Looking forward to the day when...

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 11, 2012 10:17 PM GMT
    The republican party has overwhelmingly and finally dispensed with any type of anti-gay stances in the same way the British Conservative party has so that liberals on here or anywhere can't keep playing the "self-hater" card.
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    Feb 11, 2012 10:21 PM GMT
    Well, the Republican Party can't be compared to the UK or Canadian Conservative Party, per Socal. They are too socialist, apparently.

    You need more than two Parties, so the extremes on both sides have a Party to go to. (that was a pun, haha) icon_wink.gif

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    Feb 11, 2012 10:22 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidThe republican party has overwhelmingly and finally dispensed with any type of anti-gay stances in the same way the British Conservative party has so that liberals on here or anywhere can't keep playing the "self-hater" card.
    Your wait will be a long one, IF you even see that in your lifetime..

    They (the republican party) are now diving off the cliff and jumping in with the white nationalist! Yup.. the self destruction will be all theirs to watch.
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    Feb 11, 2012 10:31 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidThe republican party has overwhelmingly and finally dispensed with any type of anti-gay stances in the same way the British Conservative party has so that liberals on here or anywhere can't keep playing the "self-hater" card.

    Mock - just to make an increasingly rare appearance in this folder - The CPAC is getting publicity obviously because of the event, and there is a traditional marriage constituency, some, but not all of whom, are anti-gay. That does not take away from the fact that there are many are socially moderate and fiscally conservatives who are not comfortable in the Democratic Party because of its current economic positions.

    You don't have to be defensive about your position. As much as many of us disagree with some of the positions on the right, we are equally opposed to the economic policies on the left.

    I do not believe you need to tolerate anyone who uses the "self-hating" or "self-loathing" terms. It is a fairly small minority of the liberals on this site, but I think they drag down the discussion with their continual trash talking. I do think anyone who participates in any of "those threads" or maintains any discussion with those who toss out that label, are enabling that. I will go even further to state that participating in such discussion demonstrates a defensive lack of self-respect.
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    Feb 11, 2012 10:53 PM GMT
    Socal said, "You don't have to be defensive about your position."


    He isn't.
    You however, are, in the rest of your post.

    "As much as many of us disagree with some of the positions on the right, we are equally opposed to the economic policies on the left."

    Hmmm....all you talk about is the economic policies on the left, so your disagreeing is hardly equally opposed.
    Mock is often the only Conservative that speaks up against 'those positions on the right' that you obliquely refer to.

    -Doug



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    Feb 11, 2012 11:00 PM GMT
    meninlove said Socal said, "You don't have to be defensive about your position."

    He isn't.
    You however, are, in the rest of your post.

    Bullshit, Doug. If you think refusing to associate with the bad apples is being defensive, you don't know me at all.
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    Feb 11, 2012 11:03 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    Mock is often the only Conservative that speaks up against 'those positions on the right' that you obliquely refer to.





    That I agree with and give him props for it.
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    Feb 11, 2012 11:41 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    meninlove said Socal said, "You don't have to be defensive about your position."

    He isn't.
    You however, are, in the rest of your post.

    Bullshit, Doug. If you think refusing to associate with the bad apples is being defensive, you don't know me at all.



    OK, the words are the words of English but the sense is no sense. I was VERY specific in what I meant about you being defensive, but you did not quote that part. So I will,

    You said,
    "As much as many of us disagree with some of the positions on the right, we are equally opposed to the economic policies on the left."

    Which is defending the rather enormous vacant area when it comes to pointing out HOW you 'disagree with some of the positions on the right'. You only point out the Left's deficiencies. If you were in fact equally opposed we'd be reading critiques of both sides from you.

    As for this,
    " I will go even further to state that participating in such discussion demonstrates a defensive lack of self-respect.."

    That's a not-so-clever attempt at manipulation. If Mock sees someone saying something rotten about conservatives and wants to reply, it does NOT mean he is demonstrating a defensive lack of self-respect.

    Yeesh.


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    Feb 11, 2012 11:51 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    socalfitness said
    meninlove said Socal said, "You don't have to be defensive about your position."

    He isn't.
    You however, are, in the rest of your post.

    Bullshit, Doug. If you think refusing to associate with the bad apples is being defensive, you don't know me at all.



    OK, the words are the words of English but the sense is no sense. I was VERY specific in what I meant about you being defensive, but you did not quote that part. So I will,

    You said,
    "As much as many of us disagree with some of the positions on the right, we are equally opposed to the economic policies on the left."

    Which is defending the rather enormous vacant area when it comes to pointing out HOW you 'disagree with some of the positions on the right'. You only point out the Left's deficiencies. If you were in fact equally opposed we'd be reading critiques of both sides from you.

    As for this,
    " I will go even further to state that participating in such discussion demonstrates a defensive lack of self-respect.."

    That's a not-so-clever attempt at manipulation. If Mock sees someone saying something rotten about conservatives and wants to reply, it does NOT mean he is demonstrating a defensive lack of self-respect.

    Yeesh.

    I'll make this very simple for you. I have stated many times that I do not agree with the traditional marriage positions on the right and with the pledge that the Republican nominees have signed. Despite that though, I still support their candidacy because the economic and foreign affairs position of the Administration need to be curtailed, IMO, and I would oppose any anti-gay measures in a Republican Administration. I have been very clear on that.

    I do not need to weigh in on related discussions that ensue whenever anyone says anything on the marriage issue.

    As far as demonstrating a lack of self-respect, my opinion is simple. If someone starts a thread with the following "All you self-hating..." then I believe any dialog with them enables them and indicates a lack of self-respect. That happens to be my opinion.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 12, 2012 12:05 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    meninlove said
    socalfitness said
    meninlove said Socal said, "You don't have to be defensive about your position."

    He isn't.
    You however, are, in the rest of your post.

    Bullshit, Doug. If you think refusing to associate with the bad apples is being defensive, you don't know me at all.



    OK, the words are the words of English but the sense is no sense. I was VERY specific in what I meant about you being defensive, but you did not quote that part. So I will,

    You said,
    "As much as many of us disagree with some of the positions on the right, we are equally opposed to the economic policies on the left."

    Which is defending the rather enormous vacant area when it comes to pointing out HOW you 'disagree with some of the positions on the right'. You only point out the Left's deficiencies. If you were in fact equally opposed we'd be reading critiques of both sides from you.

    As for this,
    " I will go even further to state that participating in such discussion demonstrates a defensive lack of self-respect.."

    That's a not-so-clever attempt at manipulation. If Mock sees someone saying something rotten about conservatives and wants to reply, it does NOT mean he is demonstrating a defensive lack of self-respect.

    Yeesh.

    I'll make this very simple for you. I have stated many times that I do not agree with the traditional marriage positions on the right and with the pledge that the Republican nominees have signed. Despite that though, I still support their candidacy because the economic and foreign affairs position of the Administration need to be curtailed, IMO, and I would oppose any anti-gay measures in a Republican Administration. I have been very clear on that.

    I do not need to weigh in on related discussions that ensue whenever anyone says anything on the marriage issue.

    As far as demonstrating a lack of self-respect, my opinion is simple. If someone starts a thread with the following "All you self-hating..." then I believe any dialog with them enables them and indicates a lack of self-respect. That happens to be my opinion.


    Yeah... The administration creating more net jobs in three years than Bush did in eight MUST be stopped. And ending two wars that have driven up the deficit to unprecedented heights, and which the American people only supported because they were lied to by the previous administration, as well as killing Osama bin Laden and Qaddafi. Yes. That's awful.

    And what will Mittens do? Further enrich the already obscenely rich and...?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 12, 2012 12:51 PM GMT
    Mock is not the only conservative here who feels this way concerning the GOP's inconsistency (as championing individual liberties) with handling LGBT issues.

    We could do well in these united states (lower case intentional) with more than two parties. But over the years, the two parties have entrenched themselves in the many states electoral laws so as to make it all but impossible for third and fourth parties to raise a candidate who would be anything more than a spoiler vote (see also: Ralph Nader/Ross Perot/Bull Moose)
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Feb 12, 2012 3:09 PM GMT
    I cannot imagine that day approaching anywhere in the near-future. If you compare the GOP of the 60s to the GOP of today—it's hard to believe that the anti-gay rhetoric will be purged from party's platform. Republicans have latched on to social issues, and they don't appear to be letting go.

    But I never used the term self-hating to describe gays who vote for Republicans who support anti-gay measures.
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    Feb 12, 2012 3:29 PM GMT
    creature said
    But I never used the term self-hating to describe gays who vote for Republicans who support anti-gay measures.
    True.. I have other descriptors for them.icon_wink.gif
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    Feb 12, 2012 6:02 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    mocktwinkie saidThe republican party has overwhelmingly and finally dispensed with any type of anti-gay stances in the same way the British Conservative party has so that liberals on here or anywhere can't keep playing the "self-hater" card.

    Mock - just to make an increasingly rare appearance in this folder - The CPAC is getting publicity obviously because of the event, and there is a traditional marriage constituency, some, but not all of whom, are anti-gay. That does not take away from the fact that there are many are socially moderate and fiscally conservatives who are not comfortable in the Democratic Party because of its current economic positions.

    You don't have to be defensive about your position. As much as many of us disagree with some of the positions on the right, we are equally opposed to the economic policies on the left.

    I do not believe you need to tolerate anyone who uses the "self-hating" or "self-loathing" terms. It is a fairly small minority of the liberals on this site, but I think they drag down the discussion with their continual trash talking. I do think anyone who participates in any of "those threads" or maintains any discussion with those who toss out that label, are enabling that. I will go even further to state that participating in such discussion demonstrates a defensive lack of self-respect.


    Oh I completely understand and am aware that a great deal of conservatives and "republicans" have no problem whatsoever with gays and gay rights. What I'm saying is that I'm looking forward to the day when that voting block within the republican party is dead!
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    Feb 12, 2012 6:03 PM GMT
    AlphaTrigger saidMock is not the only conservative here who feels this way concerning the GOP's inconsistency (as championing individual liberties) with handling LGBT issues.

    We could do well in these united states (lower case intentional) with more than two parties. But over the years, the two parties have entrenched themselves in the many states electoral laws so as to make it all but impossible for third and fourth parties to raise a candidate who would be anything more than a spoiler vote (see also: Ralph Nader/Ross Perot/Bull Moose)


    Yep! It's such a ridiculous inconsistency. Freedom and liberty -- except when it comes to gays. lol
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    Feb 12, 2012 6:24 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidOh I completely understand and am aware that a great deal of conservatives and "republicans" have no problem whatsoever with gays and gay rights. What I'm saying is that I'm looking forward to the day when that voting block within the republican party is dead!

    I understand your position. For me, the economy, foreign relations, and gay rights are all important. It's just that dealing with the economy and foreign relations are especially urgent at this point in time. There is often discussion of the important versus the urgent.

    But regardless of our individual positions, which can vary, as indicated by our preferences among the Republican candidates, one point I emphasize is the need to not tolerate the name calling, "self-hating", or "self-loathing". I think any dialog with such people, including supporting their threads, enables them, gives them the attention they crave, and, in turn, diminishes those who are the object of such labels. I think it's a matter of self-control and self-respect.
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1980

    Feb 12, 2012 6:56 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidThe republican party has overwhelmingly and finally dispensed with any type of anti-gay stances in the same way the British Conservative party has so that liberals on here or anywhere can't keep playing the "self-hater" card.


    I'm looking forward to that day too, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
    The Republicans are doubling down on their bigotry, not getting past it.
    It seems to be the one defining issue of Rick Santorum, the current front-runner.

    One reason they are hanging onto the gay-bashing is to fire up the conservative rednecks in a way that the Republican economic plan never will. Making billionaires richer at everyone else's expense is not a winning message, so it must be camouflaged with phony "social issues."