The Third Sex.

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    Apr 04, 2012 3:18 PM GMT
    a open discussion about the third gender... something that is written in the Kamasutra vedic literature that I found, would like to share to all RJs..icon_smile.gif especially Gay men part..

    Third-Gender Roles
    People of the third sex (tritiya-prakriti) are of two kinds, according to whether their appearance is masculine or feminine.Kama Sutra 2.9.1)Members of the third sex are first categorized according to whether their physical characteristics are either male or female. These are known as kliba, or gay males, and svairini, or lesbians. Each of these categories is then divided into two, depending upon whether their behavior is either masculine or feminine. They are then further divided into many subcategories.

    Lesbians (Svairini) ...

    Gay Men (Kliba)

    The word kliba can refer to any type of impotent man, but in this instance it is specifically used to describe men who are completely impotent with women due to their homosexual nature. Gay men are thoroughly described in the chapter of the Kama Sutra concerning oral sex (auparishtaka).17 Oral sex is not recommended for heterosexuals and is forbidden to brahmanas (priests), but it is acknowledged as the natural practice among those of the third sex who are not otherwise engaged in celibacy. Homosexual men who take the passive role in oral sex are specifically known in Sanskrit as mukhebhaga or asekya.

    Gay men with feminine qualities are first described:
    Those with a feminine appearance show it by their dress, speech, laughter, behavior, gentleness, lack of courage, silliness, patience, and modesty.18
    (Kama Sutra 2.9.2)

    Gay men with feminine qualities are the most recognizable members of the third sex. For this reason, they have often kept their own societies within all cultures of the world. They generally keep long hair and arrange it in braids or in a womanly fashion. Those who dress up as females are known as transvestites. Feminine gay males were often professionally employed by aristocratic women and commonly served within the royal palace. They are proficient in the arts, entertainment, and most notably, dancing. As mentioned earlier, their presence at marriage and religious ceremonies was considered to invoke auspiciousness, and their blessings were much sought after.

    The masculine gay male is next described:
    Those who like men but dissimulate the fact maintain a manly appearance and earn their living as barbers or masseurs.19
    (Kama Sutra 2.9.6)

    The masculine gay male is not as easily recognizable and would often blend into ordinary society, living either independently or within marriage to another man. Some were known to become professional male prostitutes who worked as masseurs. The technique of these masseurs is described in much detail. While effeminate gay men would keep smooth skin, apply makeup and sometimes, don breasts, the masculine gay male would keep bodily hairs, grow moustaches or small beards, and maintain a muscular physique. They would often wear shiny earrings. Gay men were talented in many different ways and were engaged in all means of livelihood. They often served as house attendants to wealthy vaishyas (merchants) or as chamberlains and ministers to government officials. Such men were renowned for their loyalty and devotion. Sometimes gay men would live as renunciates and develop clairvoyant powers. Those practicing celibacy were often used as pujaris (temple priests).

    Gay males typically engaged in fraternal or casual love but were sometimes known to marry one another:

    There are also third-sexed citizens, sometimes greatly attached to each other and with complete faith in one another, who get married (parigraha) together.20
    (Kama Sutra 2.9.36)

    There were eight different types of marriage according to the Vedic system, and the homosexual marriage that occurred between gay males or lesbians was classified under the gandharva or celestial variety. .... “Citizens with this kind of [homosexual] inclination, who renounce women and can do without them willingly because they love each other, get married together, bound by a deep and trusting friendship.”

    Transgenders (Shandha)
    Intersex (Napumsa)
    Bisexuals (Kami)

    Social Morality...

    Reproductive Balance and Nature
    Within the microcosm, specific mechanisms that account for sterility and homosexual behavior in animals may appear to be “disorders,” “defects,” or “errors,” but if we step back from the proximal causes and view the reproductive health of the species as a whole, and how it changes under different conditions over time in various local and regional environments, then we can see how the nonreproductive “third sex” actually plays an important role in the wider scheme of things. Nature or God does not prohibit such apparent errors because in fact they are not errors at all. In the larger picture, these variations serve a purpose whether we, as humans, are aware of it or not. Human beings are not animals, but our bodies are made of the same elements and obey all of the same basic rules of chemistry and biology. We should stop thinking of our species as being somehow categorically beyond the laws of nature and God. There are reasons and mechanisms for everything in nature, and by understanding them properly we can learn to address human variance with intelligence instead of fear. The Vedic recognition of a nonreproductive “third” gender within human society indicates that ancient India was cognizant of this subtle but significant aspect of biology.

    Conclusion
    It is important that we appreciate a world filled with variety. There will never be just one race, one gender, one color, one sound, or one anything. The Vedas describe this material world as a reflection of an infinitely beautiful, perfect, and eternal spiritual world that has even more variety than we can imagine. We are all a part of this variegatedness, and we all have our own unique role to play. It is therefore pointless to argue over who is higher, lower, more important, less important, etc.

    You may ask someone, “Why are you gay?” and that someone may reply, “Why are you a man or a woman?” In the material world, we are all trying to enjoy in so many ways, and that may be one answer. Spiritually, however, we all have our own individual, intrinsic nature, and part of that nature is that we all serve God (Krsna) in the mood of a particular gender. That loving mood is eternal and full of unlimited bliss.
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    Here is the link if you guys want to read it in detail (lengthy write out) of other sub topic above...Link hope you guys appreciate it...not to say to believe it or not but something that is written back in the 300 A.D and that too amazes me.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 04, 2012 7:07 PM GMT
    That's a very interesting read, Har19, thank you!

    -Doug
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    Apr 04, 2012 8:16 PM GMT
    WOW, big wall of text, but looks interesting. It does a go to show that, while there were never any real golden ages for gay men, there were periods and places where it was accepted rather than demonized.
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    Apr 05, 2012 10:20 AM GMT
    har19 saidan open discussion about the third gender... something that is written in the Kamasutra vedic literature that I found, would like to share to all RJs..icon_smile.gif especially Gay men part..

    The masculine gay male is next described:
    Those who like men but dissimulate the fact maintain a manly appearance and earn their living as barbers or masseurs.19
    (Kama Sutra 2.9.6)

    The masculine gay male is not as easily recognizable and would often blend into ordinary society, living either independently or within marriage to another man. Some were known to become professional male prostitutes who worked as masseurs. The technique of these masseurs is described in much detail. While effeminate gay men would keep smooth skin, apply makeup and sometimes, don breasts, the masculine gay male would keep bodily hairs, grow moustaches or small beards, and maintain a muscular physique. They would often wear shiny earrings. Gay men were talented in many different ways and were engaged in all means of livelihood. They often served as house attendants to wealthy vaishyas (merchants) or as chamberlains and ministers to government officials. Such men were renowned for their loyalty and devotion. Sometimes gay men would live as renunciates and develop clairvoyant powers.



    Such men were renowned for their loyalty and devotion. Sometimes gay men would live as renunciates and develop clairvoyant powers.

    Fascinating.
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    Apr 05, 2012 10:29 AM GMT
    It's not oppressive to be homosexual in Hindu societies?

    I remember working with a Hindu woman and seeing one or more movies about Hindu society and did not get the feeling the wisdom of the Karma Sutra was being expressed.

    Wasn't gay rights in India a big deal a couple of years ago?

    (I remember the Penthouse video on heterosexual Karma Sutra.)