The Rot Sets In

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    Mar 07, 2012 4:08 PM GMT
    I was recently speaking with one of our Federal MPs about the removal of OAS til age 67.
    The discussion was about many people I know that have retired and had to plan with their employer's pension admin their options in taking pension. Once done and paperwork signed off on, there is no going back.

    Often it goes like this: Take x amount of dollars til 65, then it reduces, but is made back up with CPP and OAS.

    The MP became rather happily excited and asked, "but if it doesn't affect you personally would the delay in getting OAS bother you?" appealing to what he hoped was my sense of greed, and I-got-mine.

    I said, no, that it is part of our Canadian culture to consider the plight of others and address it.
    He sounded disappointed, lol.

    He opined that such people shouldn't be retiring then til 65 and socking money away instead of counting on OAS etc. I suggested that all those people taking early retirements and taking more from company pensions til 65, then getting less, were freeing up hundreds of thousands of jobs for the younger set.

    To my astonishment he hadn't thought of that.


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    Mar 07, 2012 4:50 PM GMT
    meninlove saidTo my astonishment he hadn't thought of that.

    And *I'M* astonished that you expected a politician to think. icon_eek.gif
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    Mar 07, 2012 5:34 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    meninlove saidTo my astonishment he hadn't thought of that.

    And *I'M* astonished that you expected a politician to think. icon_eek.gif



    lol, I've met some that do. This one is representing the current Federal gov't, and his thinking was the same as statements I'd read from his superiors.

    Rather limited in scope, considering the pensions taken early also mean companies can save money with new hires at lower wages etc.

    What's ironic is our taxes are fairly high, a portion of which funds OAS and OAS has not been set aside and managed like CPP. Instead, he admitted, it had been put in 'general revenue' which means it's being spent on all kinds of things other than its intended purpose.
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    Mar 07, 2012 6:25 PM GMT
    Why doesn't it surprise me that you think that jobs and value are some zero sum game? That it's possible to have everyone employed without having to force people into retirement?

    Retirement ages are an anachronism anyway - look up how they got created and why.

    Instead of patting yourself on the back for defending some entitlement that isn't viable and was spent in generations before, what we will see is unfortunately politicians pitting those who work and those who don't - particularly since Canada's boomer generation is so pronounced.
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    Mar 07, 2012 6:33 PM GMT
    meninlove said The MP became rather happily excited and asked, "but if it doesn't affect you personally would the delay in getting OAS bother you?" appealing to what he hoped was my sense of greed, and I-got-mine.

    I said, no, that it is part of our Canadian culture to consider the plight of others and address it.
    He sounded disappointed, lol.

    Haha yay! The rest of this went over my head but I liked this part. How does an MP not realize he should (because it's his job) consider the people he serves?
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    Mar 07, 2012 6:40 PM GMT
    Oh LOL!

    "That it's possible to have everyone employed without having to force people into retirement?"

    Regrettably, Big Business doesn't agree with you. They offer early retirements to many people for several reasons. Think about that for awhile.

    Gads, you're as unknowledgeable about Canada as you are about the US.

    Here, take a read; these people are a lot smarter than you.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/theres-no-old-age-security-crisis-pbo-report-shows/article2330998/


    ...and this lady is a lot smarter than some of her peers, including her subordinate, the MP I spoke with.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/03/01/canada-budget-2012-oas_n_1314514.html


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    Mar 07, 2012 6:41 PM GMT
    SkinnyBitch said
    meninlove said The MP became rather happily excited and asked, "but if it doesn't affect you personally would the delay in getting OAS bother you?" appealing to what he hoped was my sense of greed, and I-got-mine.

    I said, no, that it is part of our Canadian culture to consider the plight of others and address it.
    He sounded disappointed, lol.

    Haha yay! The rest of this went over my head but I liked this part. How does an MP not realize he should (because it's his job) consider the people he serves?



    Because he lives in an area that is extremely well-heeled and only sees them in front of him. icon_wink.gif
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    Mar 07, 2012 9:19 PM GMT
    meninlove said Oh LOL!

    "That it's possible to have everyone employed without having to force people into retirement?"

    Regrettably, Big Business doesn't agree with you. They offer early retirements to many people for several reasons. Think about that for awhile.

    Gads, you're as unknowledgeable about Canada as you are about the US.

    Here, take a read; these people are a lot smarter than you.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/theres-no-old-age-security-crisis-pbo-report-shows/article2330998/


    ...and this lady is a lot smarter than some of her peers, including her subordinate, the MP I spoke with.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/03/01/canada-budget-2012-oas_n_1314514.html




    You're pretty much as smart as I thought you were - which is to say, not very. Sure there will be limits within specific companies as to short term resources in personnel - but this doesn't replicate everywhere or else population growth would simply mean fewer people would find work - and yet unemployment certainly hasn't risen with population growth.

    Perhaps you missed the part in the article you linked where the percentage of GDP as a result of entitlement spending will rise to 20+% from 15% within the next decade or so? No crisis?

    Not to mention from your own article - a man most definitely smarter than you:

    McGill economics professor Christopher Ragan wrote a report last year published by the Macdonald-Laurier Institute that argued Canada does face a “looming fiscal squeeze” as a result of demographics.

    That report – which was published in November, 2011, before the Harper government made its announcement on future health transfers – argued there was a need for Ottawa to either cut spending or raise new revenue if spending and taxes are to be in balance.

    “The coming demographic changes imply that achieving this balance in the future will only be possible if Canadian governments make deliberate and significant policy adjustments,” states the Ragan report, titled Canada’s Looming Fiscal Squeeze. “Ignoring this fact is a sure route back to the problems we experiences in the mid 1990s with high levels of public indebtedness.”

    Alyson Queen, a spokesperson for the Human Resources minister, insisted OAS changes are needed.

    "Government will make the changes necessary to ensure sustainability of OAS for the next generation while not affecting current recipients or those close to retirement," she said in an email.

    "By 2030, Canada will have twice as many retirees supported by half as many working Canadians. The evidence clearly shows that on its current path, Old Age Security will become unsustainable without changes. That is a dangerous course of action that puts the retirement benefits of future Canadians at risk."
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    Mar 07, 2012 10:34 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    You're pretty much as smart as I thought you were - which is to say, not very.
    So says the pompous ass knowitall. icon_lol.gif
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    Mar 07, 2012 11:12 PM GMT
    TropicalMark said
    riddler78 said
    You're pretty much as smart as I thought you were - which is to say, not very.
    So says the pompous ass knowitall. icon_lol.gif


    Er - I am just as charitable to his presumed intelligence as he is to mine but coming from you, a self avowed bigot, your comment really has no weight. Do you ever tire of your double standards?
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    Mar 08, 2012 12:29 AM GMT



    icon_lol.gif @ riddler, who can only see myopically (laurier institute). How about the rest of those articles, eh? And no that's not a question, as you probably don't understand the use of eh? in Canadian language.





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    Mar 08, 2012 3:40 AM GMT
    meninlove said
    icon_lol.gif @ riddler, who can only see myopically (laurier institute). How about the rest of those articles, eh? And no that's not a question, as you probably don't understand the use of eh? in Canadian language.


    Given that you're the one who myopically seems to believe that jobs are some zero sum game you also missed the fact that you need so many more people to support the retired if the age eligibility isn't raised. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Are you really so selective as to notice that there are a large number - possibly a majority of private economists who believe that it isn't sustainable and that the issue isn't just OAS but healthcare so that it's more important to have more people working than fewer?

    You also seem pretty ignorant of the fact that the retirement age is already an artificial construct which was set at a time when no one lived to that age anyway.
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    Mar 08, 2012 3:47 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Given that you're the one who myopically seems to believe that jobs are some zero sum game you also missed the fact that you need so many more people to support the retired if the age eligibility isn't raised.
    Then why are you wasting time here? Go get your girlfriend and start breeding.