The Protein debate ! Trainers and Nutritionist, seem to can't agree on

  • MarcBodybuild...

    Posts: 683

    Feb 17, 2012 9:10 PM GMT

    Topic : Taking too much protein will make u fat according to some people in the fitness industry, well this topic seems a bit on the area of endless debates from the sides of nutritionist and the sides of bodybuilders, personal trainers, etc

    one thing they can't seem to agree on is how much protein , and what happens if u take a lot of protein will it be aiding muscle, or storing fat.

    No clue if they will ever have a final say, since both sides would say one thing that would completely be the opposite of what the other is saying..

    icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Feb 17, 2012 10:22 PM GMT
    Protien has a caloric value... Unused calories are stored as fat, So yes it is true, too much protein will make you fat. But not half as fat as too much sugar or fats which will make you fatter, faster and with more clogged arteries and diabetes

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    Feb 17, 2012 11:23 PM GMT
    It is frustrating. I must've read a hundred articles on protein intake trying to figure this out. At the end of the day, I guess you just go with what works for you. I stopped reading the articles because there is no conclusive answer. I've been clean bulking and I've been gaining steady mass at about 1g protein/1 lb body weight. If I stop gaining, I'll up that. All guess work though on my part.
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    Feb 18, 2012 12:12 AM GMT
    Can't find the reference but apparently you are good with a protein intake under 40% of your energy intake.

    Getting fat on high protein is rather hard. Protein is more expensive than carbs and fats. Protein is more filling. High protein foods are typically meats which are less calorie dense than things like bread, fries/chips, or oatmeal which means more food in your stomach for an equicaloric diet.
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    Feb 18, 2012 12:50 AM GMT
    grofte saidCan't find the reference but apparently you are good with a protein intake under 40% of your energy intake.

    Getting fat on high protein is rather hard. Protein is more expensive than carbs and fats. Protein is more filling. High protein foods are typically meats which are less calorie dense than things like bread, fries/chips, or oatmeal which means more food in your stomach for an equicaloric diet.


    Very true. If you have to have fat accumulate do it with protein. Protein, provides 4 calories per gram consumed while fat provides 9 calories per grams consumed. Excess protein is de-aminated and stored as fat, which is how that happens. The bigger issues with excess protein is not fat as much as it is added stress/strain on your kidneys. If you are taking in more than 30% protien in your daily diet of protein, carbs and fats, you are in the high protien category, but as another poster said, this is a far better alternative to sugar based stuff or fat filled calories from nutritionally vacuous foods like you'd find at McDonald's.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Feb 18, 2012 1:52 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidSimply experiment and find what works for you.

    I eat roughly 200g of protein daily.

    I try to eat around 300g of carbs from vegetable and fruit sources.

    I also try to get around 150 to 200g of healthy fats a day.

    This yields roughly 3400 to just a little over 3800 calories daily.


    The problem with experimenting to see what works is that doing the wrong thing may seem to work in the short run but damage could be accumulating which in the long run would create serious problems.

    In the short run, smoking doesn't seem to create serious problems. However, we know that eventually it causes very serious problems. Similarly, a diet deficient in calcium may not seem to create problems in the short run, but in the long run, it causes loss of bone mass which can lead to fractures. Excessive exposure to sunlight, short of causing sun burn, creates no immediate problems but eventually it increases the risk of skin cancer.

    Unfortunately, our knowledge of diet is incomplete. We often have to make choices in the absence of adequate information, but we do have enough information to avoid some problems.
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    Feb 18, 2012 2:00 AM GMT
    Maybe you shouldn't take advice from people who aren't experts on nutrition. Ask a registered dietitian. They actually have a tough university-accredited 5 program you have to go through, get accepted to a 1200 hr supervised practice program, and pass an exam.

    What's a personal trainer have to do? Pay a fee and print out a certificate. The word "nutritionist" is not regulated by any body. People cannot call themselves "dietitians" until they have an RD behind their name.

    This is the purpose of their profession. Because everyone is so busy being an expert themselves on non-science based nutrition. The RD practices evidence-based nutrition and dietetics.

    www.eatright.org

    click on Find a registered dietitian

  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Feb 18, 2012 2:15 AM GMT
    bluey2223 saidMaybe you shouldn't take advice from people who aren't experts on nutrition. Ask a registered dietitian. They actually have a tough university-accredited 5 program you have to go through, get accepted to a 1200 hr supervised practice program, and pass an exam.

    What's a personal trainer have to do? Pay a fee and print out a certificate. The word "nutritionist" is not regulated by any body. People cannot call themselves "dietitians" until they have an RD behind their name.

    This is the purpose of their profession. Because everyone is so busy being an expert themselves on non-science based nutrition. The RD practices evidence-based nutrition and dietetics.

    www.eatright.org

    click on Find a registered dietitian



    Probably it is reasonable to be guided by the recommendations of qualified dietitians. However, we still have to recognize that, like the practice of medicine, knowledge of optimal nutrition is not exact and opinions will probably continue to change for some time.

    Also, not everyone has the same dietary requirements. Requirements vary based on age, activity level, ethnicity, gender, and probably other factors. Only some of these differences are well understood.
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    Feb 18, 2012 3:00 AM GMT
    bluey2223 saidMaybe you shouldn't take advice from people who aren't experts on nutrition. Ask a registered dietitian. They actually have a tough university-accredited 5 program you have to go through, get accepted to a 1200 hr supervised practice program, and pass an exam.

    What's a personal trainer have to do? Pay a fee and print out a certificate. The word "nutritionist" is not regulated by any body. People cannot call themselves "dietitians" until they have an RD behind their name.

    This is the purpose of their profession. Because everyone is so busy being an expert themselves on non-science based nutrition. The RD practices evidence-based nutrition and dietetics.

    www.eatright.org

    click on Find a registered dietitian



    Ha, ha . Professional dietitian. There the one's that come around in hospitals and make sure you eat your jello and 4 others courses of sugary and salty junk food.
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    Feb 18, 2012 3:31 AM GMT
    Dieticians and nutritionists each have their own agendas, usually political. I don't listen to them. Fuck 'em, they're assholes.

    RELATED: Here's our nation's number one health professional, picked by Obama (as in picking a warehouse order, with a forklift):

    250px-Regina_Benjamin_crop.jpg

    OBAMA'S A DICK
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    Feb 18, 2012 3:56 AM GMT
    If you want real answers, go search on the American Physiology Society website, they have actual research articles on these things. I'm actually reading a couple of piece right now on whey and casein.
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    Feb 18, 2012 8:50 AM GMT
    bluey2223 saidMaybe you shouldn't take advice from people who aren't experts on nutrition. Ask a registered dietitian. They actually have a tough university-accredited 5 program you have to go through, get accepted to a 1200 hr supervised practice program, and pass an exam.

    What's a personal trainer have to do? Pay a fee and print out a certificate. The word "nutritionist" is not regulated by any body. People cannot call themselves "dietitians" until they have an RD behind their name.

    This is the purpose of their profession. Because everyone is so busy being an expert themselves on non-science based nutrition. The RD practices evidence-based nutrition and dietetics.

    www.eatright.org

    click on Find a registered dietitian



    As it happens I am a) experienced weightlifter and bodybuilder with a lot of research on diet under my belt b) hold a Doctor of Pharmacy degree, which provided nutritional training along with all the drug stuff and c) hold an National Academy of Sports Medicine (NASM) personal training certification, which is one hell of a hrd exam and rivaled my pharmacy licensure exam for detail and difficulty, so it's no "look I want to be a trainer let me pay $50 and print me a certificate" affair. So some of us do know what we are doing.
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2605

    Feb 18, 2012 11:31 PM GMT
    I`ve read that even the most rigorous weight training programme needs no more than 1.5g of protein per kg. of body weight.
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    Feb 19, 2012 12:11 AM GMT
    Okay, little lesson on human biochemistry.

    Sugar is catabolized either to lactic acid or to activated acetic acid. Activated acetic acid is the basis for a lot of syntheses. It can also be used for the synthesis of fatty acids. Therefore when you eat sugar, you can gain fat.

    Fat is catabolized also to activated acetic acid which then enters the citric acid cycle and gets burned to CO2.

    Protein is catabolized in very various forms. It can include to a) be reduced to metabolites of the citric acid cycle or b) be reduced to uric acid. There are more options but they are irrelevant for this argumentation.

    A) When it enters the citric acid cycle, it COULD theoretically be metabolized to activated acetic acid and thus be used for the synthesis of fatty acids. But the state of metabolism you're in will never allow that in a relevant amount. Most protein that is catabolized will end up being burnt to CO2 and NH3 because that's what gives your body energy.
    Protein usually is only then catabolized in a relevant amount if you're in hunger for a very long period or are severely damaged. A normal workout will also cause damage to your muscles. But that will not cause protein to be formed to fatty acids. Instead it will be burnt to CO2 and NH3 in order to get the energy to repair the muscle.
    A normal healthy person who works out will always have enough sugar and fat in order to refill their depots of fat, so forming protein into fat is completely unnecessary for your body and that pathway will be blocked.

    B) Instead, all the protein is burnt to CO2 and NH3, such as uric acid. Uric acid will then be eliminated through your kidneys.
    By eating a lot of protein your body produces a lot of uric acid. Hyperuricemia (too much uric acid in your blood) is a cause for articular gout and renal calculi. But in order for your body to produce THAT MUCH uric acid you'd have to eat an unreal amount of meat.




    So IN SHORT
    Too much protein does not cause you to get fat, but it CAN be a risk leading to paroxysmal articular gout or renal calculi.
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    Feb 19, 2012 12:37 AM GMT
    stevenv saidOkay, little lesson on human biochemistry.

    Sugar is catabolized either to lactic acid or to activated acetic acid. Activated acetic acid is the basis for a lot of syntheses. It can also be used for the synthesis of fatty acids. Therefore when you eat sugar, you can gain fat.

    Fat is catabolized also to activated acetic acid which then enters the citric acid cycle and gets burned to CO2.

    Protein is catabolized in very various forms. It can include to a) be reduced to metabolites of the citric acid cycle or b) be reduced to uric acid. There are more options but they are irrelevant for this argumentation.

    A) When it enters the citric acid cycle, it COULD theoretically be metabolized to activated acetic acid and thus be used for the synthesis of fatty acids. But the state of metabolism you're in will never allow that in a relevant amount. Most protein that is catabolized will end up being burnt to CO2 and NH3 because that's what gives your body energy.
    Protein usually is only then catabolized in a relevant amount if you're in hunger for a very long period or are severely damaged. A normal workout will also cause damage to your muscles. But that will not cause protein to be formed to fatty acids. Instead it will be burnt to CO2 and NH3 in order to get the energy to repair the muscle.
    A normal healthy person who works out will always have enough sugar and fat in order to refill their depots of fat, so forming protein into fat is completely unnecessary for your body and that pathway will be blocked.

    B) Instead, all the protein is burnt to CO2 and NH3, such as uric acid. Uric acid will then be eliminated through your kidneys.
    By eating a lot of protein your body produces a lot of uric acid. Hyperuricemia (too much uric acid in your blood) is a cause for articular gout and renal calculi. But in order for your body to produce THAT MUCH uric acid you'd have to eat an unreal amount of meat.




    So IN SHORT
    Too much protein does not cause you to get fat, but it CAN be a risk leading to paroxysmal articular gout or renal calculi.


    100% Nutritionally Accurate! Hear that guys? You may eat your steaks without worry. Your hips and bottoms are safe.
  • jtcrew65

    Posts: 29

    Feb 19, 2012 12:55 AM GMT
    stevenv saidOkay, little lesson on human biochemistry.

    Sugar is catabolized either to lactic acid or to activated acetic acid. Activated acetic acid is the basis for a lot of syntheses. It can also be used for the synthesis of fatty acids. Therefore when you eat sugar, you can gain fat.

    Fat is catabolized also to activated acetic acid which then enters the citric acid cycle and gets burned to CO2.

    Protein is catabolized in very various forms. It can include to a) be reduced to metabolites of the citric acid cycle or b) be reduced to uric acid. There are more options but they are irrelevant for this argumentation.

    A) When it enters the citric acid cycle, it COULD theoretically be metabolized to activated acetic acid and thus be used for the synthesis of fatty acids. But the state of metabolism you're in will never allow that in a relevant amount. Most protein that is catabolized will end up being burnt to CO2 and NH3 because that's what gives your body energy.
    Protein usually is only then catabolized in a relevant amount if you're in hunger for a very long period or are severely damaged. A normal workout will also cause damage to your muscles. But that will not cause protein to be formed to fatty acids. Instead it will be burnt to CO2 and NH3 in order to get the energy to repair the muscle.
    A normal healthy person who works out will always have enough sugar and fat in order to refill their depots of fat, so forming protein into fat is completely unnecessary for your body and that pathway will be blocked.

    B) Instead, all the protein is burnt to CO2 and NH3, such as uric acid. Uric acid will then be eliminated through your kidneys.
    By eating a lot of protein your body produces a lot of uric acid. Hyperuricemia (too much uric acid in your blood) is a cause for articular gout and renal calculi. But in order for your body to produce THAT MUCH uric acid you'd have to eat an unreal amount of meat.




    So IN SHORT
    Too much protein does not cause you to get fat, but it CAN be a risk leading to paroxysmal articular gout or renal calculi.


    While all true, if you're talking about a situation in which you're likely eating more calories than you consume, meaning you're intending to gaining weight, it has to go somewhere.

    Generally speaking, high protein diets are beneficial in the fact that most people don't consume as many calories on them as they do with diets rich in carbs or fat. As long as you're working out, your body will have a high demand for amino acids for muscle repair, so much of it will go to muscle growth. Even a sedentary person with a diet high in protein but very high in calories (alot more than they're burning off) would likely gain alot of fat, because protein will go through that anabolic pathway mentioned (forming acetyl-CoA for the generation of fatty acids) and stored as fat because there is no demand for increased muscle.

    So...high protein diet? Great for muscle building. But you still have to do the weightlifting so your body will put the protein in the right place. More intense weightlifting means more muscle damage, more demand for amino acids to build muscle, and more need for the protein you're consuming in your diet.
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    Feb 19, 2012 1:16 AM GMT
    jtcrew65 said
    stevenv saidOkay, little lesson on human biochemistry. [...]


    [...]
    Generally speaking, high protein diets are beneficial in the fact that most people don't consume as many calories on them as they do with diets rich in carbs or fat. As long as you're working out, your body will have a high demand for amino acids for muscle repair, so much of it will go to muscle growth. Even a sedentary person with a diet high in protein but very high in calories (alot more than they're burning off) would likely gain alot of fat, because protein will go through that anabolic pathway mentioned (forming acetyl-CoA for the generation of fatty acids) and stored as fat because there is no demand for increased muscle.[...]

    Yes, that is the situation I was actually referring to. I mean, we are all jocks here, aren't we. icon_biggrin.gif So I was acting on the assumption that a work out is involved.

    If there's too much protein though, it's rather catabolized than used for anabolism.

    And personally, I think a person would be full before he can eat that much protein so that he gains fat because of it.
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    Feb 19, 2012 2:28 AM GMT
    MuscledHorse said
    bluey2223 saidMaybe you shouldn't take advice from people who aren't experts on nutrition. Ask a registered dietitian. They actually have a tough university-accredited 5 program you have to go through, get accepted to a 1200 hr supervised practice program, and pass an exam.

    What's a personal trainer have to do? Pay a fee and print out a certificate. The word "nutritionist" is not regulated by any body. People cannot call themselves "dietitians" until they have an RD behind their name.

    This is the purpose of their profession. Because everyone is so busy being an expert themselves on non-science based nutrition. The RD practices evidence-based nutrition and dietetics.

    www.eatright.org

    click on Find a registered dietitian



    As it happens I am a) experienced weightlifter and bodybuilder with a lot of research on diet under my belt b) hold a Doctor of Pharmacy degree, which provided nutritional training along with all the drug stuff and c) hold an National Academy of Sports Medicine (NASM) personal training certification, which is one hell of a hrd exam and rivaled my pharmacy licensure exam for detail and difficulty, so it's no "look I want to be a trainer let me pay $50 and print me a certificate" affair. So some of us do know what we are doing.


    Gee, last I checked, getting a degree in pharmacy doesn't make you an expert on diet. Getting a personal trainer certification doesn't mean you know anything about exercise physiology. You're the guy on here promoting steroids.
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    Feb 19, 2012 2:36 AM GMT
    Alpha13 said
    bluey2223 saidMaybe you shouldn't take advice from people who aren't experts on nutrition. Ask a registered dietitian. They actually have a tough university-accredited 5 program you have to go through, get accepted to a 1200 hr supervised practice program, and pass an exam.

    What's a personal trainer have to do? Pay a fee and print out a certificate. The word "nutritionist" is not regulated by any body. People cannot call themselves "dietitians" until they have an RD behind their name.

    This is the purpose of their profession. Because everyone is so busy being an expert themselves on non-science based nutrition. The RD practices evidence-based nutrition and dietetics.

    www.eatright.org

    click on Find a registered dietitian



    Ha, ha . Professional dietitian. There the one's that come around in hospitals and make sure you eat your jello and 4 others courses of sugary and salty junk food.


    Just like other healthcare professions, the education has been changing to include evidence-based approaches for care. Older dietitians, who mostly worked exclusively in hospitals, are now a bit behind in what the younger dietitians know from a science and physiology understanding. So, I agree, jello and sugary/salty junk food is not the best thing for most people in the hospital (it often isn't their fault but more the hospital bureaucracy that determines what can be served and what can't be--they just get to work with what they're given due to lack of power). Don't trash the entire new wave of dietitians coming out who had to pass extensive coursework under cutting edge PhDs who study health. I challenge anyone on here who is trashing the profession to go pass the coursework and get the credential yourself. You'll at least have respect then.

    Dietitians are working not only in hospitals now but it is considered one of the fastest growing professions thanks to the obesity epidemic and the fact that no one knows what to eat because everyone is an expert (as evidenced by this thread). They work in food service management, clinical (hospitals), community programs, private practice, and are recently being hired as the nutrition expert for NCAA collegiate and professional sports teams.

    They're not hiring pharmacists to do nutrition work. They're not hiring personal trainers to do nutrition work. They're not hiring MDs to do nutrition work (because they lack the nutrition education emerging dietitians have also--MDs study pathophysiology, diagnosis, and pharmaceutical and surgical remedies and critical care--not experts on mechanisms of prevention and the work that goes behind doing that).

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    Feb 19, 2012 2:39 AM GMT
    Lincsbear saidI`ve read that even the most rigorous weight training programme needs no more than 1.5g of protein per kg. of body weight.


    This is about right. Depending on the source, some have found up to 1.7g/kg. All exercising individuals should be consuming 1.2-1.7 depending on mode of exercise. Older studies showed 2.0g/kg worked.

    Of course, someone will misread this and think we mean lbs, not kg.

    If you want the lb conversion, that's about 0.7g protein per pound. The only people who measure this out are dietitians and orthorexic types (not a DSM-IV or DSM-V classification yet, so using the term orthorexic in jest).

  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Feb 19, 2012 3:24 AM GMT
    stevenv saidOkay, little lesson on human biochemistry.

    Sugar is catabolized either to lactic acid or to activated acetic acid. Activated acetic acid is the basis for a lot of syntheses. It can also be used for the synthesis of fatty acids. Therefore when you eat sugar, you can gain fat.

    Fat is catabolized also to activated acetic acid which then enters the citric acid cycle and gets burned to CO2.

    Protein is catabolized in very various forms. It can include to a) be reduced to metabolites of the citric acid cycle or b) be reduced to uric acid. There are more options but they are irrelevant for this argumentation.

    A) When it enters the citric acid cycle, it COULD theoretically be metabolized to activated acetic acid and thus be used for the synthesis of fatty acids. But the state of metabolism you're in will never allow that in a relevant amount. Most protein that is catabolized will end up being burnt to CO2 and NH3 because that's what gives your body energy.
    Protein usually is only then catabolized in a relevant amount if you're in hunger for a very long period or are severely damaged. A normal workout will also cause damage to your muscles. But that will not cause protein to be formed to fatty acids. Instead it will be burnt to CO2 and NH3 in order to get the energy to repair the muscle.
    A normal healthy person who works out will always have enough sugar and fat in order to refill their depots of fat, so forming protein into fat is completely unnecessary for your body and that pathway will be blocked.

    B) Instead, all the protein is burnt to CO2 and NH3, such as uric acid. Uric acid will then be eliminated through your kidneys.
    By eating a lot of protein your body produces a lot of uric acid. Hyperuricemia (too much uric acid in your blood) is a cause for articular gout and renal calculi. But in order for your body to produce THAT MUCH uric acid you'd have to eat an unreal amount of meat.




    So IN SHORT
    Too much protein does not cause you to get fat, but it CAN be a risk leading to paroxysmal articular gout or renal calculi.


    I've also read that excessive protein causes the body to lose calcium thereby increasing the risk of loss of bone density.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Feb 19, 2012 3:28 AM GMT
    jtcrew65 said
    stevenv saidOkay, little lesson on human biochemistry.

    Sugar is catabolized either to lactic acid or to activated acetic acid. Activated acetic acid is the basis for a lot of syntheses. It can also be used for the synthesis of fatty acids. Therefore when you eat sugar, you can gain fat.

    Fat is catabolized also to activated acetic acid which then enters the citric acid cycle and gets burned to CO2.

    Protein is catabolized in very various forms. It can include to a) be reduced to metabolites of the citric acid cycle or b) be reduced to uric acid. There are more options but they are irrelevant for this argumentation.

    A) When it enters the citric acid cycle, it COULD theoretically be metabolized to activated acetic acid and thus be used for the synthesis of fatty acids. But the state of metabolism you're in will never allow that in a relevant amount. Most protein that is catabolized will end up being burnt to CO2 and NH3 because that's what gives your body energy.
    Protein usually is only then catabolized in a relevant amount if you're in hunger for a very long period or are severely damaged. A normal workout will also cause damage to your muscles. But that will not cause protein to be formed to fatty acids. Instead it will be burnt to CO2 and NH3 in order to get the energy to repair the muscle.
    A normal healthy person who works out will always have enough sugar and fat in order to refill their depots of fat, so forming protein into fat is completely unnecessary for your body and that pathway will be blocked.

    B) Instead, all the protein is burnt to CO2 and NH3, such as uric acid. Uric acid will then be eliminated through your kidneys.
    By eating a lot of protein your body produces a lot of uric acid. Hyperuricemia (too much uric acid in your blood) is a cause for articular gout and renal calculi. But in order for your body to produce THAT MUCH uric acid you'd have to eat an unreal amount of meat.




    So IN SHORT
    Too much protein does not cause you to get fat, but it CAN be a risk leading to paroxysmal articular gout or renal calculi.


    While all true, if you're talking about a situation in which you're likely eating more calories than you consume, meaning you're intending to gaining weight, it has to go somewhere.

    Generally speaking, high protein diets are beneficial in the fact that most people don't consume as many calories on them as they do with diets rich in carbs or fat. As long as you're working out, your body will have a high demand for amino acids for muscle repair, so much of it will go to muscle growth. Even a sedentary person with a diet high in protein but very high in calories (alot more than they're burning off) would likely gain alot of fat, because protein will go through that anabolic pathway mentioned (forming acetyl-CoA for the generation of fatty acids) and stored as fat because there is no demand for increased muscle.

    So...high protein diet? Great for muscle building. But you still have to do the weightlifting so your body will put the protein in the right place. More intense weightlifting means more muscle damage, more demand for amino acids to build muscle, and more need for the protein you're consuming in your diet.


    Fine, but what happens when you reach your limit of muscle growth? Then the protein can be used for muscle repair and other purposes, but it will no longer be used for muscle growth. Once one has reached the point where muscle gain is minimal, it would seem that the minimum amount of protein required would only slightly exceed the requirements for someone who gets little exercise.
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    Feb 19, 2012 3:40 AM GMT
    bluey2223 said
    MuscledHorse said
    bluey2223 saidMaybe you shouldn't take advice from people who aren't experts on nutrition. Ask a registered dietitian. They actually have a tough university-accredited 5 program you have to go through, get accepted to a 1200 hr supervised practice program, and pass an exam.

    What's a personal trainer have to do? Pay a fee and print out a certificate. The word "nutritionist" is not regulated by any body. People cannot call themselves "dietitians" until they have an RD behind their name.

    This is the purpose of their profession. Because everyone is so busy being an expert themselves on non-science based nutrition. The RD practices evidence-based nutrition and dietetics.

    www.eatright.org

    click on Find a registered dietitian



    As it happens I am a) experienced weightlifter and bodybuilder with a lot of research on diet under my belt b) hold a Doctor of Pharmacy degree, which provided nutritional training along with all the drug stuff and c) hold an National Academy of Sports Medicine (NASM) personal training certification, which is one hell of a hrd exam and rivaled my pharmacy licensure exam for detail and difficulty, so it's no "look I want to be a trainer let me pay $50 and print me a certificate" affair. So some of us do know what we are doing.


    Gee, last I checked, getting a degree in pharmacy doesn't make you an expert on diet. Getting a personal trainer certification doesn't mean you know anything about exercise physiology. You're the guy on here promoting steroids.


    well maybe you should do more educating yourself on what goes into a doctorate degree in pharmacy (start with learning about the compositinon of perenteral nutritional solutions and go from there) and your ignorace of what goes into a personal training certification, at least the one from NASM, is staggaring; a great deal of insane detail on exercise phyisology is involved especially because the majority of people coming into a gym nowadays are deconditioned to the point you have to a lot of super basic stuff just to get them to where you can start doing what would ahve been basic stuff 10 years ago without injuring themselves.

    And yes, I do support the proper and limited use of testosterone as one of many tools in the supplement/growth toolbox. And again, your ignorace of the subject is glaring and you can bet the doctorate in pharmacy does a lot of study that would cover testosterone (steroids, you may be interested to know is a class of compounds sharing a similar multi ring structure and includes cholesterol, vitamin D, estrogen, prednisone and a host of others so try using the terminology correctly for starters) in these odd subjects you might try familiarizing yourself with called medicinal chemestry, pharmacology, biochememistry, pharmaceutics and pharmacokenitics. If you spent as much time educating yourself on the subjects at hand as you do insulting thsoe of us who actually know our subject matter and are experienced with it you might be far more helpful.

    Steveny: great biochem summary!
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    Feb 19, 2012 3:51 AM GMT
    Dude, you're drugged up on steroids. Just because you can formulate a parenteral nutrition product doesn't mean you know nutrition.

    A personal training certification is not equivalent to a bachelors and masters degree in kinesiology and exercise physiology.

    You're not fooling me with the big words. We have medical terminology in our curriculum and actually study beyond the word itself...

    But yea, if you wanna go jump in a tanning bed and take more steroids, have fun.
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    Feb 19, 2012 10:41 AM GMT
    FRE0 saidI've also read that excessive protein causes the body to lose calcium thereby increasing the risk of loss of bone density.

    That can be true in the long run. Usually half of your calcium in your blood is bound to proteins (mostly albumin). If your blood protein level rises, more calcium will be bound to protein and less will be in your blood in ionized form. Your body can only regulate the ionized form, so it will tend to provide calcium from your kidneys and bones.
    So yes, that actually makes sense.

    FRE0 saidFine, but what happens when you reach your limit of muscle growth? Then the protein can be used for muscle repair and other purposes, but it will no longer be used for muscle growth. Once one has reached the point where muscle gain is minimal, it would seem that the minimum amount of protein required would only slightly exceed the requirements for someone who gets little exercise.

    Yeah, but the body needs a high supply of protein then anyway in order to maintain this mass of muscles. Your body constantly adapts to your behaviour. What you don't need will be abolished.
    So if you keep your work out on a high level you will also need a high supply of protein to maintain your mass.



    MuscledHorse saidSteveny: great biochem summary!

    Thank you! I'm actually glad it turned out to be somewhat proper English since it was around 1.30 am and I'd had a few beers when I wrote it icon_biggrin.gif


    Oh and btw... you don't really need to be dietitian to know what to eat. If you want to put on mass, you have to eat more protein than usually.
    And the easiest way and the only really working diet to lose weight is: Eat only the fucking half of what you usually eat, goddammit.