why gays exist

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 26, 2008 12:57 AM GMT
    http://www.slate.com/id/2194232/

    To help women make babies.

    reminds me of a section of slaughterhourse five where the aliens tell humanity that although they can't see it, it takes more than 2 people to have a child (the alien culture can see through time and sees that without homosexuals children would never be born). anyway if you dont' read vonnegut, shame on you.
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    Jun 26, 2008 6:39 AM GMT
    This article is pretty interesting, thanks for sharing it. There's a crazy coincidence, I think, on http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2008-06/evidence-suggests-genes-are-indeed-selfish.

    This article talks about Richard Dawkin's selfish-gene theory and applies it to sterile worker bees. They can't have baby bees, but by being sterile and working like bees, bee genes are passed on.

    Maybe gay men are just like worker bees! I know a few who are just, like, Queen B's, but I don't think the theory explains that yet.

    God bless Richard Dawkins! icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jun 26, 2008 6:46 AM GMT
    carthesis saidanyway if you dont' read vonnegut, shame on you.


    I LOVE Vonnegut!
  • dcarm

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    Jun 26, 2008 7:11 AM GMT
    makeumyne saidGod bless Richard Dawkins! icon_biggrin.gif


    He'd have a fit if he heard you say that, lol.
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    Jun 26, 2008 7:13 AM GMT
    Yes, now that's what I'd call irony, Alanis Morrisette.
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    Jun 26, 2008 9:07 AM GMT
    From ArticleHow would gay men see themselves and be regarded in a society that understood their condition as a side effect of female evolution?


    icon_lol.gif So we're like... the eunuchs that tend to the harem? Heh

    makeumyne
    This article talks about Richard Dawkin's selfish-gene theory and applies it to sterile worker bees. They can't have baby bees, but by being sterile and working like bees, bee genes are passed on.


    And the males (drones) of ants and bees, who aren't even equipped with the ability to feed themselves. They have to be fed by workers. After the mating flight, they die of starvation. They exist solely to fertilize the females and nothing else. Though it's not the same, since worker bees/ants/termites never get to reproduce at all.

    There are primitive ants though in which the workers sometimes lay eggs of their own. The Ponerines and Bulldog ants do that I think.
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    Jun 26, 2008 10:41 AM GMT
    ArticleBut it does explain the high similarity of sexual orientation between identical twins, as well as patterns of homosexuality in families.


    More notable is how it completely does not explain or address the difference that occurs btwn identical twins, right?
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    Jun 26, 2008 11:10 AM GMT
    I've always thought of it as an evolutionary form of population control.
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    Jun 26, 2008 12:59 PM GMT
    i always thought that too- and maybe a mystical evolutionary tendency toward a reintegration of the hermaphroditic state of grace described in many creation stories :p we have the best of both worlds- masculine practicality and feminine creativity and sensitivity/common sense. i mean come on, there are a lot of negative things to say about a lot of negative gays, but on the whole we're usually smarter, wittier, healthier, and made of stronger stuff (cause we have to be) than anyone else in the room, in my experience.

    in any case, i feel we're the lucky ones, the chosen few- if only society agreed, we'd have it made. its like how the really well endowed kid gets beaten up in the middle school locker room and tormented relentlessly because 1) he's different and 2) everyone's jealous :p
  • gym_rat_7

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    Jun 26, 2008 1:30 PM GMT
    czarodziej saidi always thought that too- and maybe a mystical evolutionary tendency toward a reintegration of the hermaphroditic state of grace described in many creation stories :p we have the best of both worlds- masculine practicality and feminine creativity and sensitivity/common sense. i mean come on, there are a lot of negative things to say about a lot of negative gays, but on the whole we're usually smarter, wittier, healthier, and made of stronger stuff (cause we have to be) than anyone else in the room, in my experience.

    in any case, i feel we're the lucky ones, the chosen few- if only society agreed, we'd have it made. :p


    I agree with you totally. We grow up smarter, stronger and wiser (for those of us who make it to adult hood and don't commit suicide).

    Maybe homosexuality is a "natural" way for nature to have more parents to care for children whose parents had died.
    There were (are ?) American Indian tribes that felt it was a honor to have a gay son or daughter...so we were not always hated so much in every culture. But Christianity has been infused with a lot of hate...even though Jesus preached against hate and wanted everyone to love. Unfortunately, many Christians didn't understand the "love" message.
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    Jun 26, 2008 1:44 PM GMT
    Why are people obsessed with the roots of same-sex attraction? Is it because it involves (god gorbid) SEX!

    I would like you to try an exercise in which instead of the word "gay" you substitute the word "genius".

    Here is a possible scenario between a mother and father.

    Mom - "Oh My God Frank, Jonathan is a genius, what are we going to do? He is not like the other boys, he is abnormal!"

    Dad - "Well Gladys if you had not insisted that he practice the violin instead of playing sports with the other boys after school, maybe he would have a normal IQ"

    Mom - "So you are saying it is my fault that he is not mentally mediocre like his peers, and doesn't get C averages in Engligh? Well maybe if you had spent more time with him instead of going out with your friends drinking after work, he would have learned how to become your normal, insensitive and boorish guy that we all wanted him to be."

    Dad - "I don't want to talk about it I am going to O'Reilly's to have a pint."
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 26, 2008 1:51 PM GMT
    I exist because I was born. Being gay is just one facet of the human experience.
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    Jun 26, 2008 1:53 PM GMT
    science can describe that which it observes. one large group of humans who form mixed gender couples who often have kids and another much smaller group who have same gender relations and sometimes have kids.


    that's it.
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    Jun 26, 2008 1:54 PM GMT
    We want to know because we're curious. We like to know where we come from and what's come before to get us in the situations that we have to deal with now, and hopefully to be able to learn from prior experiences. It's not a necessity because we still will live our lives regardless, but it's another tool to help make our lives better, if we know how to use them correctly in our own lives.
  • gym_rat_7

    Posts: 25

    Jun 26, 2008 1:54 PM GMT
    I just found this article on "distortions" of truths and science by people like James Dobson (Focus on the Family) so check it out.

    http://respectmyresearch.org/distortions.html
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    Jul 05, 2008 12:24 AM GMT
    Article> They conclude that only one theory fits the data.

    More than 100 years ago, the director of the patent office thought it should be closed because everything worth inventing already was.


    Article> The gene for male homosexuality persists because it promotes—and is passed down through—high rates of procreation among gay men's mothers, sisters, and aunts.

    Is this necessarily causal? Doesn't it follow that the more procreation there is (more children) the odds increase that one (or more) will be gay?

    There are also social implications. Neither of my (2) siblings have chilren. There is thus more social/family pressure on me to produce grand-children. Thus it may be that children in larger families are more likely to come out.


    Article> implies natural limits to homosexuality. You don't need to worry that gay teachers or television characters will "convert" hordes of boys.

    Really? This is news?! (Guess I can stop putting that photo of the hot guy under my pillow, hoping that'll make him gay. What next? Should I throw away my voodoo dolls?)

    The issue with "recruiting" is providing a viable alternative to the closet, or trying to pass through life as straight, marrying, maybe having children, etc.


    Article> you can't culturally eradicate the gay minority. It's sustained by genetics and natural selection.

    Whew. Here I thought that if someone offed Madonna I'd turn straight.


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    Jul 05, 2008 12:46 AM GMT
    devildoginco saidI exist because I was born. Being gay is just one facet of the human experience.


    THANK YOU!
    Some individuals are attuned to it while others are not.
    It doesn't make us any less human.
    We are all born with the possibility.
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    Jul 05, 2008 3:50 AM GMT
    Evolutionarily speaking, gays exist because they help support their straight siblings' children, giving them an advantage to get their genes to the next generation. Genes, that the gay individual shares. So the likelihood is the gay gene(s) are being promoted as well.

    As opposed to a totally straight scenario where all the siblings are competing against each other as they raise their children, lessening the chance of them getting their genes to the next generation.

    So there is an evolutionary advantage to a population of related individuals to have a certain percentage of the population to be related but not breeding...i.e., gay.
  • GQjock

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    Jul 05, 2008 9:55 AM GMT
    I know we can look at it this way we're gay... we exist and that's all we need to know
    But gayness and homosexuality has been we the human race since the beginning of time. So there must be an evolutionary imperative to having a segment of a human population being gay
    I don't think we are anywhere near the answer
    To help with childrearing? ... are you kidding me?

    I'm more inclined to think that like physical characteristics that are determined by evolution and the evolutionary process, Civilization too is changed and guided by evolution and it's the need for man to exist within the confines of a Civilization that we come to need homosexuality
    We are the shapers and thinkers of our time and of all time before us
    Just look at the record of civilized man ... gay men and women are way over represented in any field
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    Jul 07, 2008 1:08 AM GMT
    accoding to my old roommate (who has another thread based on him)

    "gays are created to help with the over population problem"


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    Jul 07, 2008 1:32 AM GMT
    caesarea4 said
    More than 100 years ago, the director of the patent office thought it should be closed because everything worth inventing already was.

    A popular myth but untrue.
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    Jul 07, 2008 2:24 AM GMT
    But it's such a powerful anecdote... who cares if it's not true? (:

    (Thanks.)
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    Jul 07, 2008 2:47 AM GMT

    Doug here, and I'm with the overpopulation scenario. It's been seen in dolphin studies etc.