July 4...what else is there to say?

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    Jul 04, 2008 5:33 PM GMT
    FREEDOM

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." -- The Declaration of Independence
  • GQjock

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    Jul 04, 2008 9:31 PM GMT
    KissingPro saidFREEDOM

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." -- The Declaration of Independence


    ...that all men are created equal
    'cept the black ones of course

    ...that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights
    and not them thar homosexual ones
    Jesus said he never did like them

    ...among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
    indubitably... ceptin' if they want to have gay marriage. That can only be between a man and a woman
    ... and some second cousins twice removed icon_wink.gif
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    Jul 04, 2008 9:50 PM GMT
    Words, however correct, however impassioned, however noble are defined by actions.

    We declared ourselves independent, and set out the principles of independence, but that wasn't enough, and it never will be.

    I seem to recall we fought a war to win that independence and another one (bloodier by an exponent) to even begin to adjust the injustices that lay between sentiment and deed.

    Truths, self evident though they may be, require better men than me to make them so.

    Terry
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    Jul 05, 2008 12:34 AM GMT
    Give thanks to our fore-fathers for the freedom they fought for and earned rightfully. I am grateful to them for the freedom that we, here in the United States, have to day and work to maintain.


    But freedom, wholly and absolutely, has not been achieved... and won't be in my lifetime. Perhaps, when people can govern themselves in a way that does not restrict or oppress others, then freedom can stretch it's wings.
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    Jul 05, 2008 12:35 AM GMT
    i can't take this holiday seriously since i still can't get married. you can't set a large portion of the population aside and say 'no, sorry, YOU'RE different; YOU don't get those rights- i know i know, there are a couple hundred you're missing out on- but your happiness just doesn't matter as much as everyone else's. sorry'- its unconstitutional, and as long as our country insists on such a stance, i really can't buy into its patriotic bull crap. lets not even get into the searches without warrants, the war crimes, and the torture cases; my personal second-class citizenship is enough to spoil the whole thing for me.
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    Jul 05, 2008 1:18 AM GMT
    I don't remeber who said it, so I'll just put the jist of it in my own words. Freedom is an ongoing struggle, something that will always have to be fought for, (not saying by war either) its not something that is safe once in place. Freedom requires close watching, and accountability of those whom we vote into office to preserve it. We now have an administration with bush as leader who many quote as having said, "quit throughing the constitution at me, its just a god damn piece of paper". Our freedoms have been greatly eroded by this administration and by the whimp dems who didn't take the opportunities to stop that erosion. I'm thankfull for the groups like the ACLU, and many others who have files suits and cases to retrievc information via the "freedom of information act" (much to the dislike of the repug administration) A new group has recently formed, that I think goes by the name of Freedoms (or) (constitutions)500, the ACLU and many other groups and Many other important learned/experienced people have signed this groups statement of intent, to regain the freedoms/constitutional losses brought about by this administration. We have a huge struggle ahead to keep these freedoms from further erosion. You younger men, get involved, and vote and influence those you know to replace these damned old school, power hungry old fools the likes of bush, cheney and any other of the members of their elitist "Project for the new american century" or any future group of this power grabbing ilk. I see hope though !!! the pendulum is swinging away from the bush brand of conservatism because it has brought hell on earth and many peoples eyes are opening.
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    Jul 05, 2008 1:24 AM GMT
    And be grateful we have rights at all. It could be worse.
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    Jul 05, 2008 1:33 AM GMT
    I am very grateful for the freedoms we have. While the day has a great significance to the founding of our country (U.S), we also have the freedom to derive our own personal meaning. Besides what kissingpro already posted, here is a Buddhist affirmation of liberation and freedom:

    Four Limitless QualitiesMay all sentient beings enjoy happiness
    and the root of happiness.

    May we be free from suffering
    and the root of suffering.

    May we not be separated from
    the great happiness devoid of suffering.

    May we dwell in the great equanimity
    free from passion, aggression, and prejudice.


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    Jul 05, 2008 2:10 AM GMT
    Here is an interesting Taoist perspective of the 4th of July http://uselesstree.typepad.com/useless_tree/2008/07/and-still-another-taoist-july-4th.html

    Also

    Tao Te Ching 64Therefore the sage seeks freedom from desire.
    He does not collect precious things.
    He learns not to hold on to ideas.
    He brings men back to what they have lost.
    He helps the ten thousand things find their own nature, but refrains from action.

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    Jul 05, 2008 2:28 AM GMT
    yeah i love the tao te ching- though i disagree with it in parts- but i've always struggled with that 'not collecting precious things' bit.... lol. i agree with its teaching on the way of the tau- of neutrality and of embracing all opposites as equal and equally necessary... but i disagree with the entire part about nature serving as man's greatest role model. mentor, yes- role model, no, not in my opinion- at least not in the sense that lau tzu describes. that's my two cents on the worlds oldest book :p
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    Jul 05, 2008 3:05 AM GMT
    czarodziej saidyeah i love the tao te ching- though i disagree with it in parts- but i've always struggled with that 'not collecting precious things' bit.... lol. i agree with its teaching on the way of the tau- of neutrality and of embracing all opposites as equal and equally necessary... but i disagree with the entire part about nature serving as man's greatest role model. mentor, yes- role model, no, not in my opinion- at least not in the sense that lau tzu describes. that's my two cents on the worlds oldest book :p
    While older than the Christian bible, I don't think it is the worlds oldest book. It OK to disagree though, that is freedom. If the Tao is the underlying principle of "the known" it will remain in action even when we don't see or understand it. However, I think people often mistake "the Way" with a western concept of God or even "nature". It is more like a great "something" or even "nothing" upon which the entire visible universe sits on. As far as disagreeing with words, it should be expected, the problem with words in describing "the Way" is paradoxically laid out (The Tao Te Ching is not the Tao)

    Tao Te Ching 1The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.
    The name that can be named is not the eternal name.

    The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth.
    The named is the mother of ten thousand things.
    Ever desireless, one can see the mystery.
    Ever desiring, one can see the manifestations.
    These two spring from the same source but differ in name;
    this appears as darkness.
    Darkness within darkness.
    The gate to all mystery.

    Nevertheless, whatever ideas we have there is freedom or liberty ..
    Tao Te Ching 59The mark of a moderate man
    is freedom from his own ideas.

    I know you are a fan of ALEISTER CROWLEY Here is something you may like (I am not a fan of his old english prose and he interjects his own philosophy perhaps, but still interesting)
    http://deoxy.org/taowley.htm Looking at it, it is HIGHLY paraphrased.

    I think I prefer the classic Jane English translation
    http://elyxr.com/tao/index.cfm among others


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    Jul 05, 2008 11:04 AM GMT
    ActiveAndFit saidHere is an interesting Taoist perspective of the 4th of July http://uselesstree.typepad.com/useless_tree/2008/07/and-still-another-taoist-july-4th.html

    Also

    [quote][cite]Tao Te Ching 64[/cite]Therefore the sage seeks freedom from desire.
    He does not collect precious things.
    He learns not to hold on to ideas.
    He brings men back to what they have lost.
    He helps the ten thousand things find their own nature, but refrains from action.

    [/quote]

    I STILL will step on a cockaroach or a scorpion to kill it if I see one. I told the same thing to St. Francis of Asissi.
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    Jul 05, 2008 12:11 PM GMT
    What else there is more to say is that, as a people, we need to be paying more attention.

    JustHowStupidAreWe.jpg
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    Jul 05, 2008 12:11 PM GMT
    KissingPro saidI STILL will step on a cockaroach or a scorpion to kill it if I see one. I told the same thing to St. Francis of Asissi.
    And yet they keep on comin' back for more! icon_eek.gif We all get stepped on by someone. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jul 05, 2008 12:54 PM GMT
    Why is it that the quacks of a century ago are exhumed to befuddle the people of our more modern time? Don't we have enough charlatans of our own?

    I miss the Psychic Friends Network.
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    Jul 05, 2008 1:07 PM GMT
    Just a note to say HAPPY JULY 4th to all U.S.A. RJ members.icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jul 05, 2008 1:12 PM GMT
    jprichva saidWhy is it that the quacks of a century ago are exhumed to befuddle the people of our more modern time? Don't we have enough charlatans of our own?

    I miss the Psychic Friends Network.


    Is that gone? I leave the U S of A and it all goes to hell-in-a-hand-basket (what is a hand basket? Is that what TommyGuns describes as his personal joy on his most-amusing profile?)
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    Jul 05, 2008 4:37 PM GMT
    jprichva saidWhy is it that the quacks of a century ago are exhumed to befuddle the people of our more modern time? Don't we have enough charlatans of our own?

    I miss the Psychic Friends Network.
    The founding fathers were quacks?