Terrible inexcusable miscarriage of justice

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 13, 2012 11:25 PM GMT
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/12/convict-exonerated-after-death_n_1272061.html
  • creature

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    Feb 14, 2012 12:42 AM GMT
    It is. Even more distressing is that some state courts are reluctant to introduce the possibility of overturning convictions that were administered prior to advance of DNA testing.
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    Feb 14, 2012 12:45 AM GMT
    creature saidIt is. Even more distressing is that some state courts are reluctant to introduce the possibility of overturning convictions that were administered prior to advance of DNA testing.


    A great example of why I'm generally against the death penalty. This is almost as bad, in fact is as bad. I've worked with too many DA's offices over the years and I know what happens once they get their name and EGO attached to a case.
  • creature

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    Feb 14, 2012 12:54 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    creature saidIt is. Even more distressing is that some state courts are reluctant to introduce the possibility of overturning convictions that were administered prior to advance of DNA testing.


    A great example of why I'm generally against the death penalty. This is almost as bad, in fact is as bad. I've worked with too many DA's offices over the years and I know what happens once they get their name and EGO attached to a case.


    That's kind of how it was explained to me by my forensics professor who's a police lieutenant. I was surprised that the states wouldn't want want to overturn wrongful convictions. But he said that it would mean they were wrong, and it could possibly be costly if a judgment is awarded..
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Feb 14, 2012 12:54 AM GMT
    Wait a Dog Gone Cotton Pickin' Minute here

    Wasn't it just a few months ago when same post humous exoneratin' Governor
    Rick Perry got a Yee Ha from the Republican audience at a Fox Fest campaign debate ?

    and ALSO ... lemme see carry the one minus ten ...... who was the Governor in 19999 ?
    ..... and who laughed when asked to commute a sentence for a woman on death row?

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    Feb 14, 2012 12:56 AM GMT
    I'm sure you've read of these folks?

    http://www.innocenceproject.org/
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    Feb 14, 2012 12:58 AM GMT
    creature said
    freedomisntfree said
    creature saidIt is. Even more distressing is that some state courts are reluctant to introduce the possibility of overturning convictions that were administered prior to advance of DNA testing.


    A great example of why I'm generally against the death penalty. This is almost as bad, in fact is as bad. I've worked with too many DA's offices over the years and I know what happens once they get their name and EGO attached to a case.


    That's kind of how it was explained to me by my forensics professor who's a police lieutenant. I was surprised that the states wouldn't want want to overturn wrongful convictions. But he said that it would mean they were wrong, and it could possibly be costly if a judgment is awarded..


    And since they saw me in kind of a convoluted way as as being one of them, I heard plenty.
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Feb 14, 2012 1:00 AM GMT
    Yes I have. For that same forensics class, I did my report on the snaggletooth killer, and I used that site for research.

    Hearing these stories does bring about some confliction for me, because I do support the death penalty.
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    Feb 14, 2012 1:05 AM GMT
    creature saidYes I have. For that same forensics class, I did my report on the snaggletooth killer, and I used that site for research.

    Hearing these stories does bring about some confliction for me, because I do support the death penalty.


    There are some circumstances where I would and do. KSM is a good example, but it has to be guilty without doubt, not beyond a ‘reasonable’ doubt. And even with that, I’m still uncomfortable with it in the vast majority of circumstances.
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    Feb 14, 2012 1:08 AM GMT
    creature said
    freedomisntfree said
    creature saidIt is. Even more distressing is that some state courts are reluctant to introduce the possibility of overturning convictions that were administered prior to advance of DNA testing.


    A great example of why I'm generally against the death penalty. This is almost as bad, in fact is as bad. I've worked with too many DA's offices over the years and I know what happens once they get their name and EGO attached to a case.


    That's kind of how it was explained to me by my forensics professor who's a police lieutenant. I was surprised that the states wouldn't want want to overturn wrongful convictions. But he said that it would mean they were wrong, and it could possibly be costly if a judgment is awarded..


    And it damn well should be costly and far more so if they knowingly made a 'mistake'
  • creature

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    Feb 14, 2012 1:17 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    creature saidYes I have. For that same forensics class, I did my report on the snaggletooth killer, and I used that site for research.

    Hearing these stories does bring about some confliction for me, because I do support the death penalty.


    There are some circumstances where I would and do. KSM is a good example, but it has to be guilty without doubt, not beyond a ‘reasonable’ doubt. And even with that, I’m still uncomfortable with it in the vast majority of circumstances.


    And of course, that is the issue: "without doubt" and "beyond a reasonable doubt." I am sure, with the evidence stacked against some of these alleged killers, it was seen as without doubt.

    I guess I feel the same way you do, but in some cases it can be hard. If the alleged actually committed a crime, a skillful defense attorney can still create some doubt into the minds of the jurors (i.e. OJ Simpson trial)
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    Feb 14, 2012 1:22 AM GMT
    creature said
    freedomisntfree said
    creature saidYes I have. For that same forensics class, I did my report on the snaggletooth killer, and I used that site for research.

    Hearing these stories does bring about some confliction for me, because I do support the death penalty.


    There are some circumstances where I would and do. KSM is a good example, but it has to be guilty without doubt, not beyond a ‘reasonable’ doubt. And even with that, I’m still uncomfortable with it in the vast majority of circumstances.


    And of course, that is the issue: "without doubt" and "beyond a reasonable doubt." I am sure, with the evidence stacked against some of these alleged killers, it was seen as without doubt.

    I guess I feel the same way you do, but in some cases it can be hard. If the alleged actually committed a crime, a skillful defense attorney can still create some doubt into the minds of the jurors (i.e. OJ Simpson trial)


    I’ve had clients on both sides of some of these high profile cases beginning with U.S. v. John Zachary DeLorean and on until I made a late life career change in about 2000. I’ve had both Howard Weitzman’s firm (Bob Shapiro was there too) and the US Attorneys’ office as clients. I not implying that they did anything wrong ‘CYA’, but I’ve seen many cases since when the braggadocio on the prosecutorial side gave me grave concern.
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Feb 14, 2012 1:23 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    creature said
    freedomisntfree said
    creature saidIt is. Even more distressing is that some state courts are reluctant to introduce the possibility of overturning convictions that were administered prior to advance of DNA testing.


    A great example of why I'm generally against the death penalty. This is almost as bad, in fact is as bad. I've worked with too many DA's offices over the years and I know what happens once they get their name and EGO attached to a case.


    That's kind of how it was explained to me by my forensics professor who's a police lieutenant. I was surprised that the states wouldn't want want to overturn wrongful convictions. But he said that it would mean they were wrong, and it could possibly be costly if a judgment is awarded..


    And it damn well should be costly and far more so if they knowingly made a 'mistake'


    But you know this can literally bankrupt states? I think they will need to limit the payout. Beside the bruised ego factor of the state, state representatives will be reluctant to make any reforms where they're shelling out millions for each overturned conviction.
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    Feb 14, 2012 1:27 AM GMT
    creature said
    freedomisntfree said
    creature said
    freedomisntfree said
    creature saidIt is. Even more distressing is that some state courts are reluctant to introduce the possibility of overturning convictions that were administered prior to advance of DNA testing.


    A great example of why I'm generally against the death penalty. This is almost as bad, in fact is as bad. I've worked with too many DA's offices over the years and I know what happens once they get their name and EGO attached to a case.


    That's kind of how it was explained to me by my forensics professor who's a police lieutenant. I was surprised that the states wouldn't want want to overturn wrongful convictions. But he said that it would mean they were wrong, and it could possibly be costly if a judgment is awarded..


    And it damn well should be costly and far more so if they knowingly made a 'mistake'


    But you know this can literally bankrupt states? I think they will need to limit. Beside the bruised ego factor of the state, state representatives will be reluctant to make any reforms where they're shelling out millions for each overturned conviction.


    I know, unfortunately I know. It's one of the many areas of life where I simply don't have an answer I'm comfortable with. Not only does irreversible, grievous harm occur, the actual perp gets away with it. It’s the one area of life where I wish we somehow had a more perfect system.
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    Feb 14, 2012 1:47 AM GMT
    I do hope that before you take the bar, pass and are admitted that you get the ‘opportunity’ to sit as a juror on a serious criminal trial. And IF you choose to practice on the prosecutorial side, that you always keep in mind the grave consequences of your actions. And especially to defendants represented by the PD. I’m quite certain that you will.
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    Feb 14, 2012 1:48 AM GMT
    Happy to discuss further, but for right now, off to the gym.
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    Feb 14, 2012 1:49 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree saidHappy to discuss further, but for right now, off to the gym.
    Thats what you always say when you've had your rather large rear handed to ya!icon_wink.gif
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    Feb 14, 2012 2:44 AM GMT
    TropicalMark said
    freedomisntfree saidHappy to discuss further, but for right now, off to the gym.
    Thats what you always say when you've had your rather large rear handed to ya!icon_wink.gif


    Around the same time of night just about every night. Closes early on Sat and Sun.

    Prefer stills or vids?

    last night

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    Feb 14, 2012 2:56 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    TropicalMark said
    freedomisntfree saidHappy to discuss further, but for right now, off to the gym.
    Thats what you always say when you've had your rather large rear handed to ya!icon_wink.gif


    Around the same time of night just about every night. Closes early on Sat and Sun.

    Prefer stills or vids?

    last night

    Get a life Scott. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Feb 14, 2012 5:07 AM GMT
    TropicalMark said
    freedomisntfree said
    TropicalMark said
    freedomisntfree saidHappy to discuss further, but for right now, off to the gym.
    Thats what you always say when you've had your rather large rear handed to ya!icon_wink.gif


    Around the same time of night just about every night. Closes early on Sat and Sun.

    Prefer stills or vids?

    last night

    Get a life Scott. icon_rolleyes.gif


    Right after you. Sorry, no stills. Notice the Kansas State game and time on the monitor. And on ESPN so real easy to look up. EST btw. So yes, two hours in the day everyday. Easier to go than fake.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 14, 2012 5:12 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    TropicalMark said
    freedomisntfree said
    TropicalMark said
    freedomisntfree saidHappy to discuss further, but for right now, off to the gym.
    Thats what you always say when you've had your rather large rear handed to ya!icon_wink.gif


    Around the same time of night just about every night. Closes early on Sat and Sun.

    Prefer stills or vids?

    last night

    Get a life Scott. icon_rolleyes.gif


    Right after you. Sorry, no stills. Notice the Kansas State game and time on the monitor. And on ESPN so real easy to look up. EST btw. So yes, two hours in the day everyday. Easier to go than fake.
    Take your wife next time.. she needs it as much as you do!
    Maggie-Gallagher-on-RT-screengrab-230x10
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    Feb 14, 2012 5:40 AM GMT
    TropicalMark said
    freedomisntfree said
    TropicalMark said
    freedomisntfree said
    TropicalMark said
    freedomisntfree saidHappy to discuss further, but for right now, off to the gym.
    Thats what you always say when you've had your rather large rear handed to ya!icon_wink.gif


    Around the same time of night just about every night. Closes early on Sat and Sun.

    Prefer stills or vids?

    last night

    Get a life Scott. icon_rolleyes.gif


    Right after you. Sorry, no stills. Notice the Kansas State game and time on the monitor. And on ESPN so real easy to look up. EST btw. So yes, two hours in the day everyday. Easier to go than fake.
    Take your wife next time.. she needs it as much as you do!
    Maggie-Gallagher-on-RT-screengrab-230x10


    Here's a very pretty pic of your next love

    Rick_Santorum_official_photo_cropped.jpg