BJ's and HIV: I KNOW that this has been discussed before...BUT...

  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Feb 12, 2012 5:48 PM GMT
    I'm SHURRRRR that this topic has been mentioned here before..but I've been "out of touch" for the last 3 years, mongameous, isolated and oblivious.

    That ship has sailed!

    I've had a couple of increasingly erotic, detailed sessions with healthy, handsome, pumped up & low body fat stud, a 10 year HIV pos guy, whose viral count is so low it's darn near indetectable. (hoping I am using the correct terminology here!)

    We have discussed oral sex for our next time together.

    What are my chances of contracting his virus by going down on him without a dental dam or a condom?

  • TufLuck

    Posts: 30

    Feb 12, 2012 6:21 PM GMT
    Undetectable, not in-detectable.

    There only been a few reported cases of HIV transmission through oral sex to date that I know of. The risk of contracting the virus through oral sex is almost zero but it increases should you the guy giving head have any open cuts/sores inside your mouth or if he the giver has some kind of open cut/sore on his dick.

    But most guys if seeing anything off with a dudes cock, mostly notably a cut or sore, wouldn't or shouldn't be dumb enough to go down on him.

    So to answer your question there is almost a zero chance outside of the above that you can contract HIV from blowing this guy, so either have at it or tell the guy you're uncomfortable having sex because he's poz and move on.

    Tuffie

    Oh and there's some great info here from poz.com

    http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/Transmission_9927.shtml
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    Feb 12, 2012 8:02 PM GMT
    TufLuck saidUndetectable, not in-detectable.

    There only been a few reported cases of HIV transmission through oral sex to date that I know of. The risk of contracting the virus through oral sex is almost zero but it increases should you the guy giving head have any open cuts/sores inside your mouth or if he the giver has some kind of open cut/sore on his dick.

    But most guys if seeing anything off with a dudes cock, mostly notably a cut or sore, wouldn't or shouldn't be dumb enough to go down on him.

    So to answer your question there is almost a zero chance outside of the above that you can contract HIV from blowing this guy, so either have at it or tell the guy you're uncomfortable having sex because he's poz and move on.

    Tuffie

    Oh and there's some great info here from poz.com

    http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/Transmission_9927.shtml
    Absolute truth^

    Have fun rnch! Go get em!
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    Feb 12, 2012 11:38 PM GMT
    rnch saidI'm SHURRRRR that this topic has been mentioned here before..but I've been "out of touch" for the last 3 years, mongameous, isolated and oblivious.

    That ship has sailed!

    I've had a couple of increasingly erotic, detailed sessions with healthy, handsome, pumped up & low body fat stud, a 10 year HIV pos guy, whose viral count is so low it's darn near indetectable. (hoping I am using the correct terminology here!)

    We have discussed oral sex for our next time together.

    What are my chances of contracting his virus by going down on him without a dental dam or a condom?



    I don't understand why you would take the chance, despite how low it may be?
  • bradsmith

    Posts: 175

    Feb 12, 2012 11:50 PM GMT
    [quote]


    I don't understand why you would take the chance, despite how low it may be? [/quote]


    Probably for the same reason you put on your seatbelt and drive to work every day, even though you might be in an accident. Nearly everything in life carries with it some risk. How you evaluate and manage those risks determines what sort of a life you lead.

    As a further data point, anecdotal though it may be: I've been undetectable for over 25 years and both of my ex's of 13 and 6 years respectively remain negative...
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    Feb 12, 2012 11:56 PM GMT
    beachbum310 said
    rnch saidI'm SHURRRRR that this topic has been mentioned here before..but I've been "out of touch" for the last 3 years, mongameous, isolated and oblivious.

    That ship has sailed!

    I've had a couple of increasingly erotic, detailed sessions with healthy, handsome, pumped up & low body fat stud, a 10 year HIV pos guy, whose viral count is so low it's darn near indetectable. (hoping I am using the correct terminology here!)

    We have discussed oral sex for our next time together.

    What are my chances of contracting his virus by going down on him without a dental dam or a condom?



    I don't understand why you would take the chance, despite how low it may be?


    When you find someone you are compatible with and/or care about and whose honest and respectful as his partner is, its worth the risk. I would rather take the risk with this undetectable guy. There are so many people out there whose status you don't know ,.or who is dishonest, or not sexually compatible. I applaud this guy for finding and sticking with a guy he enjoys and trusts. That's the kind of friendship and relationship, sexual or not that we all look for.
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    Feb 12, 2012 11:58 PM GMT
    Its okay. The risk is probably lower than you catching HIV from the bedsheets.
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    Feb 13, 2012 12:00 AM GMT
    aren't there any negative dicks in the sea by you?
  • musicdude

    Posts: 734

    Feb 13, 2012 12:06 AM GMT
    also know that if he's undetectable, the chances of you catching the virus from any type of sex with him (lets say he fucks you bare and seeds your ass) is almost (operative word: almost) impossible. the chances of you catching it through oral are even lower since saliva and air contact kills the virus.

    furthermore, to all you people who are freaking out about him giving his guy a bj, know that it is EXTREMELY likely that you, at sometime in your past, have giving a bj to a poz guy that did not disclose to you and you're obviously still fine so stop having a cow and go educate yourself
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    Feb 13, 2012 12:08 AM GMT
    I don't know a single straight or gay man that has oral sex with a condom on. I know it's ideal, but let's just be honest.
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    Feb 13, 2012 12:17 AM GMT
    huhwhat saidI don't know a single straight or gay man that has oral sex with a condom on. I know it's ideal, but let's just be honest.


    + 1
  • easterndude69

    Posts: 632

    Feb 13, 2012 12:38 AM GMT
    huhwhat saidI don't know a single straight or gay man that has oral sex with a condom on. I know it's ideal, but let's just be honest.


    Yeah the thought of it is gross. You're sucking on rubber.icon_rolleyes.gif I would never for the life of me suck a guys schlong with a condom over it. It just does nothing for me and the taste is awful
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    Feb 13, 2012 12:42 AM GMT
    I think we definitely need to RESPECT the risk of contracting AIDS. But we also have to live out lives, and enjoy the gift that is sex and all the awesome stuff that comes with it. I know you're newly single, but don't be afraid to go down on a guy, lol.
  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    Feb 13, 2012 1:02 AM GMT
    There's a case before the Supreme Court in Canada over an HIV+ man who knowingly had sex without disclosing his HIV status to his female partners. One of them sued. The argument that is about to change the status of disclosure and HIV in Canada is that HIV is no longer considered a lethal illness. It is a chronic illness that can be controlled by retrovirus blah blah blah, but the gist of it is that the risk of acquiring HIV from oral sex is already so low that you should be more worried about getting cancer from the plastic utensils and non-stick coatings on your pans than about getting HIV from giving a low viral load guy the best blowjob he's ever had. How old are you? Over 30? Get your PSA tested. You're statistically more likely to suffer from prostate cancer than a sexually acquired death.
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    Feb 13, 2012 2:09 AM GMT
    hardbody1519 said
    beachbum310 said
    rnch saidI'm SHURRRRR that this topic has been mentioned here before..but I've been "out of touch" for the last 3 years, mongameous, isolated and oblivious.

    That ship has sailed!

    I've had a couple of increasingly erotic, detailed sessions with healthy, handsome, pumped up & low body fat stud, a 10 year HIV pos guy, whose viral count is so low it's darn near indetectable. (hoping I am using the correct terminology here!)

    We have discussed oral sex for our next time together.

    What are my chances of contracting his virus by going down on him without a dental dam or a condom?



    I don't understand why you would take the chance, despite how low it may be?


    When you find someone you are compatible with and/or care about and whose honest and respectful as his partner is, its worth the risk. I would rather take the risk with this undetectable guy. There are so many people out there whose status you don't know ,.or who is dishonest, or not sexually compatible. I applaud this guy for finding and sticking with a guy he enjoys and trusts. That's the kind of friendship and relationship, sexual or not that we all look for.


    If I were positive, I would not even consider putting someone at risk
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Feb 13, 2012 11:12 AM GMT
    hornydude01 said
    huhwhat saidI don't know a single straight or gay man that has oral sex with a condom on. I know it's ideal, but let's just be honest.


    Yeah the thought of it is gross. You're sucking on rubber.icon_rolleyes.gif I would never for the life of me suck a guys schlong with a condom over it. It just does nothing for me and the taste is awful



    Flavored condoms do help out to a certain extent, true...but still not as good as the real thing.



    icon_idea.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 20, 2012 8:56 PM GMT
    "The odds of getting HIV through oral sex are low."

    I'm going to say I don't believe that. Could someone please tell me exactly how they arrived at that conclusion? Be as specific as possible. I'm serious.

    If you don't know what you're talking about, please don't respond. If you do, please educate me.
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    Feb 20, 2012 9:02 PM GMT
    If oral sex was a real risk of transmission (provided you aren't massively bleeding orally) - then everyone and their fucking mother would have it.

    No studies have ever conclusively proven that oral sex was the route of transmission - people that had reported it as their only act later came out and said they engaged in other activites.
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    Feb 20, 2012 9:38 PM GMT
    pre-cum factor is freaky !!! you never know when it seeps
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 20, 2012 9:43 PM GMT
    Not unless you have an open lesion on your oral cavity. If not its nearly impossible.
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    Feb 20, 2012 9:47 PM GMT
    I have been HIV positive for over 2.5 years snd my viral load is so low it is undetectable. I can tell you with oral sex using no oral condom there is an extremely low risk to no risk at all of contracting HIV. Anal sex, however, a condom should be used at all times
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    Feb 20, 2012 10:00 PM GMT
    7Famark saidIf oral sex was a real risk of transmission (provided you aren't massively bleeding orally) - then everyone and their fucking mother would have it.
    That's based on the idea that everyone's having oral sex, which everyone isn't. Don't assume everyone's life is your own, and I don't say that to make an allegation, but I'm asking a very serious medical and scientific question, so unless you have the science to support what you're saying, I don't see why anyone should believe you.
    7Famark saidNo studies have ever conclusively proven that oral sex was the route of transmission - people that had reported it as their only act later came out and said they engaged in other activites.
    You're right about that, but does that mean no one has ever aquired HIV that way? The answer is no. Besides that, we haven't even defined "oral sex." Does it mean swallowing the ejaculate? Can anyone get it that way? What if they spit it out? Are the odds changed?

    Then there's the matter of knowing that statistical research about this is based around someone telling the truth, the full truth, and nothing but the truth about their sexual history, which you already established that several people don't.

    I'm having a hard time even imagining how a scientist could conclusively prove oral sex was a route of transmission. Think about it. That only way to know that would be to line uninfected people up paired with the infected, and see what happens, but that's too unethical to be done. The only other way is to find someone who is HIV negative, who later blows an HIV positive person, and is telling the truth about that being the only sex act they've commited in the time since their last STD screening. Has that ever happened? It's not documented, but does it even sound likely? What are the odds that you'd go a while without sex, get screened, then the one person you meet is HIV positive, and the one thing you do is blow him, and then you get screened and found HIV positive. The rareity of that circumstance contributes to why it's not documented. Not only that, but everyone might just say the person is lying about their sexual history.

    Lastly, consider how much of a self fulfilling prophacy this "safer sex" advice is. If you run around the globe giving out blowjobs like candy, and you're convinced that you can't get HIV that way because of what someone on RJ said, then you're not going to get tested. Let's say you then have anal sex. Well now you're afraid that you might have HIV, so you get tested and find out that you've got it. Now, can you know that you got it from the anal sex? No, but you'll assume as much based on what you already think, which is that oral sex couldn't have possibly have infected you.

    Everyone on this forum sounds so sure of themselves, but that's not how doctors feel. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0738399198001396

    Let me pose this question a different way. What's stopping you from getting HIV through oral sex?
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    Feb 20, 2012 10:10 PM GMT
    Im really not trying tp rain on your parade but is the smallest chance worth it?
    This guy Brian, went through it so it's first hand information
    His partner told him he was undetectable.
    Youtuber.....BryBryVaughn...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh4P2-AymjI
  • jim_sf

    Posts: 2094

    Feb 20, 2012 10:46 PM GMT
    "The per-contact risk associated with... receptive oral sex with HIV-positive or unknown serostatus partners was... 0.04 percent...."
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10430236

    Those are aggregate probabilities; they are not normalized for the insertive partner's viral load, the condition of the receptive partner's mouth, or what happened to the ejaculate. In addition, the 95% confidence interval on that study goes from 0.01% to 0.17% - so, at the low end, the risk is 1 in 10,000, but at the high end it's 17 in 10,000. And the study was conducted on data collected before HAART was widespread, so it may have little to no bearing on current risk.

    Still: based on that study, the OP's risk is nonzero but extremely low. Other studies, on monogamous serodiscordant couples, found zero seroconversions from oral sex at all.

    And honestly: the risk that I'll be hit by an asteroid on my way home from work today is nonzero, but I'm not going to cower in the basement in fear of a Fiery Death from Space.
  • Beeftastic

    Posts: 1747

    Feb 20, 2012 10:47 PM GMT
    musicdude saidalso know that if he's undetectable, the chances of you catching the virus from any type of sex with him (lets say he fucks you bare and seeds your ass) is almost (operative word: almost) impossible. the chances of you catching it through oral are even lower since saliva and air contact kills the virus.

    furthermore, to all you people who are freaking out about him giving his guy a bj, know that it is EXTREMELY likely that you, at sometime in your past, have giving a bj to a poz guy that did not disclose to you and you're obviously still fine so stop having a cow and go educate yourself


    This is a completely dangerous assumption. There has been ONE study of HETEROSEXUAL couples (i.e, not a lot of anal sex) that showed LOWERED risk of transmission. That's not conclusive enough by any medical standards to put your life at risk. To say it is just about impossible is just wrong.

    Also, if someone tests as undetectable, that is good for the day of the test, what about in a couple of weeks or a month? HIV viral load is known to spike for various reasons including catching a cold, using recreational drugs, stress, etc. etc. etc. Also, the viral load test is for HIV detection in the blood, not in the semen etc. There have been no conclusive tests yet that measure viral load in the semen of undetectable patients.

    I will say that I think the risk of oral sex with an undetectable guy is probably very low, and it's a chance I would take if I liked the guy. I equate this with the risk of accident while driving in traffic. Yes, there is a small risk, but it's not going to stop me from living my life.