Revisiting rules for radicals: rubbing resentments, fanning hostilities, searching out controversy - Also F.A. Hayek

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    Apr 01, 2012 1:13 PM GMT
    According to Alinsky, the organizer — especially a paid organizer from outside — must first overcome suspicion and establish credibility. Next the organizer must begin the task of agitating: rubbing resentments, fanning hostilities, and searching out controversy. This is necessary to get people to participate. An organizer has to attack apathy and disturb the prevailing patterns of complacent community life where people have simply come to accept a situation. Alinsky would say, "The first step in community organization is community disorganization."

    Through a process combining hope and resentment, the organizer tries to create a "mass army" that brings in as many recruits as possible from local organizations, churches, services groups, labor unions, corner gangs, and individuals.

    According to Alinsky, the main job of the organizer is to bait an opponent into reacting. "The enemy properly goaded and guided in his reaction will be your major strength."

    -----------------------------------
    Modern addendum:

    Rubbing resentments and fanning hostilities are greatly facilitated by exploiting racial events. Anyone challenging such exploitation should be labeled "racists" themselves to deflect away from the exploitative tactics and attempt to put them on the defense.
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    Apr 01, 2012 1:24 PM GMT
    Over the next several months, we will see the left vigorously exploit every possible event to promote divisiveness to rally the Obama base and take away focus from his performance. If the Supreme Court throws out Obamacare, expect to see this even more intensely.

    Best response is not to get angry back, as that only works to their benefit. Point out their tactics and keep focus on the issues.
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    Apr 01, 2012 1:25 PM GMT
    Get the 'playbook' today !!!

    http://www.amazon.com/Rules-Radicals-Saul-Alinsky/dp/0679721134/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333286639&sr=8-1

    Actually, I did read it prior to 2008.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Apr 01, 2012 2:12 PM GMT
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    Apr 01, 2012 2:13 PM GMT
    You realize that the only people reading Alinsky are right-wingers, yes?

    I've been involved in leftist politics for more than 20 years and I never heard the name Saul Alinsky until Glenn Beck started going nuts about it.
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    Apr 01, 2012 2:17 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidYou realize that the only people reading Alinsky are right-wingers, yes?

    I've been involved in leftist politics for more than 20 years and I never heard the name Saul Alinsky until Glenn Beck started going nuts about it.

    Doesn't have to be known and read by the rank and file. In fact preferable that it not be known widely. Tactics written down are often tactics exposed. All that is important is for the leaders to manipulate the followers.
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    Apr 01, 2012 2:20 PM GMT
    JPtheBITCH said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 saidYou realize that the only people reading Alinsky are right-wingers, yes?

    I've been involved in leftist politics for more than 20 years and I never heard the name Saul Alinsky until Glenn Beck started going nuts about it.

    Doesn't have to be known and read by the rank and file. In fact preferable that it not be known widely. Tactics written down are often tactics exposed. All that is important is for the leaders to manipulate the followers.

    I'm sorry, this is hilarious.
    No one gives a crap about Saul Alinsky except right-wingers who need a bogeyman.


    Exactly.
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    Apr 01, 2012 2:42 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidYou realize that the only people reading Alinsky are right-wingers, yes?

    I've been involved in leftist politics for more than 20 years and I never heard the name Saul Alinsky until Glenn Beck started going nuts about it.


    I read it for the first time shortly after it was published for some class at OSU.
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    Apr 01, 2012 3:11 PM GMT
    Before the thread gets stale, I will offer a suggestion to all besides those hard left progressives, and that includes many who read but do not post here.

    There are a couple of books, including the one mentioned above, that I suggest to anyone who has an open mind. They explain why many of us are strongly against the hard left progressive agenda and their advocates' tactics. These books have been written years ago so the points presented are not clouded by today's controversial events and politicians. Your opinions of today's landscape won't be directly challenged, and it will be up to you to decide how relevant they are.

    You may see derogatory comments here. I suggest ignoring comments against the authors versus the content. Such comments are a cheap way to attack the content without providing any basis. I also suggest ignoring comments attacking others who advocate the books. Those are also irrelevant if you are willing to think for yourself.

    Also know that many want to rely on emotion and will discourage anyone from seeking other material and think for themselves.

    The books:
    The Road to Serfdom, F. A. Hayek
    http://www.amazon.com/The-Road-Serfdom-F-Hayek/dp/B001HWT06U/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333292738&sr=8-2

    Rules for Radicals, Saul Alinsky
    http://www.amazon.com/Rules-Radicals-Saul-Alinsky/dp/0679721134/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333292852&sr=8-1

    There are several books related to both of these applying the concepts to the modern day and countering the tactics of progressives, but to keep some distance from today's controversies, I recommend the above two as a first read.
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    Apr 02, 2012 12:38 AM GMT
    JPtheBITCH saidI've read Hayek. It's sort of on the same intellectual level with Ayn Rand, which is to say not much.

    There are those who disagree with Hayek and I would not have been surprised if you also disagreed. But your assessment of the intellectual level indicates you most certainly did not understand his writings. That is consistent with your other comments on Eastern Europe in other threads, a topic briefly addressed in the paragraphs below.

    Here are a few paragraphs from a professor teaching graduate level economics, who also refers to Milton Friedman's comments on the book. http://www.caesarrodney.org/index.cfm?ref=30200&ref2=60

    Individual Liberty vs. Government Authority By Richard Spencer, Ph.D.

    While teaching graduate level Economics in Delaware during the 90's, I used The Road to Serfdom by F.A. Hayek as a required secondary reading. Hayek was the 1974 Nobel Prize winner in Economics and a proponent of the Austrian school that free markets enhance mankind’s liberty. Every week my students were to write a one-page summary of each chapter, and to report about personal discussions they had with others. Throughout the semester the students consistently expressed their amazement that this extraordinary published work had never been brought to their attention during their undergraduate years. This was their first academic encounter with a political philosophy that established one’s individual freedom and economic freedom as being inseparable. Diminishing one diminishes the other and that became personal, very personal.

    Milton Friedman and many others surmise that The Road to Serfdom may be the most influential book of political philosophy written in the past 75 years. Its message was a revelation particularly to the young men and women who were in the armed forces during WWII. Their recent experiences with fascism and Nazism enhanced their appreciation of the value and meaning of individual freedom. They saw the horrors of socialism as not leading to a utopian State, but to a State besieged with tyranny and criminality.
    ......
    Almost all elections, including the recent U.S. presidential election, are about the redistribution of personal and business income by the State and that restricts one's liberty. The Road to Serfdom rose to new heights from a cry in the wilderness for individual freedom to now become an integral part of the philosophy and governance of the newly freed Iron Curtain countries throughout Eastern Europe. Most have overthrown past collectivist failures to become free market democracies with rapidly growing economies propelled by individuals pursuing their own economic and personal objectives.

    Unfortunately, in the current economic downturn, collectivism and coercion have reared their ugly heads once again. Altruistic ideas, alas, lead not to a better world, but misery, suffering, poverty, and the hatred of fellow man. This is because successful man, as civilization, is founded upon the philosophy of self-interest and individual rights. Civilization can endure the false promises of altruism only when they can afford them; but capitulation to charlatan ventures based upon anti-democratic platitudes leads one down an endless road that, slowly but surely, eradicates our personal and economic freedoms. That is precisely the road to serfdom.
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    Apr 02, 2012 3:07 AM GMT
    Christian73 saidYou realize that the only people reading Alinsky are right-wingers, yes?

    I've been involved in leftist politics for more than 20 years and I never heard the name Saul Alinsky until Glenn Beck started going nuts about it.


    Then you're not very informed, or aren't a devoted leftist- although it is usually the higher ups, the important people who know this stuff- and use it to string the useful idiots along; or further encourage the more informed followers, who want the twisted things the higher ups do.

    Many of the tactics done by the left today, and even a bit before my, or you time- match up 100% with the things written by Alinksy. For men like my grandfather however, who've lived through Nazi Germany- it reminds them of that. The behaviors, and actions.

    Many people on the right (not hardcore), even moderates, independents, and Libertarians- never bothered to read anything written by leftist, or for years have behaved in a "silent majority" kind of way (I personally like to know what everyone is saying and thinking). Now many of them are paying more attention, and looking at this stuff, yes largely because of Glenn Beck-but also because of what they felt and seen/see going on in this country since the end days of Bush's administration- and especially now.

    I read the book when I was 15, and in many schools today the book is a mandatory read- and some teachers (which I've seen), try to encourage the students to behave in the ways described in the book. I too have to teach it in my class, but I of course do it in a way showing the students what to look for- and what is wrong, dangerous in thinking and wanting the things radical leftist do.

    Right-wing, left-wing; they are two sides of the same coin. The men in control are twisted in what they want to ultimately do to others- who aren't like them, though today its done with a happy face. They ultimately seek to control other men, if you're ok with that- then devote your life to left-wing or right-wing ideology.

    The ones who follow them due to lies, and being weak minded- only help create disastrous events in history- then stand around wondering what happened, and how it happened- vow never to let it happen again, only to allow it to happen again, because of lies.
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    Apr 02, 2012 3:50 AM GMT
    IHG84 said
    Christian73 saidYou realize that the only people reading Alinsky are right-wingers, yes?

    I've been involved in leftist politics for more than 20 years and I never heard the name Saul Alinsky until Glenn Beck started going nuts about it.


    Then you're not very informed, or aren't a devoted leftist- although it is usually the higher ups, the important people who know this stuff- and use it to string the useful idiots along; or further encourage the more informed followers, who want the twisted things the higher ups do.


    8 paragraphs of utter bullshit that started right here. I went to a very left wing college and studied labor history along with other social movements. Yes, Alinsky was mentioned but his book was hardly required reading.

    I guess the right-wing needs a bogey man. It's also helpful to those who support the president if you're all spending your time fighting against a book that's nearly 50 years old and not being used to write any of the plays.

    Keep at it, guys! You're virtually assuring a Romney loss. (Not that he needs help.)
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Apr 02, 2012 4:10 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    I've been involved in leftist politics for more than 20 years and I never heard the name Saul Alinsky until Glenn Beck started going nuts about it.



    Well, yet another example of how you simply don't know everything...much as you like to pretend that you do. Hell, even I've heard of Saul Alinsky.
    Gabe (IHG84) great to see you posting. You always bring an interesting and informed perspective.

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    Apr 02, 2012 4:12 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    IHG84 said
    Christian73 saidYou realize that the only people reading Alinsky are right-wingers, yes?

    I've been involved in leftist politics for more than 20 years and I never heard the name Saul Alinsky until Glenn Beck started going nuts about it.


    Then you're not very informed, or aren't a devoted leftist- although it is usually the higher ups, the important people who know this stuff- and use it to string the useful idiots along; or further encourage the more informed followers, who want the twisted things the higher ups do.


    8 paragraphs of utter bullshit that started right here. I went to a very left wing college and studied labor history along with other social movements. Yes, Alinsky was mentioned but his book was hardly required reading.

    I guess the right-wing needs a bogey man. It's also helpful to those who support the president if you're all spending your time fighting against a book that's nearly 50 years old and not being used to write any of the plays.

    Keep at it, guys! You're virtually assuring a Romney loss. (Not that he needs help.)

    You are quite unhinged. What we write here does not determine whether Romney wins or loses. Read a few up what the university professor wrote, and maybe you might even learn something.
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    Apr 02, 2012 4:14 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Christian73 said
    I've been involved in leftist politics for more than 20 years and I never heard the name Saul Alinsky until Glenn Beck started going nuts about it.



    Well, yet another example of how you simply don't know everything...much as you like to pretend that you do. Hell, even I've heard of Saul Alinsky.
    Gabe (IHG84) great to see you posting. You always bring an interesting and informed perspective.

    He has become unhinged because in his attempt to sound elitist, he has shown himself to be one of the less-informed foot soldiers. IHG84 nailed him.
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    Apr 02, 2012 12:31 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Christian73 said
    I've been involved in leftist politics for more than 20 years and I never heard the name Saul Alinsky until Glenn Beck started going nuts about it.



    Well, yet another example of how you simply don't know everything...much as you like to pretend that you do. Hell, even I've heard of Saul Alinsky.
    Gabe (IHG84) great to see you posting. You always bring an interesting and informed perspective.



    Never claimed to "know everything", but what I do know - because unlike IHG84, I'm not just regurgitating what Glenn Beck tells me - is that Saul Alinsky is important to the contemporary left only in the minds of right wingers.

    Personally, I think it's great that you all believe that Obama's campaign is using "Rules for Radicals" as their playbook. You can organize against a nonexistent strategy and we'll organize against he actual Republican campaign. Then we'll see who wins.
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    Apr 02, 2012 12:36 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Christian73 said
    I've been involved in leftist politics for more than 20 years and I never heard the name Saul Alinsky until Glenn Beck started going nuts about it.



    Well, yet another example of how you simply don't know everything...much as you like to pretend that you do. Hell, even I've heard of Saul Alinsky.
    Gabe (IHG84) great to see you posting. You always bring an interesting and informed perspective.



    Never claimed to "know everything", but what I do know - because unlike IHG84, I'm not just regurgitating what Glenn Beck tells me - is that Saul Alinsky is important to the contemporary left only in the minds of right wingers.

    Personally, I think it's great that you all believe that Obama's campaign is using "Rules for Radicals" as their playbook. You can organize against a nonexistent strategy and we'll organize against he actual Republican campaign. Then we'll see who wins.

    From what I have seen, the Republican campaign will be directed against specific, actual Obama performance including promises, results, tactics, character, policies, etc. The degree to which he does or does not follow any previously published tactics will not matter.
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    Apr 02, 2012 12:39 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Christian73 said
    I've been involved in leftist politics for more than 20 years and I never heard the name Saul Alinsky until Glenn Beck started going nuts about it.



    Well, yet another example of how you simply don't know everything...much as you like to pretend that you do. Hell, even I've heard of Saul Alinsky.
    Gabe (IHG84) great to see you posting. You always bring an interesting and informed perspective.



    Never claimed to "know everything", but what I do know - because unlike IHG84, I'm not just regurgitating what Glenn Beck tells me - is that Saul Alinsky is important to the contemporary left only in the minds of right wingers.

    Personally, I think it's great that you all believe that Obama's campaign is using "Rules for Radicals" as their playbook. You can organize against a nonexistent strategy and we'll organize against he actual Republican campaign. Then we'll see who wins.

    From what I have seen, the Republican campaign will be directed against specific, actual Obama performance including promises, results, tactics, character, policies, etc. The degree to which he does or does not follow any previously published tactics will not matter.


    Well, that will be an interesting departure from what we've seen of the Republican campaign thus far, which has been based almost entirely on lies, distortions and half-truths.

    Romney's entire stump speech is a series of lies, so we'll see...
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    Apr 02, 2012 12:50 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Christian73 said
    I've been involved in leftist politics for more than 20 years and I never heard the name Saul Alinsky until Glenn Beck started going nuts about it.



    Well, yet another example of how you simply don't know everything...much as you like to pretend that you do. Hell, even I've heard of Saul Alinsky.
    Gabe (IHG84) great to see you posting. You always bring an interesting and informed perspective.



    Never claimed to "know everything", but what I do know - because unlike IHG84, I'm not just regurgitating what Glenn Beck tells me - is that Saul Alinsky is important to the contemporary left only in the minds of right wingers.

    Personally, I think it's great that you all believe that Obama's campaign is using "Rules for Radicals" as their playbook. You can organize against a nonexistent strategy and we'll organize against he actual Republican campaign. Then we'll see who wins.

    From what I have seen, the Republican campaign will be directed against specific, actual Obama performance including promises, results, tactics, character, policies, etc. The degree to which he does or does not follow any previously published tactics will not matter.


    Well, that will be an interesting departure from what we've seen of the Republican campaign thus far, which has been based almost entirely on lies, distortions and half-truths.

    Romney's entire stump speech is a series of lies, so we'll see...

    The Republican campaign has been only in its embryonic stage so far. I am sure you will find anything against Obama to be lies, etc.
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    Apr 02, 2012 12:59 PM GMT
    It's interesting that the right's critique of the left is made by projecting the power hierarchy of the right onto the left.
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    Apr 02, 2012 1:01 PM GMT
    TigerTim saidIt's interesting that the right's critique of the left is made by projecting the power hierarchy of the right onto the left.

    Could be viewed as a critique of tactics either on the left or right when getting away from the center. Tactics from the so-called far right and so-called far-left are not all that dissimilar.
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    Apr 02, 2012 1:22 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Christian73 said
    I've been involved in leftist politics for more than 20 years and I never heard the name Saul Alinsky until Glenn Beck started going nuts about it.



    Well, yet another example of how you simply don't know everything...much as you like to pretend that you do. Hell, even I've heard of Saul Alinsky.
    Gabe (IHG84) great to see you posting. You always bring an interesting and informed perspective.



    Never claimed to "know everything", but what I do know - because unlike IHG84, I'm not just regurgitating what Glenn Beck tells me - is that Saul Alinsky is important to the contemporary left only in the minds of right wingers.

    Personally, I think it's great that you all believe that Obama's campaign is using "Rules for Radicals" as their playbook. You can organize against a nonexistent strategy and we'll organize against he actual Republican campaign. Then we'll see who wins.

    From what I have seen, the Republican campaign will be directed against specific, actual Obama performance including promises, results, tactics, character, policies, etc. The degree to which he does or does not follow any previously published tactics will not matter.


    Well, that will be an interesting departure from what we've seen of the Republican campaign thus far, which has been based almost entirely on lies, distortions and half-truths.

    Romney's entire stump speech is a series of lies, so we'll see...

    The Republican campaign has been only in its embryonic stage so far. I am sure you will find anything against Obama to be lies, etc.


    Romney has been running for president for 6 years and his campaign is only in it's embryonic stages? When will it be an adult campaign? 2612?

    icon_lol.gif
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    Apr 02, 2012 1:24 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Christian73 said
    I've been involved in leftist politics for more than 20 years and I never heard the name Saul Alinsky until Glenn Beck started going nuts about it.



    Well, yet another example of how you simply don't know everything...much as you like to pretend that you do. Hell, even I've heard of Saul Alinsky.
    Gabe (IHG84) great to see you posting. You always bring an interesting and informed perspective.



    Never claimed to "know everything", but what I do know - because unlike IHG84, I'm not just regurgitating what Glenn Beck tells me - is that Saul Alinsky is important to the contemporary left only in the minds of right wingers.

    Personally, I think it's great that you all believe that Obama's campaign is using "Rules for Radicals" as their playbook. You can organize against a nonexistent strategy and we'll organize against he actual Republican campaign. Then we'll see who wins.

    From what I have seen, the Republican campaign will be directed against specific, actual Obama performance including promises, results, tactics, character, policies, etc. The degree to which he does or does not follow any previously published tactics will not matter.


    Well, that will be an interesting departure from what we've seen of the Republican campaign thus far, which has been based almost entirely on lies, distortions and half-truths.

    Romney's entire stump speech is a series of lies, so we'll see...

    The Republican campaign has been only in its embryonic stage so far. I am sure you will find anything against Obama to be lies, etc.


    Romney has been running for president for 6 years and his campaign is only in it's embryonic stages? When will it be an adult campaign? 2612?

    icon_lol.gif

    Referring to the Republican campaign, and you probably know that the Romney campaign has been focused on the primaries. Compared to what you will see in coming months, you can call today's campaigns embryonic.
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    Apr 02, 2012 1:46 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Christian73 said
    I've been involved in leftist politics for more than 20 years and I never heard the name Saul Alinsky until Glenn Beck started going nuts about it.



    Well, yet another example of how you simply don't know everything...much as you like to pretend that you do. Hell, even I've heard of Saul Alinsky.
    Gabe (IHG84) great to see you posting. You always bring an interesting and informed perspective.



    Never claimed to "know everything", but what I do know - because unlike IHG84, I'm not just regurgitating what Glenn Beck tells me - is that Saul Alinsky is important to the contemporary left only in the minds of right wingers.

    Personally, I think it's great that you all believe that Obama's campaign is using "Rules for Radicals" as their playbook. You can organize against a nonexistent strategy and we'll organize against he actual Republican campaign. Then we'll see who wins.

    From what I have seen, the Republican campaign will be directed against specific, actual Obama performance including promises, results, tactics, character, policies, etc. The degree to which he does or does not follow any previously published tactics will not matter.


    Well, that will be an interesting departure from what we've seen of the Republican campaign thus far, which has been based almost entirely on lies, distortions and half-truths.

    Romney's entire stump speech is a series of lies, so we'll see...

    The Republican campaign has been only in its embryonic stage so far. I am sure you will find anything against Obama to be lies, etc.


    Romney has been running for president for 6 years and his campaign is only in it's embryonic stages? When will it be an adult campaign? 2612?

    icon_lol.gif

    Referring to the Republican campaign, and you probably know that the Romney campaign has been focused on the primaries. Compared to what you will see in coming months, you can call today's campaigns embryonic.


    No. You can call it "embryonic." I don't consider a 6-year-old embryonic.

    I would call it a poorly executed campaign surrounding a terrible candidate.
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    Apr 02, 2012 3:58 PM GMT
    Seems to me that SoCal is again practicing blind partisan adherence to his far right radicals who have been and are currently using every 'rule for radicals' that they possibly can to stir up the masses to vote against their own interests.

    AIPAC and the related Neo Cons the far right repubs are so supportive of are expersts at carrying out 'rules for radicals'. Hell, lets face it, they stir the shit then step around the corner yelling HEEEEELP !!! then when they draw a crowd blame their opposition for what they trumped up based on lies.

    Not sure whether the abbove use the 'rules for radicals' more or "Goebels" rules for propaganda.


    Either way those of us who stay informed no damn well better than what SoCal and the far right tries to pass off as problems coming from the left.