havi

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    Feb 21, 2012 11:34 PM GMT
    I watched som
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    Feb 22, 2012 1:40 AM GMT
    I think so.
  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    Feb 22, 2012 1:49 AM GMT
    it's the same hiv. You're just not as vulnerable.
  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    Feb 22, 2012 1:53 AM GMT
    Ok I misunderstood your question. The viral load is YOUR viral load. If you don't have HIV you don't have one.
  • Dbrad3693

    Posts: 227

    Feb 22, 2012 1:55 AM GMT
    Im not a doctor or anything. But if the other guy and the person are on the the same medication, to my understanding it is ok IF they both are clear of other STD's. I know a gay couple and both are HIV +. They are both undectetable and are on the same medication. They bareback each other. And from what I understand, both are extremely healthy and happy.

    (If one person is on a certain med and stops taking it there is a chance the virus can become immune to that certain med. Thats why they both have to be on the same one. There are several different types of meds now)
  • BronxvilleNY3...

    Posts: 101

    Feb 22, 2012 2:11 AM GMT
    There are 2 Types of HIV, HIV-1, HIV 2. HIV-1, which is the one common in the US, it is classified in groups, so far there are 4 groups, they are M,N,O,P.

    Within group M there are known to be at least nine genetically distinct subtypes of HIV-1. These are subtypes A, B, C, D, F, G, H, J and K.

    Each subtype is capable of creating mutations that makes to each one different than the other.

    When a person is infected with any subtype the person MUST avoid to be super-infected with another subtype, because this subtype may not be susceptible to the medication that the person is taking.

    In other words GROSS mistake!
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    Feb 22, 2012 2:17 AM GMT
    owenowen saidI watched something online where HIV+ guys were talking about living with being +.

    1 guy said he had an undetectable viral load but also said he prefers to have sex with other HIV+ guys because he likes sex without condoms.

    My question is if your viral load is low and undetectable and you have unprotected sex with a guy whose viral load is increased are you likely to contract a stronger strain of HIV
    I am pretty sure that is the case
  • tyler_helm

    Posts: 299

    Feb 22, 2012 2:23 AM GMT
    BronxvilleNY38 saidThere are 2 Types of HIV, HIV-1, HIV 2. HIV-1, which is the one common in the US, it is classified in groups, so far there are 4 groups, they are M,N,O,P.

    Within group M there are known to be at least nine genetically distinct subtypes of HIV-1. These are subtypes A, B, C, D, F, G, H, J and K.

    Each subtype is capable of creating mutations that makes to each one different than the other.

    When a person is infected with any subtype the person MUST avoid to be super-infected with another subtype, because this subtype may not be susceptible to the medication that the person is taking.

    In other words GROSS mistake!



    That is what I understand also. The mutations are varied from one person to the next
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    Feb 22, 2012 2:40 AM GMT
    Many here answered it for you. But if you have sex with someone who has a higher load , then you can introduce a higher number of copies in your system.

    Also. Regardless of the load, You can introduce a new strain into your system that makes you resistant to your current medication which is a bad thing.

    Also there reported accounts of HIV+ people having unprotected with each other and developing a 'super resistant' strain that is resistant to many or most medications available which is bad.
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    Feb 22, 2012 2:48 AM GMT
    Thanks guys

    Yes that is exactly what i thought.
    The guy i saw on you tube came across as though he was 'ok' because his viral load is/was undetectable and that there is a very slim chance of him passing HIV onto any body else that is neg (though he said he always plays safe with neg guys) however he prefers sex with poz guys because they can fuck without condoms which he prefers, but as I was watching him speak i thought, well if you are undetectable you wanna keep it that way and if you fuck with a guy that has a much higher load count then surely you are at risk of re infecting your self.

    I am not an expert tho and i am sure he has researched stuff though he did mention that he had caught a few s t d's from a fuck buddy
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    Feb 22, 2012 2:55 AM GMT
    owenowen saidI watched something online where HIV+ guys were talking about living with being +.

    1 guy said he had an undetectable viral load but also said he prefers to have sex with other HIV+ guys because he likes sex without condoms.

    My question is if your viral load is low and undetectable and you have unprotected sex with a guy whose viral load is increased are you likely to contract a stronger strain of HIV


    The "superbug" may be the result of someone who was untreated and who obtained MANY types of HIV from different people BEFORE getting treatment with meds. Again, this means he didnt have anything suppressing the virusES from replicating.... and thus the virus had time to mutate, mix and become resistant to everything. I don't think there is too much literature on this.

    If you are treated with HAART / antiretrovirals, you already have meds in your system that will suppress the virus, so adding a new one likely wont make a difference - UNLESS, you get a new strain that is resistant to the meds that are in your body.

    So yes, it's possible but my understanding is that it's not too likely to get a new strain or to create a "superbug" once you are medicated.
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    Feb 22, 2012 3:08 AM GMT
    owenowen saidThanks guys

    Yes that is exactly what i thought.
    The guy i saw on you tube came across as though he was 'ok' because his viral load is/was undetectable and that there is a very slim chance of him passing HIV onto any body else that is neg (though he said he always plays safe with neg guys) however he prefers sex with poz guys because they can fuck without condoms which he prefers, but as I was watching him speak i thought, well if you are undetectable you wanna keep it that way and if you fuck with a guy that has a much higher load count then surely you are at risk of re infecting your self.

    I am not an expert tho and i am sure he has researched stuff though he did mention that he had caught a few s t d's from a fuck buddy
    You cannot 're infect'.. once infected it is there(albeit hiding) until eradicated.. and that aint happened but once so far!icon_wink.gif
  • awschubert

    Posts: 15

    Feb 22, 2012 3:13 AM GMT
    owenowen saidI watched something online where HIV+ guys were talking about living with being +.

    1 guy said he had an undetectable viral load but also said he prefers to have sex with other HIV+ guys because he likes sex without condoms.

    My question is if your viral load is low and undetectable and you have unprotected sex with a guy whose viral load is increased are you likely to contract a stronger strain of HIV


    I have a friend who works in an infectious disease clinic who deals with primarily HIV positive people and I have heard where he has said basically theres only 2 strains of HIV but everyone takes different meds, some peoples strain of HIV has gotten used to different medications. So sleeping with someone who has HIV may have taken the same medication as you and their body has built an immunity to that particular medication so with that said you can end up having to change meds and such so all in all you cant catch several different strains but you can end up building up an immunity and then you over time can end up having to go from taking 1 pill a day to 2 or 3 several times a day.


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    Feb 22, 2012 3:36 AM GMT
    I'm sure most people in this thread mean well, but very little written so far is useful or correct. Unfortunately most of what passes for knowledge about HIV is gleaned from stories, anecdotes, assumptions or poor interpretation of good clinical data.

    The reality is that in North America we generally only see HIV1, so unless you travel to Africa frequently and have sex with native Africans the discussion of HIV2 is irrelevant. Discussion of clades, subtypes, groups and strains is best left to experts; it is typically not relevant to a discussion about unprotected sex between two partners already infected with HIV1.

    'Superinfection' with different strains of HIV1 is largely an academic discussion. It has been discussed in these forums before. It is an extremely complex subject. The very few confirmed cases of one person being infected with distinctly different strains of the virus can usually be traced to previously HIV-negative individuals being infected with the different varieties at initial infection. It would be exceedingly rare (but probably not impossible) for an individual who is HIV+ with HIV1 and has already mounted a robust immune response to become infected by another strain of HIV1 during unprotected sex. People with strong opinions about HIV and what is 'acceptable' behavior generally don't like to hear this because it threatens deeply held notions, but it is true nonetheless.

    Having said that, it shouldn't be permission to already HIV+ individuals to let their guard down with respect to unnecessary exposure to illness. An activated immune system (that is, one fighting infection of any sort) is not a good one if HIV+.
  • jim_sf

    Posts: 2094

    Feb 22, 2012 4:46 AM GMT
    rightasrain saidI'm sure most people in this thread mean well, but very little written so far is useful or correct. Unfortunately most of what passes for knowledge about HIV is gleaned from stories, anecdotes, assumptions or poor interpretation of good clinical data.

    The reality is that in North America we generally only see HIV1, so unless you travel to Africa frequently and have sex with native Africans the discussion of HIV2 is irrelevant. Discussion of clades, subtypes, groups and strains is best left to experts; it is typically not relevant to a discussion about unprotected sex between two partners already infected with HIV1.

    'Superinfection' with different strains of HIV1 is largely an academic discussion. It has been discussed in these forums before. It is an extremely complex subject. The very few confirmed cases of one person being infected with distinctly different strains of the virus can usually be traced to previously HIV-negative individuals being infected with the different varieties at initial infection. It would be exceedingly rare (but probably not impossible) for an individual who is HIV+ with HIV1 and has already mounted a robust immune response to become infected by another strain of HIV1 during unprotected sex. People with strong opinions about HIV and what is 'acceptable' behavior generally don't like to hear this because it threatens deeply held notions, but it is true nonetheless.

    Having said that, it shouldn't be permission to already HIV+ individuals to let their guard down with respect to unnecessary exposure to illness. An activated immune system (that is, one fighting infection of any sort) is not a good one if HIV+.


    Re-posting because it's damned good. Thanks as usual, rightasrain.

    (BTW: the guy that the OP saw in the video is much more likely to contract a different STI than he is another strain of HIV.)
  • dannyboy1101

    Posts: 977

    Feb 22, 2012 5:10 AM GMT
    rightasrain saidI'm sure most people in this thread mean well, but very little written so far is useful or correct. Unfortunately most of what passes for knowledge about HIV is gleaned from stories, anecdotes, assumptions or poor interpretation of good clinical data.

    The reality is that in North America we generally only see HIV1, so unless you travel to Africa frequently and have sex with native Africans the discussion of HIV2 is irrelevant. Discussion of clades, subtypes, groups and strains is best left to experts; it is typically not relevant to a discussion about unprotected sex between two partners already infected with HIV1.

    'Superinfection' with different strains of HIV1 is largely an academic discussion. It has been discussed in these forums before. It is an extremely complex subject. The very few confirmed cases of one person being infected with distinctly different strains of the virus can usually be traced to previously HIV-negative individuals being infected with the different varieties at initial infection. It would be exceedingly rare (but probably not impossible) for an individual who is HIV+ with HIV1 and has already mounted a robust immune response to become infected by another strain of HIV1 during unprotected sex. People with strong opinions about HIV and what is 'acceptable' behavior generally don't like to hear this because it threatens deeply held notions, but it is true nonetheless.

    Having said that, it shouldn't be permission to already HIV+ individuals to let their guard down with respect to unnecessary exposure to illness. An activated immune system (that is, one fighting infection of any sort) is not a good one if HIV+.


    Amen. And anyways the virus is always trying to mutate hence why no regimen of medication is used constantly for a person's whole life (usually). The superbug was talking about people who were negative getting infected with resistant HIV strains. Resistances from poz to poz are hard to pass, but one must be careful of other STDs such as hep C bc when combined w HIV it can get nasty. Anyways, do u really want to help create a new AIDS should one evolve just bc u don't like condoms?

    On the flip side though, there are different schools o thought even among experts. Some medicate instantly while others say to wait until numbers start trending in a bad direction as many medications are harsh on the system and the sooner one starts a regimen, the sooner one will have to switch to a new one as a medication becomes ineffective.
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    Feb 22, 2012 5:28 AM GMT
    a wealth of information on both sides of the argument can be found by googling 'is HIV superinfection real'.

    any HIV+ individuals considering unprotected sex should learn as much as they can and make their own decisions.
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    Feb 22, 2012 5:47 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    ZbmwM5 said
    owenowen saidI watched something online where HIV+ guys were talking about living with being +.

    1 guy said he had an undetectable viral load but also said he prefers to have sex with other HIV+ guys because he likes sex without condoms.

    My question is if your viral load is low and undetectable and you have unprotected sex with a guy whose viral load is increased are you likely to contract a stronger strain of HIV


    The "superbug" may be the result of someone who was untreated and who obtained MANY types of HIV from different people BEFORE getting treatment with meds. Again, this means he didnt have anything suppressing the virusES from replicating.... and thus the virus had time to mutate, mix and become resistant to everything. I don't think there is too much literature on this.

    If you are treated with HAART / antiretrovirals, you already have meds in your system that will suppress the virus, so adding a new one likely wont make a difference - UNLESS, you get a new strain that is resistant to the meds that are in your body.

    So yes, it's possible but my understanding is that it's not too likely to get a new strain or to create a "superbug" once you are medicated.

    This was my understanding, too.

    There is a documentary called "the gift" (which broke my friggin' heart to watch) about bug chasers and in contrast there's a bunch of hiv+ guys who are like "what the f are these guys doing" and a couple of them talk about this. That's where I heard that multiple hiv infection could be a serious issue for guys who are exposed to many before they start treatment, but if exposure occurs after the initial infection is in check than it's unlikely to cause the same problems. Problems included meds not being nearly as effective and the disease progressing much faster. The video is available in a bunch of parts (6?) on youtube. It was good, but sad.


    'resistance' as we know it in the medical community ONLY results under the selective pressure of medications (antivirals). although HIV is very sloppy when it replicates and does create mutations on its own, it doesn't "mutate, mix and become resistant to everything" on its own (i.e. in the absence of medications in the bloodstream). it develops resistance mutations only while a patient is on antiretroviral therapy.

    infection with "many 'types' of HIV from different people before getting treatment" may result in so-called 'circulating recombinant forms' (CRFs), but it doesn't result in "superbugs" that are "resistant to everything"... because the virus(es) has never been exposed to any medications.

    don't get medical care or information from sensational videos on youtube.
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    Feb 22, 2012 6:46 AM GMT
    RightAsRain ...thanks.

    From 2005. But, it's a good read.
    http://www.thebody.com/content/art2513.html

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    Feb 22, 2012 6:55 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    rightasrain said
    don't get medical care or information from sensational videos on youtube.

    Cool...just online forums then. icon_wink.gif


    Keyword 'sensational'.
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    Feb 22, 2012 6:57 AM GMT
    I have the HIV Virus, but my viral load is undetectable thanks to the medicine that I am on. Although there is an increased chance of catching a stronger strain of HIV from having unprotected sex with another person that has an increased viral load, it is not safe to take the risk. Even if their viral load is undetectable, it is still there. It is best to have sex with condoms even if the other person is HIV because some HIV strands are drug-resistant to all HIV medications.
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    Feb 22, 2012 4:50 PM GMT
    Some more great info here http://www.thebody.com/content/art49400.html

    I too posted a response about 'super-infection'' etc.. on another site. The answer I got back was that with an undetectable VL it is extremely low chances to infect/re-infect someone. It cant be said that there is no possibility as the virus is present. In addition, given the amount of unprotected sex that goes on if reinfection/super-infection easy to take place we should have seen a large number of such cases. But the reality is that we haven't.

    The probability increases when one or both have a high viral load, 100's of thousands to a few millions of copies per ml. Keeping in mind that undetectable is less than 40 copies per ml. Massive difference in numbers there.

    On a side note protected sex (by a poz or neg person) with a HIV+ undetectable person is considered safe. And yes I asked my doc and got that answer.
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    Feb 22, 2012 5:00 PM GMT
    There is alot about HIV that I don't understand. But my heart and my love go out to those living and coping with the virus. Keep strong!
  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Feb 22, 2012 5:05 PM GMT
    listen, what if he has herpes or some other type of std? its not about being positive its about what else you can contract by going raw. not to mention there different types strands of hiv and the thought is that you never want to mix the different strands.
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    Feb 22, 2012 5:08 PM GMT
    owenowen saidI watched something online where HIV+ guys were talking about living with being +.

    1 guy said he had an undetectable viral load but also said he prefers to have sex with other HIV+ guys because he likes sex without condoms.

    My question is if your viral load is low and undetectable and you have unprotected sex with a guy whose viral load is increased are you likely to contract a stronger strain of HIV


    i dont think so, unless the virus mutates