OBAMA

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    Jul 10, 2008 3:18 PM GMT
    So, I feel that I will probably get a horrible backlash because of this, but I just have to say something.

    Does anyone else feel a little worried about how much of an "icon" Barak Obama has become? I mean, I guess I can only speak from personal experience with members of my age bracket, but from what I've seen, people I talk to (as well as the media) refer to him as if he is some saint here to save the world. He becomes looked at less for his history and policy and more because he is young and "hip". I see pictures and video of him and the way people react towards him and can't help but be reminded of something close to that of Beatle-mania or something.

    Does this worry or raise concern for anyone else? Perhaps you are an Obama supporter and are sick and tired of seeing him praised for his looks and charisma instead of his credentials and track record?


    I don't know. I usually hate political discussion, but this has been bothering me for quite a while now. Any thoughts?






    Oh and I'm not here to criticise anyone elses political viewpoint. We all have our own background and beliefs and should respect eachother.
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    Jul 10, 2008 3:44 PM GMT
    Wow, you did take a step in to something, mate! LOL

    ...and I guess I will to
    I agree with your stance - I'm not judging anyones personal political views here.

    Let's agree, we all are wanting and our government [for the people] is longer over due for - CHANGE
    and needs to get back on track.

    With regard to Obama, I'd like to hear less of his "pretty words" and more about a "PLAN".

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    Jul 10, 2008 3:46 PM GMT
    http://obamamessiah.blogspot.com/
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    Jul 10, 2008 3:52 PM GMT
    maybe you guys should stop waiting for the news media to spoon fed you his policy views and do some research on your own. As a former Hillary supporter I criticized obama doting the primarys for talking a lot but not saying anything. After he got the nomination, I took it upon myself to read his book, look at his record and read up on his stances. I realize now that what you perceve as a lack of a plan for moving forward really is his reality that without all parts working n concert no plan is worth the paper its written on.

    What Obama wants to do is bring us all to the table and move us forward in a direction that is good for all members of society. He will be the first to tell you that he doesn't have all the answers, but what he can and will do is bring all the people to the table and make deciosions based on the outcomes of those round tables. This is truely representative government at its best. We ALL get a say so in what happens instead of a select few tellng us what's goingbto happen.
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:17 PM GMT
    Ok, I know that I may end up upsetting some with this response, however, I am going to speak my mind. I agree that Obama has become the "Golden Boy." Loved by the media and labeled by some as the next great hope for America, but I wonder why that is? What are his plans, beliefs, etc.? To me there is too much about him that is not "out." I wonder if he is just being given a pass on many things because he has the possibility of being the first African American president. Since we all want equality in our country for everyone (including the LGBT community), maybe we are suppoting him without all the facts. I have been somewhat of a sideline supporter of his but men I'm from Missouri: "Show Me!" Give me the meat and potatoes! Give me the facts! I consider myself an independent voter and have no party affiliation so if he wants my vote, he had better convince me that he is good for the people, ALL the people, and is not one of those politics as usual kind of guys.
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:22 PM GMT
    Yes Obama's star power and charisma is a bit disconcerting, but that does not preclude him from making a good President. The other choice is John McCain and the Republicans. I personally think Senator McCain is an able politician and leader, but if I was voting I would be worried about some of the Republicans that are still hanging around from the Bush years.

    Once Barack Obama lays out his policy platform in detail then voters can decide if they want to have him as President. Franklin D. Roosevelt was charismatic, as was John F. Kennedy, and neither was a disaster as President.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Jul 10, 2008 4:25 PM GMT
    Slowly but surely, Obama is beginning to show some true colors, and as the campaign gets more heated in the coming months and into the fall, I do believe America will get a clearer picture of him and start to zero in a bit more on the plusses and minuses of him becoming President Obama. I think there will definitely be some surprises to come, and that the race will probably be a whole lot closer than anyone currently thinks.
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:30 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidSlowly but surely, Obama is beginning to show some true colors, and as the campaign gets more heated in the coming months and into the fall, I do believe America will get a clearer picture of him and start to zero in a bit more on the plusses and minuses of him becoming President Obama. I think there will definitely be some surprises to come, and that the race will probably be a whole lot closer than anyone currently thinks.


    I TOTALLY agree!!! So, let's just sit back and watch it ALL unfold!!
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:30 PM GMT
    I personally think McCain may pull it off in November. Partially depends on who he picks for VP (Romney seems to be the logical choice). I was a bit disappointed that Senator McCain said the budget would be balanced after his four years. He must have some very optimistic views on economic growth and future costs. Especially since he is also saying that the USA will not leave Iraq until it is truly able to stand on its' own.

    Senator Obama still has not picked his VP, any news on who the frontrunner is now?
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:32 PM GMT
    Obama has laid out his policy plans which are available on his website at www.barackobama.com. And out of fairness, you may also visit John McCain's website at www.johnmccain.com.

    How can anyone expect a political candidate to explain their policy plans in a 30 second ad, or for that matter, in a 90 minute debate? Would you watch a two hour documentary where Obama lays out his entire platform on every issue? Of course you wouldn't nor would the average American voter.

    Besides, we'd all get really bored. That's why Gore lost in 2000 - he bored the American people trying to go into detail with every single policy stance. (And don't start about how Florida was rigged. If he had just won his home state of Tennessee, he'd be President right now).

    As for his charisma, I agree, it can be a bit worrisome. However, both candidates have policy positions, they've discussed them in many different venues. But since we live in an error of 30 second soundbites, no one is going to hear it.

    Now, tell me, have you heard anything about McCain's policy stances?
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:33 PM GMT
    I was a very strong Clinton supporter and still am. I know she triangulated and was all brass knuckles and gained the enmity of the entire left blogosphere. But she had done a lot of good stuff in the Senate, was clearly policy oriented and I knew what I was getting. I was ok with her being A Washington Politician because I knew that 9 times out of 10 she was on my side.

    I never felt that with Obama. Talk about contrived-- to go on about change for over a year and not say anything in terms of specific policy goals.

    Living in New York, I take it for granted that New York State will go blue so I'm planning to write in Hillary's name-- since I expect Obama will carry it anyway. Watching how Obama has shifted positions on important progressive issues in the past few days, I cannot help but say to all the smug Obamatons who derided Clinton supporters for aligning ourselves with a politician instead of a saint:

    I TOLD YOU SO.

    For all the people that believed the hype-- that Obama was magic and rainbows and was going to change EVERYTHING-- I told you so.

    He's just a politician, triangulating like all the others, to get elected. And if it means allowing telecom companies off the hook, supporting gun nuts, and shifting away from ending the war in Iraq, then he's gonna do it.

    Hillary was wrong about one thing, though: Obama's not Change You Can Xerox.

    He's Change Until It Stops Being Politically Expedient.
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:33 PM GMT
    If Bush hadn't f*cked things up so much, people wouldn't be so desperate for a "saint" or "savior" to come in and fix things. This is what it all has come to.

    In other words, it's not very much Obama's fault. It is rather the general "stop the bleeding" feeling this country identifies with.

    Unfortunately for McCain, he's aligned himself too often with that which were all trying to leave in our rear-view mirror (namely, Bush & Co. and their Nixonian-era political manipulation resulting in war, infringements on our rights, executive office power grabbing, staggering debt, raping the education system, marginalizing gays, environmental policy atrocities, wealth-grabbing oil market manipulation, etc. etc. etc.).

    As a side, I was thinking about the Who song "We Won't Get Fooled Again" which I believe came out during the Nixon administration. I wish people had remembered that song, or that newer voters read their history books, because they fooled us again. Twice.
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:34 PM GMT
    and I keep thinking while everyone posts about waiting to get information about a john Mayer song. It really applies to the generations represented by the age of technology.

    "And when you trust your television
    what you see is what you got,
    cause when they own the information, oh
    they can bend it all they want."
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:34 PM GMT
    JBE60 said

    Senator Obama still has not picked his VP, any news on who the frontrunner is now?


    And neither has McCain.
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:36 PM GMT
    bigbluefanindc said[quote][cite]JBE60 said[/cite]

    Senator Obama still has not picked his VP, any news on who the frontrunner is now?


    And neither has McCain. [/quote]

    I know, I really am more concerned about the Democratic pick since that is who I am rooting for in November.
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:38 PM GMT
    jjdayz saidmaybe you guys should stop waiting for the news media to spoon fed you his policy views and do some research on your own. As a former Hillary supporter I criticized obama doting the primarys for talking a lot but not saying anything. After he got the nomination, I took it upon myself to read his book, look at his record and read up on his stances. I realize now that what you perceve as a lack of a plan for moving forward really is his reality that without all parts working n concert no plan is worth the paper its written on.

    What Obama wants to do is bring us all to the table and move us forward in a direction that is good for all members of society. He will be the first to tell you that he doesn't have all the answers, but what he can and will do is bring all the people to the table and make deciosions based on the outcomes of those round tables. This is truely representative government at its best. We ALL get a say so in what happens instead of a select few tellng us what's goingbto happen.


    This is simply Management 101 -- and I don't think any one would disagree with this philosophy/ideology but it's not a methodology unless it comes with a strategy/plan.

    So for me, until then --> I love it!! but, it's just pretty words.

    ...and they have been spoken before, but by those who lead without being a president or "king" and because of a plan.
    It also takes more than "bringing people together, to run a country and keep it sound, economically, financially and driven towards growth, while strong enough to derail forces that would love to cause it's demise. And those are the elements that for me, Obama has not proven (as yet) he has the ability to do.
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:42 PM GMT
    I have been an Obama supporter and volunteer since December and I have to say I found it a little disturbing myself. Not so much that he has charisma, but that his star power affected me, and I like to stay as policy focused as possible when it comes to giving my support.

    But none of this worries me. What initially attracted me to him was not his good looks or oratory, but his policy.
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:42 PM GMT
    I think the icon meme is a media narrative; it is not how I would characterize his candidacy.

    I think the media characterizations of Obama have held little substance. I think they've spent more bandwidth on the spectacle, and thus I no longer rely on them for a candidate's positions. His website, book, and his voting record are far more telling about his true positions.

    I almost never see the "liberal media" talk with any substance about McCain either, who appears to be able to do no wrong.
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:43 PM GMT
    My friend jeff honestly believes Obama is the Anti Christ, as he has all or most of the qualities given to the anti christ in the bible, or so he says.

    haha but oh well, Obama is the man!

    OBAMA COUNTRY! icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:45 PM GMT
    BodyWork4 said[quote][cite]

    This is simply Management 101 -- and I don't think any one would disagree with this philosophy/ideology but it's not a methodology unless it comes with a strategy/plan.

    So for me, until then --> I love it!! but, it's just pretty words.

    ...and they have been spoken before, but by those who lead without being a president or "king" and because of a plan.
    It also takes more than "bringing people together, to run a country and keep it sound, economically, financially and driven towards growth, while strong enough to derail forces that would love to cause it's demise. And those are the elements that for me, Obama has not proven (as yet) he has the ability to do.


    Point taken. However, what has McCain done to prove he is capable of doing the same? You mention sound, economically, financially and driven towards growth. That's not what we've had in the last 7 years.
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:48 PM GMT
    BodyWork4 said[quote][cite]jjdayz said[/cite]maybe you guys should stop waiting for the news media to spoon fed you his policy views and do some research on your own. As a former Hillary supporter I criticized obama doting the primarys for talking a lot but not saying anything. After he got the nomination, I took it upon myself to read his book, look at his record and read up on his stances. I realize now that what you perceve as a lack of a plan for moving forward really is his reality that without all parts working n concert no plan is worth the paper its written on.

    What Obama wants to do is bring us all to the table and move us forward in a direction that is good for all members of society. He will be the first to tell you that he doesn't have all the answers, but what he can and will do is bring all the people to the table and make deciosions based on the outcomes of those round tables. This is truely representative government at its best. We ALL get a say so in what happens instead of a select few tellng us what's goingbto happen.


    This is simply Management 101 -- and I don't think any one would disagree with this philosophy/ideology but it's not a methodology unless it comes with a strategy/plan.

    So for me, until then --> I love it!! but, it's just pretty words.

    ...and they have been spoken before, but by those who lead without being a president or "king" and because of a plan.
    It also takes more than "bringing people together, to run a country and keep it sound, economically, financially and driven towards growth, while strong enough to derail forces that would love to cause it's demise. And those are the elements that for me, Obama has not proven (as yet) he has the ability to do.
    [/quote]

    So what you're saying is that until someone else convinces you to support a candidate you aren't going to support him. Why won't you take the time to look for yourself to see what his policies are?
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:49 PM GMT
    mickeytopogigio saidI think the icon meme is a media narrative; it is not how I would characterize his candidacy.

    I think the media characterizations of Obama have held little substance. I think they've spent more bandwidth on the spectacle, and thus I no longer rely on them for a candidate's positions. His website, book, and his voting record are far more telling about his true positions.

    I almost never see the "liberal media" talk with any substance about McCain either, who appears to be able to do no wrong.


    I agree. The Obama haters seem to simply take all they are fed via TV and assume that's all there is to Obama. Voters in this country are too friggin' lazy to actually read about where someone stands on policy issues from their own words.

    The guy is an inspiring leader, and just enough of a good tactician. This country needs inspiration rather than more excuses to fight with one another, which is the oldest GOP (and fascist) trick in the book.

    Luckily, an administration is more than one person, and other tacticians will be hired by Obama to round out a very effective group.

    The USA is ready to move ahead. Obama is ready to move ahead. McCain isn't. This is an easy decision for me.
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:50 PM GMT
    bigbluefanindc said

    Point taken. However, what has McCain done to prove he is capable of doing the same? You mention sound, economically, financially and driven towards growth. That's not what we've had in the last 7 years.


    The problem is one of perception. I agree that McCain is the least desirable of the two candidates and hasn't really done anything to prove his managerial abilities. But McCain has a long track record and the established image of being a 'war hero', for whatever that's worth.

    Obama's seismic shifts on major progressive issues looks like a matter of political expediency-- saying he woud filibuster the FISA capitulation, then voting to close debate and voting for the bill. When his whole brand is 'New Politics' and saying that he's not that kind of politician, it creates a problem for him that McCain doesn't have to the same extent-- largely because McCain has been around and is remembered for supporting things like campaign finance reform. Obama is a newbie on the national scene.

    All these shifts are certain to effect his 'icon' status. And that's the problem with nominating an icon-- because as long as you're liked, it's fine. But the fall from grace is steep and punishing-- and could cost Democrats a victory in the fall they would have good few excuses for.
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:51 PM GMT
    jjdayz said[quote][cite]BodyWork4 said[/cite][quote][cite]jjdayz said[/cite]maybe you guys should stop waiting for the news media to spoon fed you his policy views and do some research on your own. As a former Hillary supporter I criticized obama doting the primarys for talking a lot but not saying anything. After he got the nomination, I took it upon myself to read his book, look at his record and read up on his stances. I realize now that what you perceve as a lack of a plan for moving forward really is his reality that without all parts working n concert no plan is worth the paper its written on.

    What Obama wants to do is bring us all to the table and move us forward in a direction that is good for all members of society. He will be the first to tell you that he doesn't have all the answers, but what he can and will do is bring all the people to the table and make deciosions based on the outcomes of those round tables. This is truely representative government at its best. We ALL get a say so in what happens instead of a select few tellng us what's goingbto happen.


    This is simply Management 101 -- and I don't think any one would disagree with this philosophy/ideology but it's not a methodology unless it comes with a strategy/plan.

    So for me, until then --> I love it!! but, it's just pretty words.

    ...and they have been spoken before, but by those who lead without being a president or "king" and because of a plan.
    It also takes more than "bringing people together, to run a country and keep it sound, economically, financially and driven towards growth, while strong enough to derail forces that would love to cause it's demise. And those are the elements that for me, Obama has not proven (as yet) he has the ability to do.
    [/quote]

    So what you're saying is that until someone else convinces you to support a candidate you aren't going to support him. Why won't you take the time to look for yourself to see what his policies are? [/quote]

    Not what I am saying... and you're assuming I haven't.
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    Jul 10, 2008 4:56 PM GMT
    BodyWork4 saidWow, you did take a step in to something, mate! LOL

    ...and I guess I will to
    I agree with your stance - I'm not judging anyones personal political views here.

    Let's agree, we all are wanting and our government [for the people] is longer over due for - CHANGE
    and needs to get back on track.

    With regard to Obama, I'd like to hear less of his "pretty words" and more about a "PLAN".



    If thats the case then why this statement about needing to here his plan? If you know his policy stances?