons should mind their own damn business and keep their holier than thou asses in Utah and Idaho.


    Don't you think they're saying the same thing about us? "Who the hell are gays to demand that California grant them marriage rights? Their so called "marriages" are nothing more than orgies with tax-breaks. Even the pedophilic polygamists think the gays are hell-bound perverts. Those friggin gays should mind their own damn business and keep their gym rat asses in slings and Prada."

    icon_smile.gif

    People can be passionate, can't they?