Ibogaine & Ayahuasca

  • Jo3x

    Posts: 29

    Feb 06, 2012 12:41 AM GMT
    Hi all RealJocks,

    has anybody worked with these two haling plants?

    How did it go?

    Jox
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    Feb 06, 2012 1:35 AM GMT
    No Ive not.. I would be willing to though.. are you thinking of mixing them? Typically a bad idea if you cant consult someone who knows about them
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    Feb 06, 2012 1:46 AM GMT
    i'll be in ayahuasca land this summer (Ecuador). prob won't take part, but portions of the program include mtg healers and attending healing sessions.

    EDIT: i know enough about enough, if u get my drift....
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    Feb 06, 2012 2:06 AM GMT
    never heard of them in this context

    I know ibogaine Hypochlorite is a treatment for Opiate addiction
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    Feb 06, 2012 2:20 AM GMT
    Your knowledge of things I've never ever heard about turns me on...
  • Jo3x

    Posts: 29

    Feb 06, 2012 2:37 AM GMT
    Hi Jocks,

    I am new to this forum, so I just wanted to see how much is known.

    My husband is suffering form Borderline Personality Disorder, Ibogaine and then Zen meditation have made all the difference, and that's how I got to know about Ibogaine.

    I will write my report on our journey.

    No I wouldn't mix them, actually we are only concentrating on Iboga right now, as microdosing.

    But in the future we will start working with Ayahuasca.

    Both are highly healing plants and will like to do retreats for the gay community, generally they are all str8, not that this is a problem, but still... I think the community deserves other then alcohol and Tina, what else am I missing, I been out of the scene since 1992...

    Jox
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    Feb 06, 2012 3:47 AM GMT
    I've done Ayahuasca (Yajé in Colombia).

    Wouldn't recommend it, though
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    Feb 06, 2012 8:38 AM GMT
    joevbanana saidI've done Ayahuasca (Yajé in Colombia).

    Wouldn't recommend it, though


    Please explain your experience with this natural drug. It is suppose to facilitate a higher state of mind for a healing and a return to instinct or as some people put it, a return to I (yo), the original self.
  • Jo3x

    Posts: 29

    Feb 07, 2012 12:32 AM GMT
    joevbanana,

    what went wrong?

    Did you have a bad trip?

    Who was the treatment provider?


    Jox
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    Feb 08, 2012 1:33 PM GMT
    Jo3x saidjoevbanana,

    what went wrong?

    Did you have a bad trip?

    Who was the treatment provider?


    Jox


    Hey Jo3x.

    Somebody sent me an email asking me for my opinion. I thought it could be useful if I posted my answer here.

    Here it goes:

    -------------------------------------


    Of course this is very subjective and it's a personal experience at the end.

    I did it with full respect and trying to observe the directions for doing it: the abstinency before the "drink", eating a light diet the week before, preparing psychologically/spiritually etc...

    The "drink/taking" ("toma" in Spanish) was directed by an indigenous "taita" (like a priest or sorcerer) from the Huitoto ethnic group.

    I had a strange and -in some parts- even a horrifying trip. It was probably the most disturbing experience of my life. I spent some days (or weeks) trying to give it a "meaning".

    After thinking it through, I came to the conclusion that this was just a very powerful 'natural' drug, that messes your brain up. People look for Yagé supossedly for "teaching" you things. The indigenous people consider the Yagé to have a soul within. Like a powerful spirit that can mess with you, but at the same time can heal you and teach you what you need to know.

    For me, it's just a drug. A very dangerous one, even (there's always people in the news who die from reacting badly to Yagé). I just think you project your fears, your ideas of life, your inner "ghosts" through this experience. For me, it's not a spirit. It's just you. You on drugs.

    I wouldn't do it again, because I don't need those kind of experiences and because I value both my physhical and psychological health too much to put it in danger.

    That's just me of course. Many people have 'wonderful' experiences and think they're not doing harm to their bodies. Quite the contrary, they say they're "healing" themselves.

    If you're gonna do it, look for someone who knows what he/she is doing. The mix you take is usually not just Yagé, but Yagé mixed with other hallucinogens (other plants), the recipe of which depending on each priest's own tradition. Some of them can be very dangerous and give you bad trips. Also, if you're gonna do it, do it respectfully. Respecting the people's traditions and not just because you think it's a cool experience or because you want to try a new drug.
  • Jo3x

    Posts: 29

    Feb 08, 2012 9:46 PM GMT
    Hi Joevbanana,

    thank you for your time to write the report.

    I see that you took it very seriously.

    Having a bad trip is "normal" for the first time users. All psychoactive substances detox the brain. In a way it takes out the "nightmares" out of your brain.

    But in the case of a very bad trip, instead of being healing, it becomes as post traumatic stress.

    Have you seen a change in your moods, dreams, relationship with people, or your partner?

    Now it can be a good time to take a Zen retreat or vipassana. Your mind is refreshed...

    Here is a place where people talk about their experiences:

    https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/

    Yet me and my husband don't do Yage, we do Ibogaine. One treatment is like years of therapy, and no risk of bad trip. We will start working with Yage, when our minds get detoxed more, for the very reason of the bad trips...

    good to hear your report
    and write to me back if I inspired you in some way
    Jox
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    Feb 08, 2012 9:52 PM GMT
    Ive seen people go on bad trips or good trips on several hallucinogens.. it is like you say.. you may project your fears and that will make the trip bad.. when i felt my trip going bad on mushrooms, I had to remember to make sure to control the trip... and that does include being around people and in situations which will enhance the good trip... Its not like you get "high" on it I think, my friend did it in Peru... it really is more a mental trip into your own psyche,. where you can see the bad stuff and the good stuff in yourself, you have to be able to manage yourself to be able to be neutral and not "freak out" at the bad stuff that can come up.. some of my friends would freak out indeed.. others stayed neutral....
  • Jo3x

    Posts: 29

    Feb 11, 2012 11:10 PM GMT
    I think bad trips are to be avoided at all cost.

    They are not good, as they make post traumatic stress dissorder. PTSD.

    As we can see Joe Banana couldn't make sense of his trip, and it didn't induce spiritual growth, on the contrary he sees it as "poison" or "just another drug".

    When the healing aspect is what is all about...

    JOx

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    Dec 27, 2012 12:54 AM GMT
    I drank ayahuasca eight times over the course of two weeks at the Refugio Altiplano near Iquitos, Peru in August 2012. It was the most extraordinary, incredible, healing experience of my life. I plan to return in 2013.

    I went to Refugio Altiplano to explore using ayahuasca as a cure for lifelong depression. Ayahuasca didn't completely cure my depression, but it did help. I got orders of magnitude more out of a single night's experience than I did in years of antidepressants or traditional talk-therapy. There were also some hyper-intelligent, interesting people at the retreat who helped in the healing. And a couple unusual (weirdos?) as well, but it was all OK. Different people come to drink aya for different reasons and it's not right for everybody. Maybe 5-10% of those at the retreat bailed out because they were not happy with what the medicine was doing for them.

    Some ayahuasca nights -- or limited aspects of ayahuasca journeys -- were horrifying, like joevbanana says. But I still regard them as important and useful, and I don't struggle too much to ascribe to them meaning. Facing one's fears is necessary to destroy them, or at least to prevent them from secretly owning you. There's an old saying, "The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek." Ayahuasca is like a mirror for the mind. Much of what you experience is a reflection of your psyche.

    However, much of the experience also feels like it originates in a helpful, external spiritual intelligence that wants to show you things. 'It' wants to help you. Under ayahuasca it was made quite clear to me that all beings are incarnations of God, and that the universe is an intelligent game of Hide and Seek. Divine intelligence plays Hide and Seek with itself. The fun is pretending that everything is something that it's not. I came back perceiving clearly that all beings -- from microorganisms to a blue whale -- are incarnations of God. They have only forgotten this as they get caught up in their various illusions and games in life. And for most of those beings, that's the fun, to pretend that they are separate from God and each other in an elaborate and sincere illusion.

    Another aspect of the medicine that was fascinating is the intense sexuality it presents you. On several nights I had endless orgasmic orgies in my head, running on-and-off for several hours. It was like the movie "300," but all gay sex, every position imaginable! icon_biggrin.gif I came away from those "wet dreams" with an unflinching belief that sexuality is the seat of power in this realm. Respect it, own it, use it! If you're not happy sexually, you're not happy. Period. Happiness in this realm is largely founded on a healthy and satisfied libido. There is no shame in any sexual desire so long as it is not harming another person.

    I bristle a little bit at the use of the term "drug" as applied to dimethyltryptamine (DMT) or ayahuasca, because the active molecule, DMT, occurs naturally in the pineal gland. It is theorised by Dr. Rick Strassman that DMT is released during birth and death, or during severe trauma such as life-threatening surgery or a car accident. Cane sugar and liquor are as or more deserving of the term "drug" than DMT, which occurs naturally in the brain.

    It is curious that the body would manufacture and release a psychedlic molecule, isn't it? DMT is the only endogenous psychedelic, or one the body makes itself. The molecule serves some purpose, and people like Dr. Strassman believe it is to enable to soul to transition to/from The Void (or whatever you want to call the place on the other side of human life). Having spent ~70 hours in a trance state, I agree with Dr. Strassman that the molecule is one that helps smooth the transition of divine consciousness into, and out of, the human body. My consciousness merged many times with what I believed was God, Brahman, the Source... whatever you want to call it, many times this supreme intelligence and I became one. I felt a profound sense of peace, awareness, and compassion for all life.

    One thing that helped me with ayahuasca was to have a fairly strong Buddhist foundation going into the experience. I felt more able to not get too wrapped up in the visions and experiences I had. I also feel this mindset of non-attachment and compassion for all beings help me reach enormous heights of personal insight. I have been vegetarian for many years and felt ready to face any aspect of my dark side the medicine wanted to show me. What I actually found was that most of what it showed me was divinely beautiful, intelligent, mathematical, loving, and deeply fascinating.

    Our lives are fairytales we dream into existence. Curiosity propelled this realm into existence. I am grateful for having being able to discover and afford the experience, and I hope my story helps others feel more able to experience the same for themselves, if they feel called to do so. Feel free to email me if you want to know more specifics -- I plan to put a testimonial video on YouTube in early 2013.

    Peace and light!
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    Dec 27, 2012 1:22 AM GMT
    P.S. Here are a couple videos on ayahuasca that I like:

    1. Alistair Appleton's testimonial (he's a gay guy, too!):
    http://vimeo.com/32460413

    2. Eye of the Needle, a documentary shot at Refugio Altiplano where I drank ayahuasca... this filmmaker left a few days before I arrived, and I think he did a brilliant job of capturing aspects of the trance state:
    http://vimeo.com/56122124
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    Mar 02, 2014 4:21 AM GMT
    Jo3x saidHi all RealJocks,

    has anybody worked with these two haling plants?

    How did it go?

    Jox


    I would also like to add that to this thread that in March 2013 I underwent a 5-day psycho-spritual treatment with Iboga (Ibogaine). At a low-dose, Iboga is similar to psilocybin mushrooms (quite pleasant, grounding, euphoric, connecting, integrating with nature).

    The real therapy happens at what providers call the 'Iboga flood dose.' The flood dose of Iboga is so intense that an expert trip-sitter must watch over you all night long to make sure you don't stop breathing and die. Iboga is easily 3-5x harder on the body than Ayahuasca. Someone died during Iboga treatment in New Zealand in 2013 as well. In the right hands it's pretty safe, but it's definitely more dangerous than Ayahuasca.

    One difference between Iboga and Ayahuasca is that Iboga contains 101 psychoactive alkaloids. This is like getting 101 new channels of information switched on it your brain. Ayahuasca has only two psychoactive molecules: Harmaline and DMT, both of which are endogenous to the human body. None of the Iboga alkaloids are endogenous -- they're all foreign molecules. Ibogaine is only 1 of the 101 alkaloids contains in Iboga, and only 20 of the Iboga alkaloids have been studied by science.

    For me to write about the full scope of the Iboga experience would take several pages and hours, but I'll briefly share the following opinions/facts:

    1. Iboga should only be provided by a qualified, expert caregiver. It is not something you should acquire and try on your own because it could kill you if used incorrectly.

    2. Iboga (or more specifically, the isolated alkaloid called Ibogaine) is primarily used for its natural addiction-interruption capabilities. Notably Ibogaine causes immediate cessation of withdrawal symptoms for heroine and opiate addicts within 24 hours and lasting 3-9 months because Ibogaine binds to the fat cells in the body where it is slowly released for months. Ibogaine is therefore a gold-standard treatment for addiction interruption, particularly for opiate/heroine addictions. For anyone suffering from chronic addictions, particularly to heroine or opiates, I whole-heartedly recommend Iboga from a qualified medical provider. Ibogaine uniquely interacts with the pleasure receptors that opiates stimulate, resetting the brain to a pre-addiction state.

    3. Anyone who gets Iboga treatment for addiction and who relapses and takes heroine again at the pre-addiction level, is likely to DIE. This is because Iboga resets the brain to a pre-addictive state. Therefore resuming the addictive drug(s) at the same dose can and does kill people.

    4. Psycho-spiritual use of Iboga is why I underwent the treatment. Iboga took me to the deepest Bardo (spiritual netherworld from Tibetan Buddhism -- read up on the Tibetan Book of the Dead). Iboga took me deeper into the Bardo than Ayahuasca. But deeper isn't necessarily better; it's just 'different.' It took me many weeks to recover my strength and mental alertness after doing Iboga because it was so hard on my body.

    5. Personally, I believe Ayahuasca is a gentler and more appropriate teacher-plant for psycho-spiritual treatments. It's also orders of magnitude safer, and at times can be quite enjoyable. Iboga was only enjoyable at a low dose. Flood doses became so intense that it felt death was imminent; I underwent a full shamanic death experience with Iboga where I believed for a time that I was dead and trapped in the void and later, a realm made of pure energy. This was a powerful experience that I have come to be grateful for, but it took me many months to recover and to see the benefits of the experience.

    Anyone who wants to know more can email me and we can Skype or FaceTime audio chat. I believe that these plants (mushrooms, Iboga root, Ayahuasca) are tremendously powerful tools when used for the right purposes, and with the correct mindset and awareness.
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    Mar 02, 2014 4:29 AM GMT
    Jo3x saidI think bad trips are to be avoided at all cost.

    They are not good, as they make post traumatic stress dissorder. PTSD.

    As we can see Joe Banana couldn't make sense of his trip, and it didn't induce spiritual growth, on the contrary he sees it as "poison" or "just another drug".

    When the healing aspect is what is all about...

    JOx



    I would humbly offer a different perspective to your first two sentences. 'Bad trips' are very often the mind's own fears and cravings surfacing and manifesting themselves in the form of archetypal characters and symbols (appearing in the form of monsters, demons, dragons, evil spirits, etc.).

    All trips are valid, and when negative energies/entities surface, do NOT run from them -- face them and embrace them. Give them your love!! Recognise that negative energies are real forces that exist in our minds and the only way to balance them is to understand them, observe them, and let them go without judgment. I've had negative entities appear many times in journeys, and when I observe them without judgment or fear, or when I send love to them, the trip has always 'turned the corner' and the negative entity eventually flees. Often, visualising the entity turning into a baby or a flower or some positive symbol can help.

    Terence McKenna, an expert on shamanic journeys using sacred plants, gave the advice that during particularly harrowing trips he has found that singing out loud is a way to move past the negative energies.

    At any rate the shadow side IS part of us, and when we go on these shamanic journeys, it's important to try to integrate the shadow and the light side because it's all part of a continuum in the grand cosmic scheme of things. Can't have white without black. Can't have up without down. Can't have positive without negative.