Was burglary worth killing 2 men?

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    Jul 02, 2008 4:06 AM GMT
    Story Highlights

    Texan won't be indicted in shooting of suspected burglars

    Martin notes that many are cheering the Texas decision

    But the deaths deserve more serious consideration, he says

    Martin asks: Would you shoot 2 men to protect your neighbor's property?

    Well, would you?

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/01/roland.martin/index.html

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 02, 2008 4:18 AM GMT
    No. A life is still a life compared to material possesions, and material possesions come and go anyways.
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    Jul 02, 2008 4:43 AM GMT
    Link please.
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    Jul 02, 2008 4:46 AM GMT
    I was under the impression that using lethal force when not threatened (even while being robbed) is illegal.
    Maybe that is just my state. People have gone to prison for shooting burglars, I think.

    Who is Martin?
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    Jul 02, 2008 4:47 AM GMT
    Bad judgement !! You don't kill anyone unless they shoot at you ! He could have fired in the air to scare?
    But have to say did not read story!
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Jul 02, 2008 4:50 AM GMT
    Hmmmmm, I dunno, did they steal his RealJock membership? icon_lol.gif
  • Nudista

    Posts: 158

    Jul 02, 2008 4:53 AM GMT
    To shoot both guys in the BACK killing both men is pretty outrageous when considering the motive...protecting a neighbors property.

    Both these guys should have been locked up and serving good time...but neither deserved death.

    This guy who shot them definitely needs to be tried.

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    Jul 02, 2008 4:55 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidHmmmmm, I dunno, did they steal his RealJock membership? icon_lol.gif


    No, much worse! They threatened to make him pay if he wants access to RJ features that he never uses while keeping the ones he does use completely free. While it doesn't effect him at all, he killed them out of principle and lack of anything better to do.
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    Jul 02, 2008 4:56 AM GMT
    TurkishDelight said...You don't kill anyone unless they shoot at you...

    I think you mean to say, "Unless your (or others') life is threatened."

    He's no hero, and since these guys weren't threatening his life or anyone else's, he's a murderer.

    I could totally see shooting them if they were threatening him with harm. Totally. But it was just a break-in, and the cops can deal with that.
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    Jul 02, 2008 4:58 AM GMT
    I don't want to fish my law textbook out from underneath my bed, but surely the neighbor can sue the shooter. Any lawyers in the house?
    Can you imagine coming home to find that your neighbor, in an attempt to save your VCR (I mean Tivo) killed two guys on your property.
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    Jul 02, 2008 5:01 AM GMT
    5537B00B saidI don't want to fish my law textbook out from underneath my bed, but surely the neighbor can sue the shooter. Any lawyers in the house?
    Can you imagine coming home to find that your neighbor, in an attempt to save your VCR (I mean Tivo) killed two guys on your property.


    He should at least be able to sue him for cleaning expenses. If the guys fell inside the house and voided their bowels after death I'd at least expect new carpet out of it.
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    Jul 02, 2008 5:06 AM GMT
    If I can sue a doctor for performing CPR on me without my consent than this should be in the bag. (law check**)

    Having said that, I would not sue my neighbor - not THIS particular neighbor, not unless I want to end up like Swiss Cheese.
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    Jul 02, 2008 5:12 AM GMT
    Well, what would you say to someone who says if the two burglars just stayed out of other people's houses they wouldnt get shot?

    Do you think the shooter should get motion detector alarms for the outside of his house?
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    Jul 02, 2008 5:20 AM GMT
    Caslon4000 saidWell, what would you say to someone who says if the two burglars just stayed out of other people's houses they wouldnt get shot?

    Do you think the shooter should get motion detector alarms for the outside of his house?


    1) That still does not legally warrant lethal force - unless he truly believed that he personally was in danger which is highly unlikely because the burglars were in the house next door. But, I agree with them that "shit happens."

    2) Yes, he should - but this is irrelevant because the burglars, in this case, were in the house next door and he has has no right to tell his neighbor what to do. I don;t really understand this question.
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    Jul 02, 2008 5:25 AM GMT

    The outrage by this man's act is understandable, but I feel it is the result of culture shock. I'm guessing the CNN broadcaster lives nowhere near Texas and neither does Caslon. I can feel a hint of this culture shock when I hear disdain over the praise this man is receiving or the apparent apathy he feels towards the deceased.

    LOL, if you lived in Texas or Oklahoma, you wouldn't be so outraged. This sorta over the top man pissing is CELEBRATED in Texas and here. Especially when you consider the color of the fallen and the color of their killer. This may not be the WHOLE reason, but being white can help you in Texas, believe that.

    I understand the outrage felt here, but had this happened a little further up the map...this man would have gotten life. He shot these men in the right part of the world and as the newscaster said: Texas is very tuff on crime and it is.

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    Jul 02, 2008 5:26 AM GMT
    5537B00B said

    Caslon4000 said:

    Do you think the shooter should get motion detector alarms for the outside of his house?

    2) Yes, he should - but this is irrelevant because the burglars, in this case, were in the house next door and he has has no right to tell his neighbor what to do. I don;t really understand this question.


    I am thinking that there are a lot of immigrants that might decide to "return the favor" to him some night.

    I know I wouldnt sleep over at his house.
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    Jul 02, 2008 5:32 AM GMT
    Caslon4000 saidWell, what would you say to someone who says if the two burglars just stayed out of other people's houses they wouldnt get shot?


    5537B00B said Do you think the shooter should get motion detector alarms for the outside of his house?


    1) That still does not legally warrant lethal force - unless he truly believed that he personally was in danger which is highly unlikely because the burglars were in the house next door. But, I agree with them that "shit happens."

    2) Yes, he should - but this is irrelevant because the burglars, in this case, were in the house next door and he has has no right to tell his neighbor what to do. I don;t really understand this question.[/quote]

    You forgot 3) It's Texas and the answer to WWJD in this situation will always be shoot first ask questions later, especially if they appear anything darker than lightly tanned.
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    Jul 02, 2008 5:33 AM GMT
    In your right mind you would never:

    Reach through a fence to pet a pit bull.
    Drop your daughter off in a dark alley with nothing but a miniskirt and a tube of lipstick.
    Eat day-old hamburger.
    Brush your teeth with Preparation H.
    Wave a rainbow flag at a skinhead rally.
    Vote Republican in the hopes of seeing YOUR tax cut become permanent too.
    Rob a Texan.
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    Jul 02, 2008 5:36 AM GMT
    Caslon4000 said[quote][cite]5537B00B said[/cite]

    Caslon4000 said:

    Do you think the shooter should get motion detector alarms for the outside of his house?

    2) Yes, he should - but this is irrelevant because the burglars, in this case, were in the house next door and he has has no right to tell his neighbor what to do. I don;t really understand this question.


    I am thinking that there are a lot of immigrants that might decide to "return the favor" to him some night.

    I know I wouldnt sleep over at his house.[/quote]


    Eh, I doubt that "immigrants" would resort to vengeful acts simply because the shooter's actions weren't completely motivated by anti-"immigrant" sentiments. Even "immigrants" understand that if you break into someone's house, you may get shot.

    I suspect that "Mr. Neighborhood Watch" has more that motion-detectors. Something tells me that he is prepared for WW3 and 4.
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    Jul 02, 2008 5:43 AM GMT
    ......................................mullet

    .........................................
    "Them boys did what?"
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    Jul 02, 2008 5:46 AM GMT
    Caslon4000 saidDo you think the shooter should get motion detector alarms for the outside of his house?
    In some places a 12 gauge with buckshot is a motion detector and preventer. You shoot and if it goes Ka-Thump! it WAS moving but it 'taint any more!
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    Jul 02, 2008 7:22 AM GMT
    OMG, THOSE POOR LITTLE CRIMINALS!

    5537B00B saidCan you imagine coming home to find that your neighbor, in an attempt to save your VCR (I mean Tivo) killed two guys on your property.


    Supposing his 14 year old daughter was home alone? Supposing his wife was home alone?
    Supposing he was an elderly man caring for his disabled wife?

    A thank you would be a good place to start.

    If they didn't want to get shot, they shouldn't be stupid criminals in Texas.


    Texas is it's own when it comes to laws. I think any kind of theft after dark is a pewpew-free zone.

    'OMG criminals have guns, ban guns!'
    'OMG someone shot a criminal with a gun, ban guns!'

    Hhaha couldn't help it. I know it doesn't relate to the question.

    I would say No, that stealing doesn't justify lethal force. However, the Citizens of Texas do, and I don't live in Texas so my opinion does not nor should have any weight.

    I know you can get shot for stealing a hub cap after dark. These stupid criminals apparently don't, and got shot by a LAW ABIDING citizen. He did what the LAW permitted him to do.

    Seriously, if you don't want to get shot, or otherwise maimed, don't be a piece of shit!

    And while I wouldn't shoot someone for a VCR, I bet those two criminals WOULD. My sympathy tank is running on E right now. Boohoo.
    Stop breaking into houses to steal what others have toiled for!.. oh wait, they won't be... anymore!
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    Jul 02, 2008 7:53 AM GMT
    Quote from the article:

    "He could have left apprehending criminals to the folks empowered to do so -- the police."

    Every citizen is empowered to prevent crime and arrest criminals.
    Clinton News Network: 'oh no crime! don't do anything about it though, sit still, chew your cud and don't make any sudden movements that may scare the poor little criminals, while the Police take care of it, once they arrive.'


    Oh, and by the way: Arizona law allows me to blast your ass to mars to prevent you from burglarizing a residence. It's called crime prevention.

    Also, I believe it was the Supreme Court who ruled that law enforcement officers don't have a specific duty to protect the life of a citizen.
    Cops come AFTER the fact, so unless you want to be a statistic, I suggest you act to safeguard your life: it's NOT the job of your local PO!
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    Jul 02, 2008 11:49 AM GMT
    I believe it's called "Castle Doctrine."

    Jeff
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    Jul 02, 2008 12:58 PM GMT
    shoot to kill.

    I sleep with a pistol under my pillow. Its better than a teddy bear.

    I live in the middle of no where. it'd take forever for a cop to get out to my ranch. if someone is breaking into my house, I'll assume they are armed and dangerous and very stupid.