Too Much Protein Harms What Organ? 40 Grams of Protein / Day Is Not Enough, I'm Told.

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    Jan 28, 2012 9:51 PM GMT
    Hi,

    I asked a middle-aged man who lift weights, is 40 grams of protein per day too much on the internal organs.

    He told me 40 grams of protein isn't nearly enough protein per day. (I'd say he is about 6'2", 225, absolutely no sign of whatever percent of muscle loss per year after some age in the middle age phase of life.) He said, "I take 300 grams of protein per day."

    In all fairness, of the hundreds of men during the week in the weight lifting area of my gym, he is, in my estimation, in the top 1% of achievers. (So, I asked an "expert" about protein consumption per day; but, he didn't acknowledge something I used to hear all the time, that protein consumption is tough on one or more of the internal organs.)

    I look forward to your comments.
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    Jan 28, 2012 10:48 PM GMT
    Misunderstood what OP was trying to get information about. Typed in the car hastily and I apologize.
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    Jan 29, 2012 12:44 AM GMT
    Quality not quantity. Ideally plant protein is great. But not everyone is vegan.
    Hemp is super digestible. Also amino acids from lots of leafy greens is so good for ya too!

    The china study is a great eye opening book that sheds light on the myths of crazy high protein diets. Depends on your goals though.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4864

    Jan 29, 2012 1:16 AM GMT
    At one time, the daily amount of protein recommended for the average man was 100 grams. However, that was revised sharply downward when it was found to be unnecessary. Later, it was found that excessive protein can cause kidney damage, although until I read this thread, I'd never heard of it's causing kidney stones. The kidney damage caused by excessive protein is very gradual and generally not noticed until considerable damage has been done by which time dialysis may be required. Fortunately, the acceptable range of protein intake is fairly wide.

    In 1996, I had kidney stones. They are considered to be one of the most painful medical conditions there is; they were more painful than the compound leg fracture I had years later. The pain is so bad that it can even cause vomiting; it did for me. Controlling the pain requires a large injection of narcotics. There is controversy about how to avoid them. Some medical personnel assert that drinking plenty of water helps to prevent them, but I don't know how much proof there is. Some people who maintain a high state of hydration still get kidney stones, and some people who seem to have a fluid intake that is too low never get them, so obviously insufficient fluid intake cannot be the only risk factor. Some people get kidney stones repeatedly, but fortunately, I've had them only once.
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    Jan 29, 2012 1:44 AM GMT
    If you get your protein from animals, plants are OK too if made from scratch, the protein will absorb s-l-o-w-l-y and will not tax the organs. Protein from protein powders may however assault the organs as these do not digest slowly and are more of a shock to the body.

    At least this is what was told to me by experts on a Paleo diet site. Also for paleo, eat 1gm of protein for each desired pound of body weight. So for example, to get 60 grams of protein from cooked meat, eat about 200 grams of meat.
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    Jan 29, 2012 2:19 AM GMT
    Kidneys, supposedly.

    But it's bullshit. Making an organ work harder isn't bad for it.

    The concern seemed to be that damage could occur without proper hydration.

    No shit. Drink fucking water.

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    Jan 29, 2012 2:20 AM GMT
    FRE0 saidAt one time, the daily amount of protein recommended for the average man was 100 grams. However, that was revised sharply downward when it was found to be unnecessary. Later, it was found that excessive protein can cause kidney damage, although until I read this thread, I'd never heard of it's causing kidney stones. The kidney damage caused by excessive protein is very gradual and generally not noticed until considerable damage has been done by which time dialysis may be required. Fortunately, the acceptable range of protein intake is fairly wide.

    In 1996, I had kidney stones. They are considered to be one of the most painful medical conditions there is; they were more painful than the compound leg fracture I had years later. The pain is so bad that it can even cause vomiting; it did for me. Controlling the pain requires a large injection of narcotics. There is controversy about how to avoid them. Some medical personnel assert that drinking plenty of water helps to prevent them, but I don't know how much proof there is. Some people who maintain a high state of hydration still get kidney stones, and some people who seem to have a fluid intake that is too low never get them, so obviously insufficient fluid intake cannot be the only risk factor. Some people get kidney stones repeatedly, but fortunately, I've had them only once.


    The biggest factor in getting kidney stones is:

    If you've had them before.
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    Jan 29, 2012 2:31 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidI eat about 200g of protein a day and I weight 196lb.

    So far, I'm forty and I have no problems with any organs. It's important to flush the kidneys by drinking a lot of water.

    Also there are herbs that are said to be good for kidneys like watermelon seeds and I think dandelion or dandelion root is good for them as well.


    I think cranberry juice is also good for kidneys, I believe. But most cranberry juice out there is mixed with apple juice and other very-high-sugar-content juices.

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    Jan 29, 2012 2:50 AM GMT
    JETaylor said(NASM Certified PT)

    The general consensus is:

    IF you are a competition bodybuilder, ONLY in the off season should you consume a 2g of protein to 1/kg of body weight.
    During gym training it ranges to from a 1:1 ration to max of 1.5:1


    Page 426 of NASM CPT text book:

    Protein Recommendations [g/kg per day]

    Minimum acceptable intake:
    Bodybuilder 1.0; Active Recreational Athlete (ARA) 1.0; Endurance Athlete (EA) 1.4

    Adaptation period:
    Bodybuilder 1.6-2.0; ARA 1.2-1.8; EA 1.6-2.0

    *Addendum: The adaptation period would be the competition season for a bodybuilder. Bodybuilders require a higher level of protein during this period due to the low levels of body fat and decrease in the other macronutrients.
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    Jan 29, 2012 3:12 AM GMT
    Snapper, mixed species, baked/broiled, fillet, avg., weight: 170 grams
    44.7 grams of protein
    (44.7 / 170 = 26% protein), 70% water, 218 calories

    Lima beans, baby, canned, low sodium, avg., weight: 174 grams
    7 grams of protein
    (7 / 174 = 4% protein), 81% water, 124 calories

    Fish / Lima Beans
    02.70 Alanine / .13*2
    02.67 Arginine / .24*2
    04.57 Aspartic acid / .38*2
    00.48 Cystine / .04*2
    06.68 Glutamic acid /.46*2
    02.14 Glycine /.14*2
    01.32 Histidine / .12*2
    02.06 Isoleucine / .23*2
    03.64 Leucine / .28*2
    04.11 Lysine / .23*2
    01.32 Methionine / .03*2
    01.75 Phenylalanine / .17*2
    01.58 Proline / .06*2
    01.82 Serine / .22*2
    01.96 Threonine / .15*2
    00.50 Tryptophan / .05*2
    01.51 Tyrosine / .11*2
    02.31 Valine / .22*2
    ===
    43.12 Total / 6.52
    (probably has a rounding error since this didn't total to 44.7)

    Source: Nutrients in Food by Elizabeth S. Hands

    # # # #

    Some conclusions from the data above.

    1. Obviously, the quantity of protein content of an exemplary bean is not as significant as the quantity of protein of an exemplary fish.

    2. Above, there are 18 amino acids as components to what we call protein
    Hm, "micro-ingredients" of food.

    Glutamic acid (glutamine?), Aspartic acid, and Lysine are the top three amino acids in the fish sample.

    Glutamic acid (glutamine?), Aspartic acid, and Leucine are the top three amino acids in the bean sample.

    Any other conclusions?
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    Jan 29, 2012 3:15 AM GMT
    EastCoastNAZ said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidI eat about 200g of protein a day and I weight 196lb.

    So far, I'm forty and I have no problems with any organs. It's important to flush the kidneys by drinking a lot of water.

    Also there are herbs that are said to be good for kidneys like watermelon seeds and I think dandelion or dandelion root is good for them as well.


    I think cranberry juice is also good for kidneys, I believe. But most cranberry juice out there is mixed with apple juice and other very-high-sugar-content juices.



    Hi EastCoast NAZ,

    I add 1 or 2 teaspoons of cranberry juice concentrate to a glass of water that already has 1 or 2 teaspoons of lemon juice concentrate. I drink this everyday.
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    Jan 29, 2012 3:22 AM GMT
    JETaylor said(NASM Certified PT)
    If you ingest X amount of protein a day, but say you miss the gym, and only Y (lesser number) is used, then the excess is also turned into fat.

    Whaaaa? This doesn't sound right to me. So you're saying that on rest days, you should significantly decrease the amount of protein you take in that day? Or it will magically just turn into fat?
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    Jan 29, 2012 3:22 AM GMT
    Another thing I heard about meat protein comes from the topic, alkaline vs. acidic. I think that camp is against meat protein.
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    Jan 29, 2012 3:25 AM GMT
    thenes said
    JETaylor said(NASM Certified PT)
    If you ingest X amount of protein a day, but say you miss the gym, and only Y (lesser number) is used, then the excess is also turned into fat.

    Whaaaa? This doesn't sound right to me. So you're saying that on rest days, you should significantly decrease the amount of protein you take in that day? Or it will magically just turn into fat?


    Thenes,

    I would think so.

    I'm thinking about articles that talk about eating protein before, during, and after workouts.

    There is protein intake specifically for the workout.

    Why take that same quantity of protein during a day when you're not taxing the muscles?
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    Jan 29, 2012 3:26 AM GMT
    JackNWNJ saidKidneys, supposedly.

    But it's bullshit. Making an organ work harder isn't bad for it.

    The concern seemed to be that damage could occur without proper hydration.

    No shit. Drink fucking water.



    Are you kidding me? Over taxing any organ is not good. Sure the human body is amazing and copes, but only so much.
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    Jan 29, 2012 3:30 AM GMT
    StephenOABC said
    thenes said
    JETaylor said(NASM Certified PT)
    If you ingest X amount of protein a day, but say you miss the gym, and only Y (lesser number) is used, then the excess is also turned into fat.

    Whaaaa? This doesn't sound right to me. So you're saying that on rest days, you should significantly decrease the amount of protein you take in that day? Or it will magically just turn into fat?


    Thenes,

    I would think so.

    I'm thinking about articles that talk about eating protein before, during, and after workouts.

    There is protein intake specifically for the workout.

    Why take that same quantity of protein during a day when you're not taxing the muscles?


    Wouldn't carbohydrate be the bigger concern?
    Protein would help to maintain muscle mass/prevent muscle breakdown for any day including off days. Where as carbs would be converted to fat if not utilized.
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    Jan 29, 2012 3:31 AM GMT
    StephenOABC said
    thenes said
    JETaylor said(NASM Certified PT)
    If you ingest X amount of protein a day, but say you miss the gym, and only Y (lesser number) is used, then the excess is also turned into fat.

    Whaaaa? This doesn't sound right to me. So you're saying that on rest days, you should significantly decrease the amount of protein you take in that day? Or it will magically just turn into fat?


    Thenes,

    I would think so.

    I'm thinking about articles that talk about eating protein before, during, and after workouts.

    There is protein intake specifically for the workout.

    Why take that same quantity of protein during a day when you're not taxing the muscles?


    Because synthesis doesn't magically happen right after a workout. It's an ongoing process. That's why after working out a muscle group it will be sore for the next day or so, because it is still repairing "the damage" from the workout. You will want to keep feeding it protein, even on rest days, so that it can do that job.
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    Jan 29, 2012 3:41 AM GMT
    Thenes,

    You're right.
    I don't know where the other guy is getting his information from, but it isn't NASM.
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    Jan 29, 2012 5:34 AM GMT
    thenes said
    JETaylor said(NASM Certified PT)
    If you ingest X amount of protein a day, but say you miss the gym, and only Y (lesser number) is used, then the excess is also turned into fat.

    Whaaaa? This doesn't sound right to me. So you're saying that on rest days, you should significantly decrease the amount of protein you take in that day? Or it will magically just turn into fat?


    Bump.

    Clearly, someone doesn't understand the cellular pump.

    Cranberry juice turns your urine acidic and helps prevent urinary tract infections by keeping bacteria from attaching so the walls of the urinary tract. Any water will "flush" stuff, through.

    Blood sugar levels control insulin which is the shuttle hormone into the cell. I.e., fat storage. It's real hard to get fat on just protein alone...very hard, in fact. You need adequate insulin levels to shuttle nutrition into cells. That's why it's important to eat fast sugars immediately post workout to both shuttle glycogen into the muscles, and to drive an insulin response to pull the protein with it, during the golden hour post workout where your uptake can be twice as much as any other time.

    40 grams of protein is nothing. You can read up on the USDA standard but 40 grams is NOTHING. I've done as much as 500 and gotten very dry, and tight, and lean. I would not recommend that long term or most folks. 200 to 280 grams of protein should be fine if you're doing resistance training. That's 5 meals of 40 grams each to 7 meals of 40 grams each. More than 40 grams per sitting is pretty much as waste unless you're pushing insulin with it, and that's for someone real advanced. You can likely do just fine on 150 grams.

    Make sure you get at least 100 grams of carbs per day, just to keep your brain up to snuff.
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    Jan 29, 2012 6:06 AM GMT
    Right....the cranberry juice acidifies the urine, and does what it does. Straight from the doctors mouth 3 weeks ago :-) GAEs to be more specific. (Gallic Acid Equivalents).

    The doctor and I talked about it when I had a full STD workup done, and....I was negative on all tests. :-)

    You just didn't dig on it far enough. (Oops.)

    Here you go:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proanthocyanidin
  • metta

    Posts: 39120

    Jan 29, 2012 6:15 AM GMT
    It does not make sense to eat more protein than your body can absorb. Be kind to your kidneys. icon_smile.gif

    I remember my friend's doctor, a nephrologist (kidney doc) mentioning that he got a lot patients that are body builders. Not only was eating too much protein a problem: Constant over pressure to the organs from lifting too much weight is harmful as well. Lifting excessive amounts of weight has nothing to do with being healthy.

    And something that I have noticed is that the ones in the gym that are lifting excessive amounts of weight are typically not the people in the best shape. A lot of the best bodies are usually concentrating on form and often times doing the reps slowly (positive & negative reps).





  • g4guy333

    Posts: 16

    Jan 29, 2012 6:35 AM GMT
    The latest studies "2011" show no harm from high protein intake.
    Unless you have an unhealthy kidneys. I take between 250 - 300 grams of protein daily for the past 2 years...no problems yet.
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    Jan 30, 2012 2:15 AM GMT
    Symptoms of Protein Deficiency

    Protein is the leading factor in physical growth as well regulation and maintenance of hair, muscles, tendons, skin and eyes. Protein deficiency is a common concern, particularly among vegetarians, dieters and body builders. If you feel that your diet is lacking in protein, it is important to know the warning signs of deficiency.

    1

    Keep an eye on your hair and nails. Signs of protein deficiency often take a long time to become apparent as the body uses protein stored in the tissues if the diet is inadequate. Splitting and/or falling hair and brittle nails are among the first symptoms.
    2

    Pay attention to your energy levels, as extreme fatigue, sleeping too much and generally feeling heavy and tired are all signs that you may need to boost your levels of protein.
    3

    Ask yourself if you are taking more measures recently to combat bouts of constipation. While there are a number of reasons that you may feel constipated, irregularity is one of the signs of protein deficiency.
    4

    Watch your muscles' growth, or lack thereof. If the body does not have a sufficient supply of protein, it cannot properly build and maintain muscle tissue. Additionally, protein is stored in the muscles and will be used by the body in case of deficiency. If your muscles appear more flabby than normal, you may need to get more protein in your diet.
    5

    Check your heart rate regularly, seeking medical attention if it falls below 60 beats per minute. While low blood pressure is one of the later signs of protein deficiency, it is an important one which can affect your health in a number of ways.
    6

    Be careful to not allow a protein deficiency to become severe, as the effects become even more drastic. In extreme cases of protein deficiency, growth may be halted, particularly in children and can cause drastic fluid retention, mental disorders and skin rashes.


    http://www.ehow.com/how_2292613_spot-signs-protein-deficiency.html


    Now I know one reason why I had a mild lust for good looking men in the weight room, porn videos, in ballet, on Colt/Buckshot magazine covers in Greenwich Village magazine stores.

    In addition to not being able to get an intimate hug a day or spoon per night, my 3 hours per night in the gym wasn't giving me the centerfold body to which I aspired.

    Why, let's say, from 1982-1992 (age 20-30), I was only eating 90 grams of protein per day on a 5'9" frame weighing 175 - 190 pounds.

    In NYC, it was very common to have:

    Breakfast: 2 scrambled eggs on a roll with cheese for breakfast

    Lunch: salad bar and single hamburger/chicken sandwich from Wendy's

    Dinner: 2 slices of pizza (one mushroom, one onions) or vegetable fried rice

    11pm snack: a walk to a Lexington Ave. or Third Ave. deli to get a Snapple and a Blondie or a cup of Gelato or worse, a pint of Ben & Jerry's

    Wake up in the morning and jog the Reservoir (1.6 miles)

    # # #

    I think gym members who do not prioritize the weight room were out of the loop on the importance of protein. "What, you slurp down 3 raw egg whites for breakfast?"

    I think "Strength is built in increments" works when a 175 lb person has pushed his protein intake from 90 grams to double that.

    Don't tell me--I think it's true:

    Is it true?

    Those who take adequate amounts of protein have better quality protein in their cum?

    The only cum content locker room or boys night out talk that came up was if you eat dates and pineapple, your cum will taste better than if you eat dairy or dairy protein products.

    Alright, going on, is the sperm/baby of the man with adequate protein healthier than the sperm/baby of the man with less than adequate protein?

    # # #

    Okay, I was slightly fat in my 30s because without the protein, I had no serious muscles and without serious muscles, I had a slower metabolism. Yea, I could play racquetball for two hours after cardio and weights for an hour, but I could have been more fit than that.

    So, the guys with good bodies didn't find my body attractive for hugging naked and spooning under the covers.

    So, when I bought a $7-$10 bottle of Biotin every two months, I probably should have used that money to increase my protein intake.

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    Jan 30, 2012 2:27 AM GMT
    StephenOABC saidHi,

    I asked a middle-aged man who lift weights, is 40 grams of protein per day too much on the internal organs.

    He told me 40 grams of protein isn't nearly enough protein per day. (I'd say he is about 6'2", 225, absolutely no sign of whatever percent of muscle loss per year after some age in the middle age phase of life.) He said, "I take 300 grams of protein per day."

    In all fairness, of the hundreds of men during the week in the weight lifting area of my gym, he is, in my estimation, in the top 1% of achievers. (So, I asked an "expert" about protein consumption per day; but, he didn't acknowledge something I used to hear all the time, that protein consumption is tough on one or more of the internal organs.)

    I look forward to your comments.


    Correction, he's probably 6'2" - 6'3" 260-280lbs. So, 300 grams of protein makes sense.

    I just got back from a laundromat where I saw a tall, beautifully built mixed martial arts 40 year old who used to play football. (He was washing mattress cover, sheets and comforters.) He told me he dropped from 295 to 255. And yea, he consumes about 250 grams of protein per day.

    (Later, I talked with a guy with an NRA t-shirt about why he wore bright orange instead of camouflage. He said wearing camouflage is just macho head-tripping as it relates to deer hunting. Deers are color blind. The bright orange keeps other hunters from shooting you.)
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4864

    Jan 30, 2012 2:45 AM GMT
    The idea that a pulse rate < 60 per minute is a problem is incorrect.

    The pulse rate is one indicator of aerobic fitness. A person in good aerobic fitness will have a lower heat rate. Some runners even have pulse rates < 40, but the lowest I was ever able to get mine was 42. It took a lot of running, including hard intervals, to get it that low.
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/moser9.htm