The cost of making the "Great Male Legs" book

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 09, 2012 4:21 AM GMT
    I want to address this question again because someone asked tonight that since I may financially profit from the book, they should get paid for submitting pictures. So I thought I'd break this all down for everyone to see.
    icon_wink.gif

    I started this project not to make a profit, but to make a good book. I know a lot of people would be interested in the book, and I intend to do a good job. So here is the cost breakdown:

    The books will be printed on demand for around $35 each. That's right, $35. Full color, hardcover. Would you spend $35 for a hardcover tabletop book on Great Male Legs? Probably not. If I can order maybe 10 or 20 at a time, I could bring that down to maybe $29. That is MY COST. So if I sold it for $30, what would my profit be? $1 per book.

    Some have asked to get a free book once it's done. I'd love to do that if financially possible, but let's add that up. If I gave away 100 books (one per person in the book), that would put me in the hole over $3000. Knowing that I will probably only sell maybe 100-200 in a year, if that, it would take me over 15 YEARS to cover the free books I gave out. By then people won't even be buying physical books anymore. I would be in a financial hole.

    My time: On average I send two to three emails per person to get pictures, and about 20 minutes per person formatting the pictures and getting them in the book well. Many times, most of the time, the pictures are not good enough quality for a printed book. So even though I love the legs of the guy, I have to ask to retake them, etc. etc. if possible.

    When making a book, or working on any project that involves getting input from many sources, you can't always financially compensate everyone. It would be different if it were a book with only one or two people contributing. So the best I could offer is a link to a website or business in the back of the book under a Contributor's section, and the fact that your legs made it into the book with others.

    This is just the reality. I'm not Harper Collins or some large publisher that can take a risk and print millions of books. And the likelihood is no publisher would print a million copies of this book. They are already backing away from printing physical books in general.

    So again, I approached this project with the idea of making a good book that people could be proud of. If you feel that you should be compensated for submitting your pictures, don't submit them. I can only ask and hope that you will like to be a part of it to enjoy the finished product and something really cool.

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    http://www.wrestlemen.com/legs
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 09, 2012 4:28 AM GMT
    So you are going to make a book of pictures that people can easily find on the intertubez...............why?
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    Feb 09, 2012 4:33 AM GMT
    Claystation saidSo you are going to make a book of pictures that people can easily find on the intertubez...............why?


    I take it you have no tabletop photo books on your coffee table.
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    Feb 09, 2012 4:35 AM GMT
    wrestlervic said

    I take it you have no tabletop photo books on your coffee table.


    What would I need table top photo books for? If my house was some kind of doctors office where people have to wait on me for some absurd reason then yeah maybe but its not like that.
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    Feb 09, 2012 6:25 AM GMT
    I got a similar spiel from McGraw-Hill about a book for which I wrote one of twelve chapters. They wouldn't send me a copy, but they gave me a coupon good for 1/12 off the cover price. Which was like $250, so I passed on it. (But I'm sure in that case, most of the cost was profit.)
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    Feb 09, 2012 12:20 PM GMT
    Claystation said
    wrestlervic said

    I take it you have no tabletop photo books on your coffee table.


    What would I need table top photo books for? If my house was some kind of doctors office where people have to wait on me for some absurd reason then yeah maybe but its not like that.


    I would imagine that you don't have to buy the book if you don't want it.



  • calibro

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    Feb 09, 2012 12:40 PM GMT
    I understand your deal, but as someone who works in publishing and is a writer, it's still considered unprofessional not to offer someone a copy gratis if they contributed to it, especially if they are not getting paid for it. Furthermore, that's something you have to spell out in the soliciting contract, and you usually make a point to notify all parties before requesting material from them.
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    Feb 09, 2012 3:59 PM GMT
    calibro saidI understand your deal, but as someone who works in publishing and is a writer, it's still considered unprofessional not to offer someone a copy gratis if they contributed to it, especially if they are not getting paid for it. Furthermore, that's something you have to spell out in the soliciting contract, and you usually make a point to notify all parties before requesting material from them.


    It is spelled out on the picture submission page. So before calling me unprofessional, you should probably have read it. icon_wink.gif
  • calibro

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    Feb 10, 2012 1:48 AM GMT
    wrestlervic said
    calibro saidI understand your deal, but as someone who works in publishing and is a writer, it's still considered unprofessional not to offer someone a copy gratis if they contributed to it, especially if they are not getting paid for it. Furthermore, that's something you have to spell out in the soliciting contract, and you usually make a point to notify all parties before requesting material from them.


    It is spelled out on the picture submission page. So before calling me unprofessional, you should probably have read it. icon_wink.gif


    really? because on this thread you clearly don't say it in the actual post http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2156114/. putting the fine print so to speak in a link that isn't the add is considered highly unprofessional. it's akin to contests that don't mention a submission fee until you're at the submission page.

    and because you seem to want to be taken seriously, here's my uncensored, professional opinion as an editor. not only is the idea of this book a joke, but also how you seem to validate your need not to offer anything in return to your contributors. you're not even taking the photos. i've never heard of a coffee book assembled of other people's work and still claiming ownership of the book. whether you're making a dollar or six of them, you're still profiting. and because you're self-publishing, unprofessional would be too elevated of a word because that would imply professionalism. you're scamming people into giving you free work that they did so you can profit.
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    Feb 10, 2012 1:52 AM GMT
    calibro said
    wrestlervic said
    calibro saidI understand your deal, but as someone who works in publishing and is a writer, it's still considered unprofessional not to offer someone a copy gratis if they contributed to it, especially if they are not getting paid for it. Furthermore, that's something you have to spell out in the soliciting contract, and you usually make a point to notify all parties before requesting material from them.


    It is spelled out on the picture submission page. So before calling me unprofessional, you should probably have read it. icon_wink.gif


    really? because on this thread you clearly don't say it in the actual post http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2156114/. putting the fine print so to speak in a link that isn't the add is considered highly unprofessional. it's akin to contests that don't mention a submission fee until you're at the submission page.

    and because you seem to want to be taken seriously, here's my uncensored, professional opinion as an editor. not only is the idea of this book a joke, but also how you seem to validate your need not to offer anything in return to your contributors. you're not even taking the photos. i've never heard of a coffee book assembled of other people's work and still claiming ownership of the book. whether you're making a dollar or six of them, you're still profiting. and because you're self-publishing, unprofessional would be too elevated of a word because that would imply professionalism. you're scamming people into giving you free work that they did so you can profit.


    Calibro win
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    Feb 10, 2012 1:55 AM GMT
    I'm no book expert, but you don't own the rights to those pictures, so to publish a book with pictures you don't own or have taken yourself, I think is a no-no for a lawsuit...or basically paying everyone in those pictures your profits from the book
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    Feb 10, 2012 2:00 AM GMT
    xander531 saidI'm no book expert, but you don't own the rights to those pictures, so to publish a book with pictures you don't own or have taken yourself, I think is a no-no for a lawsuit...or basically paying everyone in those pictures your profits from the book


    Yea also part of being an entrepeneur is taking risk. What risk is the OP taking here to deserve any profits? All he did was come up with an idea of putting together a book of self taken pictures and sell it.

    Agreed he should give something to the submitters. Fair is only fair, he doesnt really deserve to make a profit off of other's work.
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    Feb 10, 2012 2:31 AM GMT
    Wow, you two guys are VERY incorrect in your accessment of this project. The guys in the book have willfully contributed their pictures WITH releases allowing their pictures to be used for the book without compensation, because they understand the project. They have included the statement on the submission site with their photos. This is the proper procedure. They own the rights to their photos, they're just allowing them to be included, and I'm very thankful they contributed. No one is being scammed here.
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    Feb 10, 2012 2:34 AM GMT
    wrestlervic saidWow, you two guys are VERY incorrect in your accessment of this project. The guys in the book have willfully contributed their pictures WITH releases allowing their pictures to be used for the book without compensation, because they understand the project. They have included the statement on the submission site with their photos. This is the proper procedure. They own the rights to their photos, they're just allowing them to be included, and I'm very thankful they contributed. No one is being scammed here.

    Calibro, everyone here has been made aware that you live in a mansion and are wealthy because of your parents. You only come on here to be a prick and be spiteful of other's work. I, and probably many others could care less about you and the things that you say. You're really not a very nice person. I think you should more time bettering yourself than shooting down others.


    Hey man Im not saying you are scamming people, Im just saying you:

    A) Arent taking on any entrepreneurial risk
    B) Deserve no profits from it, whether it was a dollar or a cent
    C) If you had a spine you would do the right thing and donate the damn profits to a not-for-profit as you didnt do jack shit but say "Send me photos and I will charge people and always make sure to make a profit"

    You admit that you are ordering books one at a time, your print on demand model, and while it is great you have no reason to be bitching about not contributing to people. Take risk and I will respect your opinion.
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    Feb 10, 2012 2:49 AM GMT
    "You don't deserve a penny...and you didn't do jack shit..."

    I'd like you tell anyone who's ever spent the time putting together a book, publicizing it, paying for press releases, sending out emails, working with tons of contributors, asking their opinions and making sure they are happy, reformatting, compiling, cropping, spacing, testing, paying for proofs, and all the hard labor and dealing with negative people like you.......

    ...that they don't deserve a cent and that they "didn't do jack shit."

  • Ritournelle

    Posts: 134

    Feb 10, 2012 3:00 AM GMT
    Claystation said
    wrestlervic said

    I take it you have no tabletop photo books on your coffee table.


    What would I need table top photo books for? If my house was some kind of doctors office where people have to wait on me for some absurd reason then yeah maybe but its not like that.


    That's somewhat barbaric
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    Feb 10, 2012 3:03 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidJust curious, are you at least giving credits for who took the photos?


    Absolutely. Most people are taking their own photos and I put their first name, state, country next to them. I also allow a link in the back of the book under contributors to their business or website. For instance, if you do artwork and want people to know about it, I can put a link and name to your website/email in the back. That is what I came up with to help compensate what I cannot do myself, giving free advertising.
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    Feb 10, 2012 3:13 AM GMT
    calibro said
    wrestlervic said
    calibro saidI understand your deal, but as someone who works in publishing and is a writer, it's still considered unprofessional not to offer someone a copy gratis if they contributed to it, especially if they are not getting paid for it. Furthermore, that's something you have to spell out in the soliciting contract, and you usually make a point to notify all parties before requesting material from them.


    It is spelled out on the picture submission page. So before calling me unprofessional, you should probably have read it. icon_wink.gif


    really? because on this thread you clearly don't say it in the actual post http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2156114/. putting the fine print so to speak in a link that isn't the add is considered highly unprofessional. it's akin to contests that don't mention a submission fee until you're at the submission page.

    and because you seem to want to be taken seriously, here's my uncensored, professional opinion as an editor. not only is the idea of this book a joke, but also how you seem to validate your need not to offer anything in return to your contributors. you're not even taking the photos. i've never heard of a coffee book assembled of other people's work and still claiming ownership of the book. whether you're making a dollar or six of them, you're still profiting. and because you're self-publishing, unprofessional would be too elevated of a word because that would imply professionalism. you're scamming people into giving you free work that they did so you can profit.

    This book has been in the works for like forever. And even I, who was not interested in the least in his book, could see he was asking for guys to GIVE him pictures of their legs for inclusion in the book. There was never any hint in any of the threads asking for pics that there would be compensation for using the pictures. I guess their reward was being able to point to the picture in the book and say "those are my legs." If that was enough, then they shouldnt have submitted their pics.
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    Feb 10, 2012 3:20 AM GMT
    I can honestly say that there are more people who have been happy to share their pictures for the book than nay-Sayers. Guys like 19c79 and more were more than nice about it, and I am very grateful.

    Also, I am allowing contributors to have links to their business/personal websites in back of the book under Contributors as a way of some compensation. I thought about what I could do to help since I can't afford physical payment. So make sure you all take advantage of that.


    19c79spread.jpg
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    Feb 10, 2012 3:21 AM GMT
    This is just me but wouldn't it make more sense to just make an e-book? Save a few trees at least. Or just set up a webpage to be simple photo book. Then people can get their precious leg fix on the go. I don't get the whole random leg book sitting on the coffee table thing.

    Edit: No wait nevermind I get the book angle, someones makin a cool $1 profit. But you could save yourself $29 bucks per book if its accessible on a website, but wait, then you wouldn't get that dollar........scandalousicon_mad.gif

    @JackNWNJ who said:

    "I would imagine that you don't have to buy the book if you don't want it."

    I think I already implied that I didn't need a book like that (or any book really) on my coffee table when I said I wouldn't have people waiting on me for some absurd amount of time that they might feel the need to have a leg book handy.

    Imagine that. (<--------there is some pun in there I am sure of it)

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    Feb 10, 2012 3:24 AM GMT
    Yes, I will make a cheaper ebook available. This book is also more than just contributed pictures. I am researching and including fun facts and archival public domain images of some the greatest male legs in history.
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    Feb 10, 2012 3:36 AM GMT
    wrestlervic saidYes, I will make a cheaper ebook available. This book is also more than just contributed pictures. I am researching and including fun facts and archival public domain images of some the greatest male legs in history.


    lol for your sake after this thread I hope you only sell them for a buck, otherwise, read Calibro's post again.
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    Feb 10, 2012 3:39 AM GMT
    wrestlervic saidYes, I will make a cheaper ebook available. This book is also more than just contributed pictures. I am researching and including fun facts and archival public domain images of some the greatest male legs in history.


    Cheaper?
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    Feb 10, 2012 3:50 AM GMT
    YAWN icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Feb 10, 2012 3:54 AM GMT
    Legs never did it for me. You should make a book about great asses. icon_eek.gif