Response to RJ member interested in using Zimmerman/Martin discussion for a psychology project or thesis

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    Apr 03, 2012 1:19 PM GMT
    An RJ member reading some of the related threads wrote to me. He related to what I wrote, and asked my opinion on this. As I wrote back, I decided to make my response public to get other opinions and, "if you don't mind, even share the idea with others who might be interested in doing something similar. I don't think it would compete with yours, assuming anyone else is in a different university, and if any papers were to be published, they would likely not compete." The RJ member did write back saying he had no problem with this in a thread. Would rather get more ideas and not concerned about any competition.

    I think it would be excellent either as part of a larger project or even a stand-alone project. There are several related threads, and you should look at all of them. I don't think there is any issue using the forum discussion as long as you don't try to identify any members. Of course, there would be no need to do so. Assuming you wanted to share the results, maybe by providing a link to your paper, I would just suggest a couple of things. I would avoid using any information from any member profile. You might look at them yourself, but the real meat is in the threads. Also, if you do publish, I would substitute other names instead of using actual screen names.

    I was not a psychology major myself, although I am familiar with scientific methods. So with that in mind, whatever methodologies you choose, I think you need to address or control for politics so you can focus on and make conclusions based on the behavior versus anyone's political orientation. I think there are underlying political drivers, but I suspect the behavior in the threads can be addressed independent of that. What I mean is there are political motivations by leaders and some in the media. I think the behavior here is the result of folks being manipulated, rather than having direct political objectives themselves relative to this specific discussion.

    I think the externally-driven motivation is to exploit a inter-racial event to promote divisiveness. The behavior I see here that I think would be ripe for analysis is 1) anger at people who consider the possibility that there are alternate versions of events and want to see results of an investigation, even if it was botched at first, 2) describing those people as smearing the reputation of Trayvon, 3) describing those people as hating Trayvon, 4) describing the event in emotion charged speech, along the lines of that Florida Congressperson who said he was racially profiled and hunted down like a rabid dog.

    Anyway, would look forward to reading results. I have my own opinions and it would be interesting to see yours. Good luck, and maybe you'll get some other ideas.
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    Apr 03, 2012 1:36 PM GMT
    Pathetic... icon_lol.gif
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Apr 03, 2012 2:31 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidPathetic... icon_lol.gif



    Ohhhh, were you looking in the mirror again? icon_rolleyes.gif




    John, it does sound like an interesting project. I have been astounded at how this story has blown up across the nation --- yet another example of taking just one of probably hundreds of shootings across the country, packaging it in such a way, exploiting it to the hilt, bring in the usual players like the so-called Reverend Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson sprinkle in some celebrity names like Spike Lee and Waaaaaaa-Laaaaa RACIALLY CHARGED SCANDAL. Watching it unfold here on RJ is like a microcosm of how it's played out across the country, polarizing sides against one another. The sad thing is that those of us who urge restraint, encourage no rush to judgment, and argue that the facts should be allowed to be gathered and the investigation completed get lambasted like that is some sort of racist take on the situation -- when it's not. At the end of the day RACE has nothing to do with doing the fair and right thing.
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    Apr 03, 2012 2:34 PM GMT
    Socialfitness: always above the fray of partisan politics, manipulation by the media, and personal bias.
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    Apr 03, 2012 2:36 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Christian73 saidPathetic... icon_lol.gif



    Ohhhh, were you looking in the mirror again? icon_rolleyes.gif

    John, it does sound like an interesting project. I have been astounded at how this story has blown up across the nation --- yet another example of taking just one of probably hundreds of shootings across the country, packaging it in such a way, exploiting it to the hilt, bring in the usual players like the so-called Reverend Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson sprinkle in some celebrity names like Spike Lee and Waaaaaaa-Laaaaa RACIALLY CHARGED SCANDAL. Watching it unfold here on RJ is like a microcosm of how it's played out across the country, polarizing sides against one another. The sad thing is that those of us who urge restraint, encourage no rush to judgment, and argue that the facts should be allowed to be gathered and the investigation completed get lambasted like that is some sort of racist take on the situation -- when it's not. At the end of the day RACE has nothing to do with doing the fair and right thing.

    I realize that there are political motivations, but the behavior that I cited in the OP to me goes beyond politics. It is incomprehensible to me how people can react the way they do. In one particular case, there is a history and I wouldn't expect any rational response from that person, but aside from this one case, I would find an analysis fascinating.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Apr 03, 2012 2:44 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidI would find an analysis fascinating.



    Most rational thinking people would...However, unfortunately, here on RJ we have a spattering of irrationals, and they don't like it one bit when the rational types encourage or express any rational thinking. They immediately go on the attack. It's not pretty, but can be amusing
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Apr 03, 2012 3:04 PM GMT
    PUBLISHED !!!!

    Oh My F**kin word icon_biggrin.gif

    And what would this "Project" be filed under ? Fictional short stories ?
    Or Fantasy?

    You don't seem to understand that everything you say and write is as tilted as a ski slope
    Ah so you might wanna call Palin for her publishing agents name
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    Apr 03, 2012 3:25 PM GMT
    A whole department of people could get their PhDs studying this Forum!
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Apr 03, 2012 3:31 PM GMT
    socalfitness said

    I think the externally-driven motivation is to exploit a inter-racial event to promote divisiveness. The behavior I see here that I think would be ripe for analysis is 1) anger at people who consider the possibility that there are alternate versions of events and want to see results of an investigation, even if it was botched at first, 2) describing those people as smearing the reputation of Trayvon, 3) describing those people as hating Trayvon, 4) describing the event in emotion charged speech, along the lines of that Florida Congressperson who said he was racially profiled and hunted down like a rabid dog.

    Anyway, would look forward to reading results. I have my own opinions and it would be interesting to see yours.



    Well to begin, I think John, you already expressed your own ideas as stated above.... I just happen to disagree with a portion of them.

    You know the basic idea that John encourages is a positive one.... it would be that the results would be vastly different based on the perceptions, background and beliefs of the writer. In many cases, the opinions expressed may not be right or wrong, but the perceptions of those writers.

    I would agree with John that many on both sides in this case may see a political agenda, I don't however think there is any "promotion of divisiveness" provided at an external level and certainly not in the way John states above.. I see this as a tragedy.. with certain racial motivation(s) by the shooter. How others see it is again, based on who they are.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Apr 03, 2012 3:50 PM GMT
    socalfitness said

    I was not a psychology major myself, although I am familiar with scientific methods. So with that in mind, whatever methodologies you choose, I think you need to address or control for politics so you can focus on and make conclusions based on the behavior versus anyone's political orientation. I think there are underlying political drivers, but I suspect the behavior in the threads can be addressed independent of that. What I mean is there are political motivations by leaders and some in the media. I think the behavior here is the result of folks being manipulated, rather than having direct political objectives themselves relative to this specific discussion.

    I think the externally-driven motivation is to exploit a inter-racial event to promote divisiveness. The behavior I see here that I think would be ripe for analysis is 1) anger at people who consider the possibility that there are alternate versions of events and want to see results of an investigation, even if it was botched at first, 2) describing those people as smearing the reputation of Trayvon, 3) describing those people as hating Trayvon, 4) describing the event in emotion charged speech, along the lines of that Florida Congressperson who said he was racially profiled and hunted down like a rabid dog.
    .


    Excuse my shock and disbelief at the mere possibility of this so called project
    If you were contemplating doing it
    But here's the thing about this case that would throw a rock bigger than what caused the Tanguska Phenomenon
    It's not a Rorsach test ...... Someone killed Trayvon
    There are facts .... And what is particularly disturbing is that because someone was ... UNARRESTED as we have found out
    There was no criminal investigation until a special prosecutor came in and the Justice dept came in ... Because literally the whole country said WTF????

    What you MAY want to consider in your project is contemplating why your LIST .... 123 .... Kinda point a crooked finger at the people who want to see justice done by criminal investigation and doing what the initial investigator wanted to do .... Namely arresting and charging the man
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Apr 03, 2012 4:02 PM GMT
    GQjock said
    There are facts .... And what is particularly disturbing is that because someone was ... UNARRESTED as we have found out
    There was no criminal investigation until a special prosecutor came in and the Justice dept came in ... Because literally the whole country said WTF????



    You, as per usual, are posting your version of facts that are anything BUT fact. The notion that "there was no investigation" is absolutely false. This is but one of many morsels of misinformation floating around that has created a circus-like atmosphere regarding this case.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Apr 03, 2012 4:10 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said



    You, as per usual,


    If you want to make a point in an argument, you don't start off this way...
    it creates bad feelings immediately. Make your point in a way that is grounded, not make the other party defensive and you will probably be more successful with your counterpoint.

    Of course, I disagree with the assertion that Joey is "per usual" wrong in his facts! LOL

    Love ya Todd!

    icon_lol.gif
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    Apr 03, 2012 4:17 PM GMT
    JPtheBITCH saidThis is on the way to being the GOP's new Terry Schiavo moment.
    That didn't turn out so well either.

    The GOP and AFAIK prominent Republicans have not taken a position on this, but I do believe your comments reflect a tactic of the Democrats, but not relevant to a study, other than controlling politics out to focus on the psychological aspects.
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    Apr 03, 2012 4:23 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan said
    socalfitness said

    I think the externally-driven motivation is to exploit a inter-racial event to promote divisiveness. The behavior I see here that I think would be ripe for analysis is 1) anger at people who consider the possibility that there are alternate versions of events and want to see results of an investigation, even if it was botched at first, 2) describing those people as smearing the reputation of Trayvon, 3) describing those people as hating Trayvon, 4) describing the event in emotion charged speech, along the lines of that Florida Congressperson who said he was racially profiled and hunted down like a rabid dog.

    Anyway, would look forward to reading results. I have my own opinions and it would be interesting to see yours.



    Well to begin, I think John, you already expressed your own ideas as stated above.... I just happen to disagree with a portion of them.

    You know the basic idea that John encourages is a positive one.... it would be that the results would be vastly different based on the perceptions, background and beliefs of the writer. In many cases, the opinions expressed may not be right or wrong, but the perceptions of those writers.

    I would agree with John that many on both sides in this case may see a political agenda, I don't however think there is any "promotion of divisiveness" provided at an external level and certainly not in the way John states above.. I see this as a tragedy.. with certain racial motivation(s) by the shooter. How others see it is again, based on who they are.

    As I stated above, I didn't see divisiveness driving the forum discussions. I think it is more related to the psychologies of the participants. I considered the divisiveness as a driving motivation outside the discussion. While you may disagree, and it gets into what I think will be political tactics of Democrats, it really should be separate from the RJ member's possible study because it takes focus away from what I think should be looked at. Will note, however, per JP's comment, there is an intent by the Democrats to exploit this tragedy for political gain.
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    Apr 03, 2012 4:37 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan said
    socalfitness said

    I think the externally-driven motivation is to exploit a inter-racial event to promote divisiveness. The behavior I see here that I think would be ripe for analysis is 1) anger at people who consider the possibility that there are alternate versions of events and want to see results of an investigation, even if it was botched at first, 2) describing those people as smearing the reputation of Trayvon, 3) describing those people as hating Trayvon, 4) describing the event in emotion charged speech, along the lines of that Florida Congressperson who said he was racially profiled and hunted down like a rabid dog.

    Anyway, would look forward to reading results. I have my own opinions and it would be interesting to see yours.



    Well to begin, I think John, you already expressed your own ideas as stated above.... I just happen to disagree with a portion of them.

    You know the basic idea that John encourages is a positive one.... it would be that the results would be vastly different based on the perceptions, background and beliefs of the writer. In many cases, the opinions expressed may not be right or wrong, but the perceptions of those writers.

    I would agree with John that many on both sides in this case may see a political agenda, I don't however think there is any "promotion of divisiveness" provided at an external level and certainly not in the way John states above.. I see this as a tragedy.. with certain racial motivation(s) by the shooter. How others see it is again, based on who they are.

    As I stated above, I didn't see divisiveness driving the forum discussions. I think it is more related to the psychologies of the participants. I considered the divisiveness as a driving motivation outside the discussion. While you may disagree, and it gets into what I think will be political tactics of Democrats, it really should be separate from the RJ member's possible study because it takes focus away from what I think should be looked at. Will note, however, per JP's comment, there is an intent by the Democrats to exploit this tragedy for political gain.


    The only thing weaker than your understanding of the American criminal justice system is your alleged knowledge of psychology.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 03, 2012 4:42 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan said...both sides in this case may see a political agenda...

    Yes, but one side has the body. icon_wink.gif
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    Apr 03, 2012 4:42 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan said
    socalfitness said

    I think the externally-driven motivation is to exploit a inter-racial event to promote divisiveness. The behavior I see here that I think would be ripe for analysis is 1) anger at people who consider the possibility that there are alternate versions of events and want to see results of an investigation, even if it was botched at first, 2) describing those people as smearing the reputation of Trayvon, 3) describing those people as hating Trayvon, 4) describing the event in emotion charged speech, along the lines of that Florida Congressperson who said he was racially profiled and hunted down like a rabid dog.

    Anyway, would look forward to reading results. I have my own opinions and it would be interesting to see yours.



    Well to begin, I think John, you already expressed your own ideas as stated above.... I just happen to disagree with a portion of them.

    You know the basic idea that John encourages is a positive one.... it would be that the results would be vastly different based on the perceptions, background and beliefs of the writer. In many cases, the opinions expressed may not be right or wrong, but the perceptions of those writers.

    I would agree with John that many on both sides in this case may see a political agenda, I don't however think there is any "promotion of divisiveness" provided at an external level and certainly not in the way John states above.. I see this as a tragedy.. with certain racial motivation(s) by the shooter. How others see it is again, based on who they are.

    As I stated above, I didn't see divisiveness driving the forum discussions. I think it is more related to the psychologies of the participants. I considered the divisiveness as a driving motivation outside the discussion. While you may disagree, and it gets into what I think will be political tactics of Democrats, it really should be separate from the RJ member's possible study because it takes focus away from what I think should be looked at. Will note, however, per JP's comment, there is an intent by the Democrats to exploit this tragedy for political gain.


    The only thing weaker than your understanding of the American criminal justice system is your alleged knowledge of psychology.

    I guess if he and/or others do the project, they will need to include this thread as well, instead of just considering this thread as discussing the project and it's methodologies.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 03, 2012 5:19 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan said
    socalfitness said

    I think the externally-driven motivation is to exploit a inter-racial event to promote divisiveness. The behavior I see here that I think would be ripe for analysis is 1) anger at people who consider the possibility that there are alternate versions of events and want to see results of an investigation, even if it was botched at first, 2) describing those people as smearing the reputation of Trayvon, 3) describing those people as hating Trayvon, 4) describing the event in emotion charged speech, along the lines of that Florida Congressperson who said he was racially profiled and hunted down like a rabid dog.

    Anyway, would look forward to reading results. I have my own opinions and it would be interesting to see yours.



    Well to begin, I think John, you already expressed your own ideas as stated above.... I just happen to disagree with a portion of them.

    You know the basic idea that John encourages is a positive one.... it would be that the results would be vastly different based on the perceptions, background and beliefs of the writer. In many cases, the opinions expressed may not be right or wrong, but the perceptions of those writers.

    I would agree with John that many on both sides in this case may see a political agenda, I don't however think there is any "promotion of divisiveness" provided at an external level and certainly not in the way John states above.. I see this as a tragedy.. with certain racial motivation(s) by the shooter. How others see it is again, based on who they are.

    As I stated above, I didn't see divisiveness driving the forum discussions. I think it is more related to the psychologies of the participants. I considered the divisiveness as a driving motivation outside the discussion. While you may disagree, and it gets into what I think will be political tactics of Democrats, it really should be separate from the RJ member's possible study because it takes focus away from what I think should be looked at. Will note, however, per JP's comment, there is an intent by the Democrats to exploit this tragedy for political gain.


    The only thing weaker than your understanding of the American criminal justice system is your alleged knowledge of psychology.

    I guess if he and/or others do the project, they will need to include this thread as well, instead of just considering this thread as discussing the project and it's methodologies.


    Anyone using a message board discussion as the centerpiece of their psychology thesis is probably doomed to fail. icon_cool.gif
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    Apr 03, 2012 5:23 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidAn RJ member reading some of the related threads wrote to me. He related to what I wrote, and asked my opinion on this. As I wrote back, I decided to make my response public to get other opinions and, "if you don't mind, even share the idea with others who might be interested in doing something similar. I don't think it would compete with yours, assuming anyone else is in a different university, and if any papers were to be published, they would likely not compete." The RJ member did write back saying he had no problem with this in a thread. Would rather get more ideas and not concerned about any competition.

    I think it would be excellent either as part of a larger project or even a stand-alone project. There are several related threads, and you should look at all of them. I don't think there is any issue using the forum discussion as long as you don't try to identify any members. Of course, there would be no need to do so. Assuming you wanted to share the results, maybe by providing a link to your paper, I would just suggest a couple of things. I would avoid using any information from any member profile. You might look at them yourself, but the real meat is in the threads. Also, if you do publish, I would substitute other names instead of using actual screen names.

    I was not a psychology major myself, although I am familiar with scientific methods. So with that in mind, whatever methodologies you choose, I think you need to address or control for politics so you can focus on and make conclusions based on the behavior versus anyone's political orientation. I think there are underlying political drivers, but I suspect the behavior in the threads can be addressed independent of that. What I mean is there are political motivations by leaders and some in the media. I think the behavior here is the result of folks being manipulated, rather than having direct political objectives themselves relative to this specific discussion.

    I think the externally-driven motivation is to exploit a inter-racial event to promote divisiveness. The behavior I see here that I think would be ripe for analysis is 1) anger at people who consider the possibility that there are alternate versions of events and want to see results of an investigation, even if it was botched at first, 2) describing those people as smearing the reputation of Trayvon, 3) describing those people as hating Trayvon, 4) describing the event in emotion charged speech, along the lines of that Florida Congressperson who said he was racially profiled and hunted down like a rabid dog.

    Anyway, would look forward to reading results. I have my own opinions and it would be interesting to see yours. Good luck, and maybe you'll get some other ideas.


    As a psych student myself, I can state with authority that this is the biggest load of crap possibly ever.

    The only people who have been accused of smearing Trayvon are those who with no evidence or with falsified evidence from right-wing blogs tried to paint the dead kid as a thug in order to serve their gun and race obsessesions.

    That this happened -- prompting retractions of the disgusting racist smears from sites like Michelle Malkin's Twitchy -- is indisputable. That these smears have horrified most Americans which are now turning away from the gOP and driving down Mitt Romney's favorability numbers (guilty by association) is obvious.

    That RealJock's conservaposse is on the defensive about it is telling. They should just say Malkin, Drudge, and the rest of the Trayvon-haters were wrong for their disgusting War on Unarmed Kids, but they just keep digging.

    Democrats who were going to in 2012 but are now going to win as the GOP Terry Schiavos itself (again) thanks them.
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    Apr 03, 2012 6:02 PM GMT
    TrojanAthlete said
    socalfitness saidAn RJ member reading some of the related threads wrote to me. He related to what I wrote, and asked my opinion on this. As I wrote back, I decided to make my response public to get other opinions and, "if you don't mind, even share the idea with others who might be interested in doing something similar. I don't think it would compete with yours, assuming anyone else is in a different university, and if any papers were to be published, they would likely not compete." The RJ member did write back saying he had no problem with this in a thread. Would rather get more ideas and not concerned about any competition.

    I think it would be excellent either as part of a larger project or even a stand-alone project. There are several related threads, and you should look at all of them. I don't think there is any issue using the forum discussion as long as you don't try to identify any members. Of course, there would be no need to do so. Assuming you wanted to share the results, maybe by providing a link to your paper, I would just suggest a couple of things. I would avoid using any information from any member profile. You might look at them yourself, but the real meat is in the threads. Also, if you do publish, I would substitute other names instead of using actual screen names.

    I was not a psychology major myself, although I am familiar with scientific methods. So with that in mind, whatever methodologies you choose, I think you need to address or control for politics so you can focus on and make conclusions based on the behavior versus anyone's political orientation. I think there are underlying political drivers, but I suspect the behavior in the threads can be addressed independent of that. What I mean is there are political motivations by leaders and some in the media. I think the behavior here is the result of folks being manipulated, rather than having direct political objectives themselves relative to this specific discussion.

    I think the externally-driven motivation is to exploit a inter-racial event to promote divisiveness. The behavior I see here that I think would be ripe for analysis is 1) anger at people who consider the possibility that there are alternate versions of events and want to see results of an investigation, even if it was botched at first, 2) describing those people as smearing the reputation of Trayvon, 3) describing those people as hating Trayvon, 4) describing the event in emotion charged speech, along the lines of that Florida Congressperson who said he was racially profiled and hunted down like a rabid dog.

    Anyway, would look forward to reading results. I have my own opinions and it would be interesting to see yours. Good luck, and maybe you'll get some other ideas.


    As a psych student myself, I can state with authority that this is the biggest load of crap possibly ever.

    The only people who have been accused of smearing Trayvon are those who with no evidence or with falsified evidence from right-wing blogs tried to paint the dead kid as a thug in order to serve their gun and race obsessesions.

    That this happened -- prompting retractions of the disgusting racist smears from sites like Michelle Malkin's Twitchy -- is indisputable. That these smears have horrified most Americans which are now turning away from the gOP and driving down Mitt Romney's favorability numbers (guilty by association) is obvious.

    That RealJock's conservaposse is on the defensive about it is telling. They should just say Malkin, Drudge, and the rest of the Trayvon-haters were wrong for their disgusting War on Unarmed Kids, but they just keep digging.

    Democrats who were going to in 2012 but are now going to win as the GOP Terry Schiavos itself (again) thanks them.

    Your comment about Terry Schiavo, along with JP's, does indicate your political axe to grind.

    Your comment on the"War on Unarmed Kids" in the other thread and here I think would be good fodder for analysis.

    As far as you being a psych student, maybe you can't relate to another student interested in studying behavioral dynamics on the Internet. To you it's crap because you would definitely be an object of study.

    BTW, you've expressed hatred of Romney in the past to such an extent, you can't even see straight. Hope he/they do the study and include you.