HIV people who are on disability. If they are healthy, should they get welfare?

  • sportsjockla

    Posts: 498

    Mar 21, 2012 6:06 PM GMT
    I have a friend who has been HIV+ for about 20 years. He takes his meds and is perfectly healthy. He hasn't been sick since his first diagnosis. He is collecting disability even though he is perfectly healthy. He says he doesn't want to work in an office and would rather collect free money. I told him this is dead wrong. I'm paying taxes and paying for him being lazy. Do you agree?
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    Mar 21, 2012 6:36 PM GMT
    regardless of what kind of social program it is, there will always be people who abuse the system. The real question is at what point does the harm the abusers cause outweigh the benefit to society that programs like that create.
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    Mar 21, 2012 6:43 PM GMT
    I have to say yes as in Oz we have little tolerance for people who abuse the kindness of the taxpayer. Albeit one of our biggest weakness like the UK, is that we are way to kind. Just because he has HIV does not mean he should have a right to bleed the system.
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    Mar 21, 2012 6:45 PM GMT
    Yes, I agree with you. It's something low-lifes do.
  • Import

    Posts: 7190

    Mar 21, 2012 6:50 PM GMT
    um, he sounds like a total scum bag. HIV, for him was a ticket to free money and a life of leisure and pill cocktails./


    i think they should pull his benefits and get out and work like the rest of us. I didn't force him to spread his asshole and contract HIV....why am I paying for his actions?

    fuck that
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    Mar 21, 2012 6:54 PM GMT
    If he's not sick, and doesn't need to be on disability, then he's taking advantage of the system. His method just sounds like he's using his HIV status which imo, has nothing to do with HIV at all. Just that he's a mooch and doesnt mind taking money out of a system people rely on.
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    Mar 21, 2012 6:56 PM GMT
    The fleecing of America!
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    Mar 21, 2012 6:56 PM GMT
    Import saidum, he sounds like a total scum bag. HIV, for him was a ticket to free money and a life of leisure and pill cocktails./


    i think they should pull his benefits and get out and work like the rest of us. I didn't force him to spread his asshole and contract HIV....why am I paying for his actions?

    fuck that


    You don't know how he got HIV and its irrelevant
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    Mar 21, 2012 7:26 PM GMT
    I agree, your friend is a lazy piece of shit
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    Mar 21, 2012 7:31 PM GMT
    sportsjockla saidI have a friend who has been HIV+ for about 20 years. He takes his meds and is perfectly healthy. He hasn't been sick since his first diagnosis. He is collecting disability even though he is perfectly healthy. He says he doesn't want to work in an office and would rather collect free money. I told him this is dead wrong. I'm paying taxes and paying for him being lazy. Do you agree?


    OK, how close are you with this friend? Maybe he isn't as healthy as he seems, and has a condition that is embarrassing to talk about... and he'd rather cover it up with a lie that makes him look like a douche rather than weak.

    If not... well, then it's reprehensible. Sitting back when you could do for yourself is douchery unparalled. Actually, that gives an undeserved bad name to douching, which is actually a considerate thing to do for someone who wants to plow your ass! icon_twisted.gif
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    Mar 21, 2012 7:35 PM GMT
    the unfortunate part is that these federal programs allow for the abuse. he should be required to provide proof of an actual inability to work.
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    Mar 21, 2012 7:37 PM GMT
    If they are healthy and capable, then no. On the other hand, if he wasn't able to work, much less get around, then I wouldn't have any issue. But since he can, he needs to get off his ass and work like the rest of the world.

    He's making a mockery of HIV positive individuals who truly cannot work or provide for themselves, just like women who have more children to collect welfare and people who hurt themselves on purpose to collect worker's compensation.

    There are days I don't want to go to work either and would rather get free money but life doesn't work that way for those of us living in a place called reality.
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    Mar 21, 2012 7:40 PM GMT
    I was pressured to get on AHCCCS/Stamps by brother when I lived in AZ, and felt so good to get off of them when I moved here. Sure, there was a combined total 1.5 year period when I couldn't find work, and it made some sense, but after getting work it was pointless and I hated the idea of providing stamps for my brother's spending in AZ. I intentionally didn't renew before I left so he wouldn't benefit from it any longer.
    Sure, I got Petit epilepsy, but I don't drive or operate heavy machinery. As soon as my work allows me access to their insurance I'll take care of that. In the meanwhile, I'd rather work for my money!
    Sorry your friend is a moocher. Hope you don't lose more than you gain from that relationship.
  • BmwKid92

    Posts: 1097

    Mar 21, 2012 7:43 PM GMT
    Import saidum, he sounds like a total scum bag. HIV, for him was a ticket to free money and a life of leisure and pill cocktails./


    i think they should pull his benefits and get out and work like the rest of us. I didn't force him to spread his asshole and contract HIV....why am I paying for his actions?

    fuck that


    +1
  • metta

    Posts: 39134

    Mar 21, 2012 7:44 PM GMT
    Hitm4up saidregardless of what kind of social program it is, there will always be people who abuse the system. The real question is at what point does the harm the abusers cause outweigh the benefit to society that programs like that create.


    +1

    i would totally support a plan to get people off that don't need it as long as it makes financial sense to do so and it does not harm the people that really need it. I don't know how far the government goes to find out why a doctor says a particular patient cannot work. I would hope that it is stated clearly for legitimate reasons for a specific period of time. I also do realize that there are people on permanent disability who really need to be. Should we do something to make doctor's more accountable so that they only put people on who really need it? I'm not sure what the solution would be.

  • metta

    Posts: 39134

    Mar 21, 2012 7:50 PM GMT
    ^
    that chart does not go into the depth necessary to really answer the question.
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    Mar 21, 2012 7:51 PM GMT
    metta8 said
    i would totally support a plan to get people off that don't need it as long as it makes financial sense to do so and it does not harm the people that really need it.


    And there's the rub. Sometimes monitoring systems/fraud prevention can suck good money out of a system and NOT make financial sense.

    Where I live, the rapid transit system currently operates on a Proof-of-Payment basis. There are roving checks to catch-out people who have not paid, and they are fined; that process is a relatively small cost. BUT, because it is popular to rage at those bilking the system, they are now in the process of installing turnstiles and other security measures. At great cost. An actuarial analysis has shown that this will not recoup fares to pay for itself, ever; not even close!
  • sportsjockla

    Posts: 498

    Mar 21, 2012 7:54 PM GMT
    fagneticspermeability saidI think a person should only get disability if s/he has had illness. I'm currently on disability for having suffered two cancers (HIV related). I'm hoping I don't have another one brewing in the near future. But I know people on disability who have never had illness. They did crystal meth and lost everything and now make so much on disability that they play the stock market with the money they receive from the government. Of course, the amount they receive is contingent based on what they used to earn.


    Yes, that's interesting. He's allowed to work, but only allowed to make a certain amount of money. He looks for jobs that pay him under the table. He works harder to stay on welfare then to get off of it
  • metta

    Posts: 39134

    Mar 21, 2012 7:56 PM GMT
    intensity69 said
    metta8 said
    i would totally support a plan to get people off that don't need it as long as it makes financial sense to do so and it does not harm the people that really need it.


    And there's the rub. Sometimes monitoring systems/fraud prevention can suck good money out of a system and NOT make financial sense.

    Where I live, the rapid transit system currently operates on a Proof-of-Payment basis. There are roving checks to catch-out people who have not paid, and they are fined; that process is a relatively small cost. BUT, because it is popular to rage at those bilking the system, they are now in the process of installing turnstiles and other security measures. At great cost. An actuarial analysis has show that this will not recoup fares to pay for itself, ever; not even close!



    ^
    It sounds like it would be better to have just increased the fines so that more people would not want to take the risk of getting caught, which would also increase revenues so that they could monitor more often. Just put up a few little signs (Minimum Fine of over $1,500 without ticket)
  • gary954

    Posts: 76

    Mar 21, 2012 7:56 PM GMT
    I live in Fort Lauderdale, the land of Hiv and disability. I cannot believe how many guys are on disability here. The wierd thing is they brag about it. I guess I am the dumb one for going to work and killing myself 60 hours aweek so that I can have money and insurance. A good percentage of these guys spend several hours a day in the gym then hit the beach. You see these guys they look like pro bodybuilders. These people on disability should have their cases reviewed every couple of years, I bet they find many are able to go back to work. Love to see thier vacations over.... Just sayin.
  • BmwKid92

    Posts: 1097

    Mar 21, 2012 7:57 PM GMT
    @fag you are wrong with the taxes part, us buying gum supports you 6% of whatevers bought goes to the government.
  • metta

    Posts: 39134

    Mar 21, 2012 7:59 PM GMT
    fagneticspermeability said
    Bmwkid92 said
    Import saidum, he sounds like a total scum bag. HIV, for him was a ticket to free money and a life of leisure and pill cocktails./


    i think they should pull his benefits and get out and work like the rest of us. I didn't force him to spread his asshole and contract HIV....why am I paying for his actions?

    fuck that


    +1


    Just for your information. There are many people from Europe and other countries that come here who are perfectly capable of working, have no disease and are on receiving assistance from the government or are on disability. Many of these people wind up here because they have family here that somehow gets them into the United States. They're living off the government and didn't come to the U.S. until retirement age. I don't know how they're doing it but this does happen.

    And if you don't want to partake in paying taxes, don't work! Problem solved. I'd love to have good health and get back to work and make a good salary. Hopefully someday.


    That reminds me of an episode on HGTV that I saw this couple from the US looking to buy a home in Austria so that the husband could go to school for free, working on his Masters Degree.
  • gr8hands4you

    Posts: 117

    Mar 21, 2012 8:00 PM GMT
    There a people who will totally abuse the system and also those who wont go on any kind of disability even though they should... Many of my family suffer from a genetic disease, including me.. I also am the type of person that needs things to do and have a real purpose in life.. I also have grown sons and need to set a positive example for them... I also dont want anybody feeling sorry for me nor would I want to explain to people that I have health problems... I will always work and do volunteer work for charities... I also feel that the guy that is abusing the system should loose all his benefits for life... I know that sounds very harsh but then they are committing a felonious fraud...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 21, 2012 8:19 PM GMT
    sportsjockla saidI have a friend who has been HIV+ for about 20 years. He takes his meds and is perfectly healthy. He hasn't been sick since his first diagnosis. He is collecting disability even though he is perfectly healthy. He says he doesn't want to work in an office and would rather collect free money. I told him this is dead wrong. I'm paying taxes and paying for him being lazy. Do you agree?


    Why would you post this? You're the worst kind of friend to have. Do the guy a favor and stop being his "friend".

    Did you ever think that maybe your friend's response wasn't how he really feels about the situation? Perhaps guilt, shame and fear play a role here, but I wouldn't expect you to understand ... multi-dimensional thinking is obviously not your strong suit.

    Do you know anything about how the government used to force (and still does in many cases) HIV+ Americans without healthcare into the welfare system?

    It was about 10 years ago when I helped a dear friend of mine through our joke of a system. At the time, he didn't have health insurance, and his medical bills were so high that he couldn't afford to pay them. So, in all of its infinite wisdom, the government took everything: his house, his car, his savings. He was forced into bankruptcy and ended up quitting his job because he couldn't afford the thousands of dollars it cost him per month to pay for the meds.

    Today, he's still not working, but not because he doesn't want to; it's because he can't work. If he were to take a job, he would lose government assistance and, therefore, would be unable to afford his meds unless he were to make a minimum of $150K per year, or unless his potential employer's insurance plan covered pre-existing conditions.

    Now, stop being such a whiny little bitch and learn to ask the right questions before you go off on some ridiculous tirade about how your friend is fleecing the system.

    For what it's worth, "Obamacare" will cover everyone in similar situations, giving people without hope a reason to forge ahead and be more productive citizens.
  • carew28

    Posts: 661

    Mar 21, 2012 8:21 PM GMT
    HIV and collecting disability is a complicated situation. I imagine that the disability income includes payment for the HIV medications. If your friend is able to find work at a job that includes comprehensive health insurance, which will pay for his meds, then yes, he should be working. But if he's only able to find employment at minimum-wage jobs, with no health-insurance (which are the only jobs readily available to many folks), then working at one of those jobs may disqualify him for disability, and he'll have no way of paying for his meds. I wouldn't blame him for choosing to remain on disability if that's the situation. Hopefully, when Obamacare goes into effect, he'll be able to get public health-insurance, which should eliminate the problem.

    I myself have been working at a fulltime minimum-wage job for the past 5 years (the only job available in my area). I do have comprehensive, employer-provided health-insurance, but the premiums come to 25% of my pay, leaving me with an annual take-home pay of less than $10,000. I plan on signing up for Obamacare as soon as it goes into effect. The cost of the Obamacare premiums hopefully will be based upon annual income. I just hope that the option of choosing Obamacare will be available to everyone.