What is your opinion on socialism?

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    Apr 02, 2012 3:04 AM GMT
    To me, I don't see what is so bad about socialism. Here in America Republicans talk about how bad it is but I look at other countries that are socialist like Australia, Sweden, France etc and their economies are all doing better than ours here in America.

    What do you think?
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    Apr 02, 2012 3:25 AM GMT
    The words "socialism" and "socialist" get thrown around so much in US media that they have really just become substitutes for "something I don't like," usually uttered by people whose retirement depends on Social Security and whose parents' hospital bills are routinely paid by Medicare.

    There are no perfect systems. There will always be times when some countries are thriving and others are stumbling. If you worry too much about whether you're down when someone else is up, you just become a copycat.

    So, who cares if something is or isn't socialist? Just matters whether it does what it's supposed to do.
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    Apr 02, 2012 3:33 AM GMT
    Socialism is inevitable, capitalism is an inherently flawed system, and all the lies about socialism are based on misconceptions about what socialism is. Capitalism creates poverty, war, and injustice everywhere - of course a system like that is going to change eventually.


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    Apr 02, 2012 3:41 AM GMT
    We have our share of issues here too in Australia. Its not all shrimp on the barbie laying on the beach.icon_cool.gif
    Ours is a pretty mixed bag kind of picking and choosing of capatilist and socialist models over the last 100 years or so.
    For instance we as a nation find it incredible that the US has no national federally funded health care and that none of you really seem to mind, that is a socialist ideal and we expect that as citizens of Australia.
    In many ways we have a good balance of the 2 economic extremes, I guess the difference here is we dont really see socialism as a necessarily bad thing and isnt demonised the way it appears to be in the US. Nor do we necessarily see as the true free market economy as the answer to everything either.
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    Apr 02, 2012 4:19 AM GMT
    Most Western countries are some form of a social democracy. There are certain things that the state says are too important to leave to chance or leave to the capitalist system, like healthcare and education not just through high school but in many places graduate schools as well, and certain things that they leave to the market like the price of cars, price of housing, etc. While I think that social democracies are probably a good but not perfect mix of socialism and capitalism, one thing I have to say is that I do think that the criticism that a "nanny state" sort of robs people of their ambition may have some merit. While in France I had a few friends who worked just enough so that they had money when they went on vacation but not too much so that they could take advantage of reduced housing, help for food, free transportation passes, etc. One would work for like a month and then go off for two months to India. Now there are people who abuse the system in the US as well but I think that it is a little easier to do it over there.
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    Apr 02, 2012 12:18 PM GMT
    mizzouguy10 saidEvery successful economic system is a mixture of capitalism and socialism. So people who scream socialism are fear mongering (obviously).


    Socialism may work in small countries where generations have lived in the same communities. They have a built in moral aversion to not contributing. They view themselves as an extented, homogenous family. Pretty much the opposite of the US.

    But neither C or S works when the government becomes corrupt. This is what's happening to capitalism in the US. The big guys write laws to favor themselves. Its tough to compete with Goldman Sachs when they pay a 1% tax rate, large banks get 0% interest money, GE gets $3 billion tax refund, etc. The answer isn't more socialism...just clean up the marketplace, which is an ongoing job. But I can see socializing education and health care, as it benefits everybody to live in a healthy and well educated society.
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    Apr 02, 2012 1:40 PM GMT
    Anyone really interested in delving into this should consider doing their own research and coming to their own conclusions. For example, this thread refers to a book by F.A. Hayek, an Nobel winner in Economics. There is also in the thread a reference to an economics professor who offers his perspective and that of Milton Friedman.
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2276087
    There are people with credentials who take an opposing point of view, so you can research different sides and see what arguments are most convincing to you.
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    Apr 02, 2012 2:01 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidAnyone really interested in delving into this should really consider doing their own research and coming to their own conclusions. For example, this thread refers to a book by F.A. Hayek, an Nobel winner in Economics. There is also in the thread a reference to an economics professor who offers his perspective and that of Milton Friedman.
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2276087
    There are people with credentials who take an opposing point of view, so you can research different sides and see what arguments are most convincing to you.


    If you read Milton Friedman and F.A. Hayek, you should balance them out with some Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. But they're all polemics. Their utopias were judged utopias because they looked good on paper, but failed in practice.

    No system of economics can be ideal without safeguards against corruption, greed and foolishness.
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    Apr 02, 2012 2:17 PM GMT
    White4DarkerFL said
    socalfitness saidAnyone really interested in delving into this should really consider doing their own research and coming to their own conclusions. For example, this thread refers to a book by F.A. Hayek, an Nobel winner in Economics. There is also in the thread a reference to an economics professor who offers his perspective and that of Milton Friedman.
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2276087
    There are people with credentials who take an opposing point of view, so you can research different sides and see what arguments are most convincing to you.


    If you read Milton Friedman and F.A. Hayek, you should balance them out with some Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. But they're all polemics. Their utopias were judged utopias because they looked good on paper, but failed in practice.

    No system of economics can be ideal without safeguards against corruption, greed and foolishness.

    Have read Marx and Engles and other authors. Those would be two that I would suggest if someone wanted to balance the ones I did suggest. Agree with the comment on corruption, etc. Tactics of those implementing systems on the far-left versus far-right are not all that dissimilar.
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    Apr 02, 2012 3:11 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    White4DarkerFL said
    socalfitness saidAnyone really interested in delving into this should really consider doing their own research and coming to their own conclusions. For example, this thread refers to a book by F.A. Hayek, an Nobel winner in Economics. There is also in the thread a reference to an economics professor who offers his perspective and that of Milton Friedman.
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2276087
    There are people with credentials who take an opposing point of view, so you can research different sides and see what arguments are most convincing to you.


    If you read Milton Friedman and F.A. Hayek, you should balance them out with some Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. But they're all polemics. Their utopias were judged utopias because they looked good on paper, but failed in practice.

    No system of economics can be ideal without safeguards against corruption, greed and foolishness.

    Have read Marx and Engles and other authors. Those would be two that I would suggest if someone wanted to balance the ones I did suggest. Agree with the comment on corruption, etc. Tactics of those implementing systems on the far-left versus far-right are not all that dissimilar.


    Yes, I was talking to friend from China who is impressed by the system set up by our founding fathers. We can vote far left or right, but then elected officials get stymied, at least long enough for voters to change their mind. Even a rogue city can't head for the cliff, without the courts pulling them back with the Constitution.
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    Apr 02, 2012 4:24 PM GMT
    The question being asked is "What is your opinion of socialism?"


    The closest we here in the US can come to 'Socialism' is Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid, this has been one of the most successful US government programs for the benefit of its Republican and Democrat Citizens in the History of our country, so I very much approve of it at least to this extent.

    I'll bet that about 100% of the Tbaggers either are now or will in the future benefit from this terrible socialistic program that the Koch bro's money has influenced them to rail against. IRONIC ISN'T IT ?
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    Apr 02, 2012 4:46 PM GMT
    All I know for myself is that any governing body will not please everyone governed; and there are many solutions to how first world countries should be governed. IMHO, not one single one works best all the time and in all facets of governing. My past ideas were of people just chilling and loving each other and their differences... wow, 5 years later: I feel that maybe all the political methods should be combined, and shuffled around into our own government, and the US Citizens should make deciding choices directly. We can vote for American Idols and check Facebook religiously; this wouldn't be so difficult. Hell, we could do away with blaming politicians if we can see we're different in our nation's regions and not exactly as right as rain in all regards.

    I don't think that made sense after reading, but made sense when writing. Grammar Police!
  • GQjock

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    Apr 02, 2012 4:59 PM GMT
    What's my opinion on Socialism........

    The problem with the question is the words the question has to begin with
    In this country "Socialism" has been so maligned by the likes of the people who gave us the last two really big recessions and well one really big depression

    That being the people who rule in this country
    .... Take a look at who is backing ALEC what it does and who it benefits
    Who has started FOX who runs it and who benefits from their lies and distortions

    Now a better worded question would be ... What's your opinion on governmental oversight .... Or what's your opinion on regulation
    Since they are portions of Socialism

    My opinion on the governmental form in the TRUE sense is that it can never work in this country ...... The economic portion of it
    But we have ... Have had and will always have some sort of socialism occurring in this country .... Ask your neighborhood fire dept ... Your local police man .... Your school district
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    Apr 02, 2012 6:50 PM GMT
    I've suggested in conversation to people that they should say "no one is allowed to have more than $5 million dollars". And they've gasped and exlaimed in panic "THAT'S SOCIALISM!!"

    I don't know what the fuck socialism is, so I back away slowly. But doesn't sound awful to me.
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    Apr 02, 2012 7:19 PM GMT
    This is from dictionary.com, since everybody has access to it.

    Socialism:

    so·cial·ism   [soh-shuh-liz-uhm]
    noun
    1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

    2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.

    3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

    This is why fire departments, schools and police are not accurate examples of socialism, because private fire departments, schools and security organizations exist, and are not prohibited from doing so.

    Effective regulation and oversight are also not exclusive to socialism, because a focused, effective (but very limited) government is essential to a capitalist system.

    I do not believe in this system at all, because it falls well outside of what I believe to be the legitimate role of government. Its important to remember that government doesnt control THINGS, it can only control PEOPLE, so when you say you're ok with government controlling production and distribution, etc, you're saying your're ok with government controlling people in order to accomplish those goals. Note that nowhere in the definition does it say whether that control is compulsory or voluntary.

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    Apr 02, 2012 7:41 PM GMT
    SkinnyBitch saidI've suggested in conversation to people that they should say "no one is allowed to have more than $5 million dollars". And they've gasped and exlaimed in panic "THAT'S SOCIALISM!!"

    I don't know what the fuck socialism is, so I back away slowly. But doesn't sound awful to me.


    Ok...say I patent an invention that improves lives and something that people want. I pay taxes on the royalties and live frugally, accumulating a net worth of $6 million. Now some government bureaucrat takes my savings? And what do they do with it? And who decides that $5 million is not enough, or too much?

    This is just one reason why socialism (the way you describe it) fails. It destroys the work ethic and thrift habits in people...bedrocks of a prosperous society.
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    Apr 02, 2012 8:29 PM GMT
    Oh please, people aren't going to do an even worse job than they're already doing because they won't get to own more than $5 million at some point in their lives. Might as well just give up.

    $5 million in the bank is a sin to me.
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    Apr 03, 2012 12:19 AM GMT
    Socialism. It sounds "friendly".

    I wonder what Jesus / the Buddah / etc. would make of it?
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    Apr 03, 2012 12:03 PM GMT
    "With socialism man exploits man; with capitalism its the other way around."