At 58 should I start using hormones to give me better strength and vitality?

  • Pexus

    Posts: 70

    Mar 16, 2012 12:49 PM GMT
    Testosterone levels fall gradually as one gets older and I'm wondering if I'm at the age where I should use a supplement to promote my own hormone production or go for Testosterone replacement, or nothing at all? I'm not looking for bulking or to become Mr Universe, just to hold onto my body as a functioning machine as long as possible.

    I'd really like to hear from guys who have used successfully (or not) and what did or didn't work.
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    Mar 16, 2012 12:59 PM GMT
    ONLY if your Dr. prescribes that for you!icon_eek.gif
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    Mar 16, 2012 1:13 PM GMT
    No harm in getting a testosterone blood workup. The problem is that many docs outside of the cancer and HIV community aren't really up on the latest.
    There is a great book by Nelson Vergel, "Testosterone" available on Amazon that you will learn how to talk to your doc, what tests to run, etc.

    testosterone_ebook.jpg
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    Mar 16, 2012 1:23 PM GMT
    I agree with bigsmiles - there's nothing to lose by getting your hormone levels checked out - you may be low, and you may be able to do something about it.

    Many of the supplements on the market don't replace or boost your naturally occurring Testosterone, but prevent it from being rendered useless by other means.

    I have taken a number of supplements which boost the available testosterone over the last couple of years and the only one I think that made any difference was "Test Freak"

    Once you achieve a reasonable amount of muscle mass in your major muscle groups (Pecs, Quads, Glutes etc) you should find that the Testosterone production from just working those muscles may be enough to cycle off the supps permanently...

    Do get your T levels checked though - you have nothing to lose by finding that out.
  • Pexus

    Posts: 70

    Mar 16, 2012 1:33 PM GMT
    I'm actually in the odd position in that I have medical care where I'm living, something I'm trying to rectify, but it makes going for blood test impossible. I'm not in the USA, so I can't just ask for such tests and pay for them in the way that I think you can there.

    I also don't want to mess up my hormone balance, hence the checking all this out, but I did here that many docs now will consider a male menopause as a reason to prescribe.

    Thanks for the book suggestions...I'll be following them and any other suggestions people make...
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    Mar 16, 2012 4:10 PM GMT
    Pexus saidTestosterone levels fall gradually as one gets older and I'm wondering if I'm at the age where I should use a supplement to promote my own hormone production or go for Testosterone replacement, or nothing at all? I'm not looking for bulking or to become Mr Universe, just to hold onto my body as a functioning machine as long as possible.

    I'd really like to hear from guys who have used successfully (or not) and what did or didn't work.


    Your testosterone starts dropping around 28 or so.

    YOU WILL NOT LOOK LIKE MR. UNIVERSE. THINK, FIRST. You do not eat enough calories, you won't be taking enough of the testosterone, and you don't workout in the way needed to promote that level of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. Use your big head on this one.

    Testosterone is good medicine. The best outcomes come when your test is set to 1000, or higher, as has been discovered through years of working with HIV patients. Testosterone has a number of anti-aging effects and will make you have an improved sense of well being, better body fat distribution, bone density, blood pressure, muscle mass, and libido.

    You'll want to find a good doctor who is not afraid of endocrinology. A doctor who works with wasting diseases (the sickest of the sick) is a good candidate on being up to speed on the best science. If you get your test tested and you have 200 and the doctor tries to tell you that's fine get a different doctor.

    I've had a test script for many years, which we just brought up in dose the other day.

    You'll like it and it's something you can do at any time. You'll feel better, you'll look better, you'll improve your health, you'll probably live longer, and your quality of life will be better.

    At your age, getting a test script is an easy go, except with the most stubborn of doctors. Most doctors I have had take testosterone.
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    Mar 16, 2012 4:12 PM GMT
    Pexus saidI'm actually in the odd position in that I have medical care where I'm living, something I'm trying to rectify, but it makes going for blood test impossible. I'm not in the USA, so I can't just ask for such tests and pay for them in the way that I think you can there.

    I also don't want to mess up my hormone balance, hence the checking all this out, but I did here that many docs now will consider a male menopause as a reason to prescribe.

    Thanks for the book suggestions...I'll be following them and any other suggestions people make...


    Ask for a testosterone panel.

    It's called "andropause", FYI.
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    Mar 16, 2012 4:16 PM GMT
    sc69 saidI agree with bigsmiles - there's nothing to lose by getting your hormone levels checked out - you may be low, and you may be able to do something about it.

    Many of the supplements on the market don't replace or boost your naturally occurring Testosterone, but prevent it from being rendered useless by other means.

    I have taken a number of supplements which boost the available testosterone over the last couple of years and the only one I think that made any difference was "Test Freak"

    Once you achieve a reasonable amount of muscle mass in your major muscle groups (Pecs, Quads, Glutes etc) you should find that the Testosterone production from just working those muscles may be enough to cycle off the supps permanently...

    Do get your T levels checked though - you have nothing to lose by finding that out.


    Garbage talk.

    Supplements are NOT testosterone. Testosterone is testosterone. Most supplements are JUNK.

    Weight lifting DOES NOT raise your testosterone. High intensity exercise LOWERS your testosterone. In hard training athletes, testosterone level can approach ZERO. Therein lies the attraction of AAS. You'll want to study up on the this: watch the series "The Human Machine."

    Someone who is 58 almost CERTAINLY has sub optimal test levels.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 17, 2012 2:19 AM GMT
    Whore moans are great for increasing strength and vitality. icon_biggrin.gif
  • Pexus

    Posts: 70

    Mar 18, 2012 1:48 PM GMT
    I think whoar moans would be greatly appreciated right now! icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif

    or even whore moans!!! LOL
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    Mar 18, 2012 2:11 PM GMT
    For those who argue it would be unantural or an abomination or if god had intended humans to have upped test there biology would produce it. Here's something I sent to a Rjer who asked me the other day.

    Look at it this way... Biologically once you reproduce, you might as well be dead, that's why evolution never weeded cancer, neuro degeneration, diabetes or heart disease out of the population once you pass your genes onto the next generation you having the genes to out run a sabertooth tiger won't benifit the human race in the slightest.... So are unlikely to be conserved. It's the same with testosterone it's an immunosuppressant so while the benifit of being pumped full of it and able to wrestle the tiger off may seem awesome...but not if it compromises your ability to fight of an infectious disease.

    You got to remember people living beyond their 30/40's is a relatively new thing in evolutionary terms. Its just we have have medicine and technology to diagnose, treat and control infectious disease removing the evolutionary disadvantage of greater testosterone so all that's remains are the advantages to your quality of life...
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    Mar 19, 2012 2:08 PM GMT
    chuckystud said
    sc69 saidI agree with bigsmiles - there's nothing to lose by getting your hormone levels checked out - you may be low, and you may be able to do something about it.

    Many of the supplements on the market don't replace or boost your naturally occurring Testosterone, but prevent it from being rendered useless by other means.

    I have taken a number of supplements which boost the available testosterone over the last couple of years and the only one I think that made any difference was "Test Freak"

    Once you achieve a reasonable amount of muscle mass in your major muscle groups (Pecs, Quads, Glutes etc) you should find that the Testosterone production from just working those muscles may be enough to cycle off the supps permanently...

    Do get your T levels checked though - you have nothing to lose by finding that out.


    Garbage talk.

    Supplements are NOT testosterone. Testosterone is testosterone. Most supplements are JUNK.

    Weight lifting DOES NOT raise your testosterone. High intensity exercise LOWERS your testosterone. In hard training athletes, testosterone level can approach ZERO. Therein lies the attraction of AAS. You'll want to study up on the this: watch the series "The Human Machine."

    Someone who is 58 almost CERTAINLY has sub optimal test levels.


    You certainly have a compelling argument - and I'm open to what you say;-

    I've personally experienced an improvement from the use of the product I mentioned - I dont beleive it could be placebo as nothing else in my diet changed over that time- measured with blood tests over a three month period.

    I also didn't say that the supplements were Testosterone - but they are marketed as reducing the other factors that reduce it. I'm not sure if the USA is like Australia - many supplements available elsewhere are banned here.

    My personal experience has been positive - I've always been a hard gainer, but recently found my endurance and workouts have been better with supplements.

    I've spoken with other guys, and some hardcore builders in their 40s and later that are of the opinion that muscle mass did infact increase their testosterone levels..

    http://www.trulyhuge.com/weighttrainingandtestosterone.htm is one of many pages I've found in the past that seem to support that notion.

    I'll try find the series you mention, it sounds like a good resource.

    Agreed that someone who is 58 almost certainly has a lower Test level - I'd be surprised if he didn't.
  • Pexus

    Posts: 70

    Mar 19, 2012 2:21 PM GMT
    MsclDrew said

    Look at it this way... Biologically once you reproduce, you might as well be dead, that's why evolution never weeded cancer, neuro degeneration, diabetes or heart disease out of the population once you pass your genes onto the next generation you having the genes to out run a sabertooth tiger won't benifit the human race in the slightest....

    Actually it does, as you provide a function of protection of the species by having those abilities.


    You got to remember people living beyond their 30/40's is a relatively new thing in evolutionary terms.

    Actually it's not, many in history lived long lives but at the expense of large numbers who succumbed to diseases that were external to their genetic make up.

    I don't understand what this has to do with wanting to lived a life that is prime rather than allow the lowering of one hormone to limit my growth. Other areas of the body continue to grow, even in the early stages after death. Genetics is just one part of the whole picture, environment and our abilities to enhance ourselves are also part of that whole.
  • Pexus

    Posts: 70

    Mar 19, 2012 2:26 PM GMT
    I've just realised that one of my earlier statements was missing a vital word...I DON"T have medical care where I live. I moved from the UK to France and my health assurance has run out. That means I don't have access to expensive tests etc, although I will be consulting a doctor next week to get a note that will allow me to join the gym here and to run in a half marathon in May!
  • neosyllogy

    Posts: 1714

    Mar 19, 2012 2:30 PM GMT
    Yes.
    I'd shop for a gung-ho physician. Different docs feelings about this differ wildly. The effects can be huge on happiness and well-being though. (I haven't done it, just read up on it.)
  • Pexus

    Posts: 70

    Mar 19, 2012 2:44 PM GMT
    The doctor I'm seeing is an American practising in France so I will ask him his opinion about it.

    I reckon if we had a clear menopause like women, unlike the psychological and with smaller noticeable changes, physiological one we do have i'm sure that we would have access to HRT without any problem....
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    Mar 19, 2012 2:58 PM GMT
    Pexus saidThe doctor I'm seeing is an American practising in France so I will ask him his opinion about it.

    I reckon if we had a clear menopause like women, unlike the psychological and with smaller noticeable changes, physiological one we do have i'm sure that we would have access to HRT without any problem....

    I was diagnosed with low testosterone a few years ago. A normal part of the male aging process, as you note, but it was already causing muscle mass loss, weight gain and bone loss, not good things. So I was put on testosterone gels, like Testim.

    Did little good on me for all their side effects, but other men do better with them. Now I'm having my testosterone deliberately suppressed with Lupron injections, because of my prostate cancer. When those end (if I don't myself first) I'll have to revisit the issue of boosting my testosterone back up to normal levels.

    Not sure how your doctors there will view it, but the reason I was put on testosterone replacement therapy (before the cancer treatments) was not the low levels themselves, but rather the detectable negative results of those levels on my body and overall health. Explore that aspect with your doctors. Don't make it a matter of testosterone for testosterone's sake, or for male image issues, but rather for the harm being done to your body, like the bone loss I've experienced. Developing specific related medical problems might meet the criteria for receiving testosterone replacement therapy.
  • Pexus

    Posts: 70

    Mar 19, 2012 3:14 PM GMT
    Thanks for the advice Art_deco. I will do just that, the only problem is that I don't have any of those degenerative signs, although the bf does keep pointing out that I'm 7 kilos lower than when I met him. That's not such bad thing as I was a little over weight around the middle, but I do have less muscle and can feel some of the fat growing back. My profile pic was taken when I was at my best which was this time last year.
  • Pexus

    Posts: 70

    May 07, 2012 7:53 AM GMT
    While I'm not expecting a diet sheet, it would be great if you could suggest what I could eat to help...
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    May 07, 2012 12:12 PM GMT
    Your right much more.... Your body uses cholesterol to make testosterone. So, if you're cholesterol is up your T must be way down. Unless you're taking meds and then this theory is void.
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    May 07, 2012 12:40 PM GMT
    Pexus saidWhile I'm not expecting a diet sheet, it would be great if you could suggest what I could eat to help...


    Go find a young registered dietitian. We have way better health and wellness training than older ones. It is a much more evidence-based profession now.

    Doctors just want to make a buck off the rich baby boomers with bigpharma kickback.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    May 07, 2012 12:49 PM GMT
    I would encourage you not to do anything like this unless you have reviewed the "pros" and "cons" of such actions. Too many people focus on the
    "quick positive results" instead of a responsible review of all. I wouldn't rely on the opinion of one doctor, but get 3 or 4 opinions. Be thorough, you are talking about your health.
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    May 07, 2012 1:21 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidI would encourage you not to do anything like this unless you have reviewed the "pros" and "cons" of such actions. Too many people focus on the
    "quick positive results" instead of a responsible review of all. I wouldn't rely on the opinion of one doctor, but get 3 or 4 opinions. Be thorough, you are talking about your health.


    Great Advice

    The Mayo Clinic's web page reports the following side effects of testosterone replacement

    Contribute to sleep apnea — a potentially serious sleep disorder in which breathing repeatedly stops and starts
    Cause your body to make too many red blood cells (polycythemia), which can increase the risk of heart disease
    Cause acne or other skin reactions
    Stimulate noncancerous growth of the prostate (benign prostatic hyperplasia) and possibly stimulate growth of existing prostate cancer
    Enlarge breasts
    Limit sperm production or cause testicle shrinkage

    You need to determine if the benefits outweigh the risks
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    May 07, 2012 1:43 PM GMT
    And you should keep in mind that HRT could end up being a lifetime commitment. Educate yourself before discussing this with your doctors. There are different types of test out there (injectable, gel, creams, patches) and the costs can vary widely. Weigh the pros and cons of benefits, side effects, cost of treatment, type of administration, etc.

    It is not a bad idea to see what your hormone levels. At the least, if you decide that hormone treatment is not for you at this time, you will have some numbers to compare future tests to.
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    May 07, 2012 1:56 PM GMT
    FirstKnight said
    HndsmKansan saidI would encourage you not to do anything like this unless you have reviewed the "pros" and "cons" of such actions. Too many people focus on the
    "quick positive results" instead of a responsible review of all. I wouldn't rely on the opinion of one doctor, but get 3 or 4 opinions. Be thorough, you are talking about your health.


    Great Advice

    The Mayo Clinic's web page reports the following side effects of testosterone replacement

    Contribute to sleep apnea — a potentially serious sleep disorder in which breathing repeatedly stops and starts
    Cause your body to make too many red blood cells (polycythemia), which can increase the risk of heart disease
    Cause acne or other skin reactions
    Stimulate noncancerous growth of the prostate (benign prostatic hyperplasia) and possibly stimulate growth of existing prostate cancer
    Enlarge breasts
    Limit sperm production or cause testicle shrinkage

    You need to determine if the benefits outweigh the risks

    Yeah and as amedical prof I will tell you taht's a load of scare tatactic crap. Those are the kind of side effects you get if you take a supra-physiological dose of testosterone. Plus, if you, or any other lay person actualy read the side effect profiles of any drug---even Amoxicillian---you'd never want to take it; though most SE's occur in less tahn 5% of all users.

    Always rmemeber in the backward polotically operative USA, testosterone was villified by Congress in 1989 against the advice of the American Medical ssociation, the DEA and the FDA and with complete LACK of any supporting medical evidence as no actual studes ahd been done at the time. The first, in 1996's New England Journal of Medicine, did not support the government's position and the bulk of the research since then follows suit. Read "Built to Survive" and "Legal Muscle" and see "Bigger Stronger Faster (Is it still cheating if everyone is doing it?). Those three sources will give you an excellent foundation in the testosterone wars that go on the USA. And know that ALL medical webistes like Mayo essentailyl follow the governement's fautly position and list half truths as scare tactics.