What if Jesus was fake?

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    Mar 16, 2012 10:22 PM GMT
    There's extrinsic historical evidence that supports the existence of the man named Jesus, so I'm not supposing what if he didn't exist historically.

    What if...somewhere in the desert, a text were found, signed by Jesus, and completely authenticated by every single expert in the world to have been irrefutably written by Jesus..however, the text was a confession that went something like "I am so sorry, I conned so many people into believing I was the son of god, it's a lie that got completely out of hand".

    What are the moral and ethical responsibilities and repercusions? I'm sure a great deal of people would be like "this text changes nothing to what religion gives me daily". But are there any moral obligations to act and change when the foundation of something so powerful is completely shattered?

    Even if something is completely sustainable, is it right to dismiss it was built on a lie if it were irrefutably proved?

    note: This is a total WHAT IF thread guys, and it has more to do with the ethical and moral responsibilities of how to act when lies are discovered at the foundation of something, it's not really so much about Christianity itself.
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    Mar 16, 2012 10:42 PM GMT
    Most christians would say that it was a con-artist who wrote that note.
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    Mar 16, 2012 10:58 PM GMT
    Jesus was Jewish. He'd have had his confession notarized.
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    Mar 17, 2012 12:03 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidSince Jesus never signed anything nor is anything he might have wrote ever been discovered, there is no possible way for even any one expert to prove it was Jesus who wrote it. Besides were there others with the name of Yeshewa back then? Besides .. what of all the eye witness accounts such as feed 10k with two fish and a loaf of bread (or what ever the count was). Any caterer would have bragged about feeding that many people if he had supplied the food.


    Really glad you understood that the point of the thread was to discuss the overarching ethics associated with institutions based on foundations of deceit and not the specific topic of my hypothetical what if in Christianity.
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    Mar 17, 2012 12:11 AM GMT
    I dunno, maybe get the Bible revised or something. That would bring down some religions entirely.
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    Mar 17, 2012 12:23 AM GMT
    JPtheBITCH saidSo, you mean like what if Jesus' profile actually had some other dude's pictures on it? Is that what you're asking?


    HE TOTALLY TOOK THEM OFF GOOGLE FROM HOTMESSIAHGUYS.COM
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    Mar 17, 2012 12:23 AM GMT
    JPtheBITCH saidSo, you mean like what if Jesus' profile actually had some other dude's pictures on it? Is that what you're asking?


    LOL, referencing the Profile Hunter...
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    Mar 17, 2012 12:33 AM GMT
    Lying Jews.
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    Mar 17, 2012 12:36 AM GMT
    If Jesus was a fraud there would probably be a boom in psychiatric and psychological services.

    Whether or not the Bible is real... empathy is real, kindness is real, humility is real, and integrity is real. Religion or faith are horrible reasons for being a decent human being.
  • Timbales

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    Mar 17, 2012 12:37 AM GMT
    Jesus? The guy in shipping and receiving?
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    Mar 17, 2012 12:37 AM GMT
    Timbales saidJesus? The guy in shipping and receiving?


    HAYZEUS
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    Mar 17, 2012 12:38 AM GMT
    TijpD.jpg

    But I'm keeping with the thread:

    Methinks the Vatican would go into overtime to protect its revenue streams and come up with a way to refute any such document as a fraud, despite the testimony of expert witnesses.
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    Mar 17, 2012 12:41 AM GMT
    I dont mind if hes fake at all.. its still a cool story bro.. and he's still my hero.. I don't need him to be real.. like Santa Clause..
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    Mar 17, 2012 12:42 AM GMT
    AlphaTrigger saidTijpD.jpg



    I can't even get a gust going, I'm bad at this =(
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    Mar 17, 2012 12:42 AM GMT
    All the evidence in the world could not change the mind of a true believer in creationism. It is not a matter of evidence.

    If it could be proven that Christianity is false, there would still be believers. This has been studied a lot actually. People rarely change or alter their core beliefs.
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    Mar 17, 2012 12:52 AM GMT
    Beside the topic but that 'son of god' labeling came only decades if not centuries after his 'death'. So, the messiah is safe and the message too. I believe the message would survive, even if Catholicism had to abandon their key cheerleader.
  • Timbales

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    Mar 17, 2012 12:53 AM GMT
    Ariodante said
    Timbales saidJesus? The guy in shipping and receiving?


    HAYZEUS


    he's got a tight little ass, I hope he's not fake
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    Mar 17, 2012 12:55 AM GMT
    This is interesting. I've done the same thought experiment with God. If there was some way of definitively proving that there was no God to a believer, would they change behavior? How? I've often thought that my religious friends who do wonderful things to help people in the name of god would STILL do the same wonderful things tomorrow if there was no god!
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    Mar 17, 2012 12:58 AM GMT
    Along the same lines, I have this challenge for believers: come up with a scenario that would convince you there was NO god. It's easy to come up with scenarios that would convince an atheist like me that there IS a god (he'd have to show up, perform a miracle, do something clearly and unequivocally supernatural, heck, just manifest an angel in my room to say hi or strike me dead or something). What, believers, would convince you that there was no God, or that Jesus was not his son? If the answer is "absolutely nothing" I would posit that your belief is meaningless because there is nothing in reality that would change it!
  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    Mar 17, 2012 1:01 AM GMT
    So what if Buddha and Mohhamed were scam artists too? Religion is the most destructive force on this planet. Period. Take away religion and what are you? Accepted and free.
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    Mar 17, 2012 1:01 AM GMT
    I'd imagine that most Christians will simply choose not to believe the document in the face of overwhelming evidence supporting the contrary, as the vast majority already do with myriad other scientic truths and logically sound, scientifically coherent, widely accepted epistemological theories (e.g. evolution, God's 'miracles', age of our planet etc etc). Deeply ingrained and willful denial wields to no reason.

    I'm sure a minority of Christians would question their beliefs and feel at a loss: cue the much desperately avoided identity crisis.

    For most people I'm sure such a revelation would encourage us all to rigorously (re)examine our moral and epistemological philosophies, to decide whether what we feel to be 'right and wrong' should be dependent on the validity of a heroic historic cultural figure or not. If not, what are our morals and ethics based upon? If they truly exist/have validity independent of our subjective experience /are important at all, and if so, how so?

    If should at least encourage us all to not continue to be philosophically complacent, smug and unjustly assured. It the basis of religions were to be undeniably discredited, I believe it would encourage those of us us who seek truth to mentally evolve.

    BTW: great topic Ariodante; first one on RJ in a while that I've felt even remotely compelled to reply to!!! Kudosicon_cool.gif



    (typing on my phone, so any typos: tough sh** peeps. That is all)
  • LJay

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    Mar 17, 2012 1:01 AM GMT
    Well, to begin with that piece of toast would be worthless.
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    Mar 17, 2012 1:17 AM GMT
    barriehomeboy saidSo what if Buddha and Mohhamed were scam artists too? Religion is the most destructive force on this planet. Period. Take away religion and what are you? Accepted and free.


    Actually, Buddha was not the founder of any religion. His philosophy was conflated with cultural and religious traditions in the area to form a religious Buddhism, but the reality is that Buddhism is and has been an exploration of human psychology.
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    Mar 17, 2012 1:21 AM GMT
    Ariodante said
    Timbales saidJesus? The guy in shipping and receiving?


    HAYZEUS



    facebook_jesus.png
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    Mar 17, 2012 1:24 AM GMT
    I wonder about Jesus' identity too. What of the 1,000 names of Jesus, in a time when the commoners only kept oral reports? Did he suddenly become every hero/saint that cool story passed down from generation to generation, and bested the others in of his own generation by absorbing their stories to his credit by popularity alone? A lot of what people's faith in him, then and now, is based on he saying, and I paraphrase, "I'm that guy!"