Maybe this is why some guys living in NY/LA/SF are still in the closet

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 11, 2012 6:56 PM GMT
    The author of this article raises a valid point IMO.

    http://thoughtcatalog.com/2011/why-gay-men-stay-in-the-closet/


    "For someone who’s in the closet, holding another guy’s hand and picking out furniture at Crate & Barrel is a far more intimate act than anal sex. Can they do that? Can the dude in fashion PR in NYC imagine himself doing that? No. That’s why he’s not out."
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    Feb 11, 2012 8:55 PM GMT
    First of all, let's be honest. If you were in the closet, the last person you would want knowing you were gay is a GAY GUY. Literally 88.78% of the gay people I grew up with, including me, were outed by gay guys.

    Anyway, regarding the article, I don't think the sole reason is fear of intimacy. I've lived in NYC for over 2 years and I've met quite a few guys who are/were still in the closet. My best gay friend was still in the closet until 2 months ago, even though we've been visiting ze gay barz every other week for the past year. What I've noticed is that although these guys have come to terms with their sexuality, they have trouble getting rid of the foundations of a straight life they've established. You might come here fully wanting to start fresh and be out, but for fear of rejection or moving too fast, you decide to play it straight first and wait til later. Sometimes you already know people who've moved to the city before you, so starting from scratch isn't an option. Either way, you're in a hole that you now have to struggle to get out of. That was my friend's experience. It had nothing to do with a fear of intimacy.

    Before I moved here, I was already out, so this wasn't an issue for me. Hell no would I have wanted to get back in the closet only to slowly creep out. Sounds so pointless when you think of it that way, but it's the reality for many who just aren't ready. Everyone comes to terms in the their own time.
  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Feb 11, 2012 10:54 PM GMT
    weirdfishesarpeggi saidThe author of this article raises a valid point IMO.

    http://thoughtcatalog.com/2011/why-gay-men-stay-in-the-closet/


    "For someone who’s in the closet, holding another guy’s hand and picking out furniture at Crate & Barrel is a far more intimate act than anal sex. Can they do that? Can the dude in fashion PR in NYC imagine himself doing that? No. That’s why he’s not out."


    I don't think that's why a lot of guys are in the closet at all. Imo it's mostly about what 'gay culture' is vs just regular people and society is not setup to handle gay people outside of it so when you raise people who aren't part of that mold they are going to be out of place and have issues with both.

    Whenever I've ever been to a gay orientated area of a city or clubs/center in college I've never felt part of it, more like an observer. I feel happy for other people if they are able to fit in and be themselves and it's great for them but despite how I've tried it just doesn't feel like me so I can understand how gay guys in a gay accepting place can still feel alienated/isolated.

    It's also about how people feel internally not just what is happening in the environment around them.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 11, 2012 11:09 PM GMT
    I don't know what neighborhood of Manhattan the author lives in but
    my experience of living there for 32 years is the exact opposite.
    The gay men of New York are certainly not in the closet and if anything
    are way out of the closet. In New York most people dont't really care about your sexuality and everyone has gay people living on their floor in their building,
    working with them at the office and working out with them at the gym.
    I find gay men in the city are much more open about their fashion sense,
    showing off their bodies and if they're feminine, that is not hidden either.
    I have gay friends in Manhattan who are doctors, lawyers and bankers who are
    very much out of the closet. Certainly cities like New York, LA and San Francisco are much more open and gay friendly than the suburbs where I do think a lot of men ARE still in the closet. Just one New Yorkers opinion.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 11, 2012 11:27 PM GMT
    weirdfishesarpeggi said


    "For someone who’s in the closet, holding another guy’s hand and picking out furniture at Crate & Barrel is a far more intimate act than anal sex."


    I don't see why they're different, you get ass raped at C&B when the bill total comes up anyway.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 11, 2012 11:40 PM GMT
    That blog makes my day somedays icon_razz.gif

    I agree with the quote, though. A gay man could deny that he's gay to himself even after he leaves the house of the man who he just bottomed for all night. Yet, publicly expressing affection could seem so off limits because it's not sex - it's a relationship with a man, in public. There are plenty of out gay men that don't even do this for many reasons, some understandable and some not.
  • Art2D2x

    Posts: 148

    Feb 12, 2012 12:32 AM GMT
    That's a pretty huge generalization. I know a lot of guys who are out of the closet, working in entertainment/fashion pr/(insert obvious gay career) and still have issue with the intimacy in question. Making that type of connection is a serious thing to think about, especially if you're heading towards settling-ville. It is most certainly not the reason many gay men are still in the closet.

    It's even harder to visualize in the cities mentioned. I went to school in Santa Barbara and the closet is pretty shut, unless you're already nesting with a significant other. It's a reason why it they called S.B. the town for the newlywed and the nearly dead.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 12, 2012 12:38 AM GMT
    There's a difference between denial and intimacy issues. I've had several talks with men who have sex with men but date women and simply believe that just because they're sexually attracted to men doesn't mean they're gay.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Feb 12, 2012 7:50 AM GMT
    i think the author is 25 and has no background in psychology and performativity of gender and is basically speaking out of his ass.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 12, 2012 9:00 AM GMT
    I do find the article has some valid points.

    Take me for instant.

    I do get attracted to girls but as a co worker pointed out..."You just want to date them because they are 'safe'. Its easy to give a girl the attention that they want because of all the chick flicks they watch. But clearly your hearts desire is to crave intimacy with a man,and if you are not giving that kind of intimacy to a woman...You might as well be celibate. "

    She's right because it would be too easy and not to mention looks more desperate if I'm chasing tits and ass.

    I do want the emotional intimacy with a MAN because sex alone is NOT a relationship...

    I'm not exactly in the closet either, but other than my grandmother(and one cousin), I am not out with the rest of family.That part needs to be on hold until I am more secured with settling in as well as my career path in general.

    And lookie what business am I in, icon_rolleyes.gif

    I can point out that there a lot of straight men who do work in this field and are secured in their sexual preference because as far as they think, they would like to cozy up with the female models....another eye roll please....icon_rolleyes.gif



  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 12, 2012 9:11 AM GMT
    calibro saidi think the author is 25 and has no background in psychology and performativity of gender and is basically speaking out of his ass.


    you would know.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Feb 12, 2012 9:33 AM GMT
    Lostboy said
    calibro saidi think the author is 25 and has no background in psychology and performativity of gender and is basically speaking out of his ass.


    you would know.


    oh it's you again. if it makes it any easier i can just message you with the link to every thread i post in. i'm sure there are tons of posts of mine that could use bold text. let me know.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 12, 2012 9:39 AM GMT
    calibro said
    Lostboy said
    calibro saidi think the author is 25 and has no background in psychology and performativity of gender and is basically speaking out of his ass.


    you would know.


    oh it's you again. if it makes it any easier i can just message you with the link to every thread i post in. i'm sure there are tons of posts of mine that could use bold text. let me know.


    Just put James on ignore.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 25, 2012 12:47 PM GMT
    Ariodante said
    weirdfishesarpeggi said
    "For someone who’s in the closet, holding another guy’s hand and picking out furniture at Crate & Barrel is a far more intimate act than anal sex."


    I don't see why they're different, you get ass raped at C&B when the bill total comes up anyway.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
    I actually picked my current living room/dining room set with my ex at C&B. The thought of doing something like that several years earlier was inconceivable. That night when we came home, lying in bed, I asked if we were that obviously gay. He said, Yeah, we definitely were. And then laughed.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 25, 2012 1:01 PM GMT
    weirdfishesarpeggi saidThe author of this article raises a valid point IMO.

    http://thoughtcatalog.com/2011/why-gay-men-stay-in-the-closet/


    "For someone who’s in the closet, holding another guy’s hand and picking out furniture at Crate & Barrel is a far more intimate act than anal sex. Can they do that? Can the dude in fashion PR in NYC imagine himself doing that? No. That’s why he’s not out."


    Why stop there? Hugging is more intimate than anal sex too.

    So obviously a blatant copy of male/female sex roles, I can't understand why this fetish is so pervasive.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 25, 2012 1:08 PM GMT
    Either you're an intimate person, or you're not. No need to drape it around with an excuse like your sexuality is to blame or to thank.
    I can't speak on what guys in the closet go through, cause I wasn't in the closet for more than 9 months before coming out to my middle school.
    But if a guy has his entire life, up to his coming out, built around his straight friends, business relationships and family expectations it's not up to me or anyone else to make them feel shittier for being in the shittiest of situations already.
    I don't really care if a man in still in the closet. I probably won't date him, unless his awesome as hell and we click, but I'm not about to guilt him for being stuck on cocksucker island.
    Not everyone has an easy going gay lifestyle. Before you go outing someone or judging them for not coming out; think of this. "How big of an asshole would a guy have to be to out me when I'm at the most lonely and difficult period of my life?"
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 25, 2012 1:23 PM GMT
    Men are such pussies sometimes but it's not surprising since even women have a hard time getting their partners to breathe the word 'relationship' or 'intimacy'. It is not a uniquely gay issue.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 25, 2012 1:24 PM GMT
    Maybe this is why some guys living in NY/LA/SF are still in the closet

    Sounds like a lot of opinionated guesswork to me, not an actual study. Which can be OK, half the posts here, including my own, are merely our opinions.

    But the author does present these things are though they are proven fact, which they are not. To find the real answers, closeted guys need to be interviewed. A challenging task, since they are, by definition, not always recognizable or willing to identify themselves for such a purpose.

    But I do partly agree with the quote the OP provides from the article, even though it does seem contradictory:

    "For someone who’s in the closet, holding another guy’s hand and picking out furniture at Crate & Barrel is a far more intimate act than anal sex. Can they do that? Can the dude in fashion PR in NYC imagine himself doing that? No. That’s why he’s not out."

    I am not in the closet, totally out, yet I do find shopping with my husband a wonderfully intimate, bonding act (at least when I'm in the mood to shop, which isn't that often). But then I just like to do all kinds of things with him, to experience, to share, to just have him with me, my sidekick & buddy.

    So that when he's not with me I feel his absence rather profoundly. And I only shop without him when I'm sneaking off to buy surprises for him, almost never for myself unless our schedules demand it.

    But I'm confused by: "For someone who’s in the closet, holding another guy’s hand and picking out furniture at Crate & Barrel is a far more intimate act than anal sex. Can they do that? ...No. That’s why he’s not out."

    Are they shopping or not? One second he says closeted guys go shopping together, the next he says they can't. Did I misread that?

    And BTW, I've dated 2 different guys who were closeted. And that's I where learned how to value just doing ordinary "guy" things together, palling around, nothing overtly gay or sexual in public, just being best buddies.

    And so I enjoyed bumming around in a pick-up truck with him, or doing yard work together, or repairing his car for him, and so forth, because I was spending time WITH each of them, their mere company making me glow. Plus their being closeted meant I had them all to myself, our little shared secret they knew I would never reveal to the unauthorized, a trust they placed in me that I never betrayed. At times I felt constrained by their closeted status, but it also had a few advantages for me, too.
  • Trepeat

    Posts: 546

    Feb 25, 2012 4:55 PM GMT
    I remember going out to shop for furniture with my about-to-be room mate (straight) a few years back, who I`d already been madly in like with for several years prior. It was most definitely one of those most intimate experiences of my life, despite the fact that there wasn`t anything sexual or romantic about it. It was just us, being out together in public, having fun and celebrating our commitment to be a big partin each others` lives.

    Similarly, I remember my first adult sleep over with a guy. Despite the popping of my butt cherry and falling asleep in his arms, when I felt most intimate was when we went out for coffee the next morning, both our hair still wet from our shower together, and being exposed as two men who`d just fucked to bunch of strangers -should they study closely enough- in some little public venue. Gay intimacy and people`s perceptions of what it is are weird.