Is America waging a Civil War of hate and murder against Women, Minorities, Gays, Elderly and the Poor??

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    Apr 06, 2012 12:45 PM GMT


    Are groups of American citizens waging a war of hate and murder against other groups of American citizens?
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    Apr 06, 2012 1:06 PM GMT
    LoL, no. And we have a bizarre historical perspective as coddled citizens of a hyperpower for even entertaining such a silly idea.

    When people at the height of global power, like us Americans, see their real problems grow vanishingly small, even slight variations in their level of soaring prosperity and historically unprecedented peace and comfort become crises.
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    Apr 06, 2012 1:09 PM GMT
    Larkin saidLoL, no. And we have a bizarre historical perspective as coddled citizens of a hyperpower for even entertaining such a silly idea.

    When people at the height of global power, like us Americans, see their real problems grow vanishingly small, even slight variations in their level of soaring prosperity and historically unprecedented peace and comfort become crises.
    You my friend, are in for a rude awakening!icon_wink.gif
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    Apr 06, 2012 2:42 PM GMT
    We have passed the height of our power and are on our descent into the either tyranny, or dissolution.

    My bets are on us becoming a (relatively short lived) plutocratic dictatorship where the constitution is sidelined as a mere scrap of paper and most decisions are made not out of prudent regard for the citizens of the republic, but mostly out of short-term greed and manipulations to secure as much power as possible for the plutocratic elites over the masses.


    Oh wait... you mean we are there already..?
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    Apr 06, 2012 2:45 PM GMT
    LAGYM said

    Are groups of American citizens waging a war of hate and murder against other groups of American citizens?


    Could the Hunger Games be too far are??!
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    Apr 06, 2012 3:18 PM GMT
    Larkin saidWhen people at the height of global power, like us Americans, see their real problems grow vanishingly small, even slight variations in their level of soaring prosperity and historically unprecedented peace and comfort become crises.


    By soaring prosperity, you are obviously referring to the fact that should our Chinese creditors suddenly decide to come knocking each person in America would immediately find him- or herself in over $100,000 of debt. (*hint* Most of us are all broke...shhhhhh...)

    By historically unprecedented peace, you are clearly referring to the fact that the nation is presently waging in Afghanistan the longest war in its history.

    By historically unprecedented comfort, you are most assuredly referring to the fact that upwards of 20% of Americans are un- and underemployed, a "slight variation" which has not been seen since the Great Depression.

    Or maybe by "Americans" you actually meant "residents of the Land of Oz."
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    Apr 06, 2012 6:15 PM GMT
    #shitWeOweRedChina

    ...which is a bit of a nasty sitch.

    Who has more power, the creditor who is owed trillions of units of a questionably worthless currency...

    ...or the debtor who owes trillions of units of a currency that if needed, could be written off as worthless?

    And thereby holding most* of the population of an entire planet at its mercy: the difference between present economic troubles and marginal growth vs. total global economic collapse.

    The banking elites obviously have their asse(t)s covered regardless of how things play out; but the USA is quite in a position like that of Samson in the Phillistine's temple, hands braced against the pillars and hoping he has enough strength to leverage that enormous house of cards down on top of everyone should "Plan A" fail.




    * Most, but not all: starvingly poor folks would likely not be reduced or improved in any case.
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    Apr 06, 2012 7:38 PM GMT
    JPtheBITCH saidOh there's that right-wing lie again, that we're "broke". We're nothing of the kind.


    Not broke.

    Just hopelessly in debt.

    In that Donald Trump sort of way of having all kinds of assets and even cash, but still owing more to creditors than his total net worth.

    And unlike Mr. Trump... the United States govt. can always fiddle with interst rates and increase the money supply (until the whole mess becomes so untenable that the Chinese, the Japanese, and the Germans start becoming much more demanding and loud with their collective "WTF, America?"...
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    Apr 06, 2012 7:40 PM GMT
    AlphaTrigger said
    JPtheBITCH saidOh there's that right-wing lie again, that we're "broke". We're nothing of the kind.


    Not broke.

    Just hopelessly in debt.

    In that Donald Trump sort of way of having all kinds of assets and even cash, but still owing more to creditors than his total net worth.


    Or what was known to our grandparents as "broke".
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    Apr 06, 2012 8:10 PM GMT
    @TroyAthlete:

    All correct, minus the part where the Federal Reserve can "print" more money.

    Which is a very real prospect - though interest rates are at historic lows, real inflation via an incredibly weak US Dollar (read: getting to be as worthless as the old Italian Lira) is a large part of what is driving the cost of oil up, which in turn affects the costs of everything depending upon transportation and in particular, food costs.

    Stuff that doesn't really affect people with $500,000+ incomes ... but annihilates any prospect of savings for "middle class" and working class struggling to get by with less than a six-figure income.
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    Apr 06, 2012 8:15 PM GMT
    AlphaTrigger said@TroyAthlete:

    All correct, minus the part where the Federal Reserve can "print" more money.



    Would I rather go broke by working away my debt in a Chinese gulag, or just go broke by having Bernanke reduce my existing money to toilet tissue.

    21st century dilemmas...
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    Apr 06, 2012 8:16 PM GMT
    So to say "we are broke.,." may vary significantly in its impact depending upon who is included in the "we", and the means at their disposal to avoid or even displace the consequences of insolvency onto "not-us".

    Case in point: the largest creditor - bigger than the Chinese and Japanese combined - are US citizens via Social Securiry and Medicare and other entitlements that cannot be made to legislatively disappear without the massive shedding of blood.
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    Apr 06, 2012 8:47 PM GMT
    AlphaTrigger said

    Case in point: the largest creditor - bigger than the Chinese and Japanese combined - are US citizens via Social Securiry and Medicare and other entitlements that cannot be made to legislatively disappear without the massive shedding of blood.


    Entitlements don't have to disappear legislatively. They are disappearing empirically. I know because it says so right on my bi-annual Social Security Statement: 'do not expect to receive a full payout if government spending continues at current lvels.' Nice.

    This used to be called highway robbery. The guilty parties are either war profiteers and crony corporatists if you're an Obamacrat, or welfare queens and crony capitalists if you're a Palinista (or welfare queens, war profiteers, and Greenspan-Bernanke if you're a Paultard) but either way I've stopped seeing myself as my own creditor. My grandmother is getting her money back, and good for her, but I won't be retiring unless my recording contract comes through.
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    Apr 06, 2012 9:01 PM GMT
    In short, a punitively enforced Ponzi scheme.

    I have very little faith that the United States will exist in any recognizable form by the time I reach retirement age. The nation-state might still exist, but I suspect it will be a fearful shadow of what once was.

    #Paultards

    I think they are closest to being right - though I'm inclined to give more weight towards institutional forces like the military-industrial complex, crony capitalism, and policies of population control: by keeping the sheep fat, dumb and happy so that the happenings of the Kardashian family or who is tracking at the top of "Dancing With the Stars" is more captivating than the minutiae of congressional maneuverings to encroach upon our freedoms ever more.
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    Apr 06, 2012 10:02 PM GMT
    The Chinese "coming calling" first isn't going to happen and, second, they only own something like 15% of all American debt (don't quote me on the number). The vast majority is owed to the American people.

    What we need is to mount a series campaign between the left and libertarians to get money out of politics.

    Only then can we go about fixing the country.
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    Apr 06, 2012 10:18 PM GMT
    Larkin saidLoL, no. And we have a bizarre historical perspective as coddled citizens of a hyperpower for even entertaining such a silly idea.

    When people at the height of global power, like us Americans, see their real problems grow vanishingly small, even slight variations in their level of soaring prosperity and historically unprecedented peace and comfort become crises.


    The world has seen many global powers of it's time come and go, America will be no diffrent; seems China or India are next in line.
  • KissTheSky

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    Apr 06, 2012 10:58 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidThe Chinese "coming calling" first isn't going to happen and, second, they only own something like 15% of all American debt (don't quote me on the number). The vast majority is owed to the American people.

    What we need is to mount a serious campaign between the left and libertarians to get money out of politics.

    Only then can we go about fixing the country.


    Absolutely correct. Nothing will be solved until the government starts serving the country and its citizens rather than the particular moneyed interests that have bribed them the most. (Maybe "bribe" is the wrong word, since the elites have managed to change the laws to make bribery legal now.)

    I'll go out on a limb and say even some conservatives may join this effort to get corporate money out of politics -- I don't think they like it any more than we do. I've seen polling that reflects that, too.

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    Apr 07, 2012 12:56 AM GMT
    America is not waging a war on "women minorities gays elderly and the poor".

    But the Republican party IS waging a war on middle and lower income Americans.

    The Repubs are looking out for the richest 1% of Americans and corporate America.

    They don't give a shit about average Americans because average Anericans don't write out big checks to the Repub party.

    It's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for the Repubs.
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    Apr 07, 2012 3:52 AM GMT
    Christian73 saidThe Chinese "coming calling" first isn't going to happen and, second, they only own something like 15% of all American debt (don't quote me on the number). The vast majority is owed to the American people....


    As of about this time last year...

    http://www.businessinsider.com/who-owns-us-debt-2011-7#.

    Social Security Trust Fund 19%
    The Federal Reserve 11.3%
    China 8%
    US households 6.6%
    Japan 6.4%
    US State & Local Govts 3.5%
    Private Pensions 3.5%
    United Kingdom 2.4%
    Money Markets 2.4%
    US & State Govt Retirement funds 2.2%
    Banks 2.1%
    Mutual Funds 2%

    Bumper sticker on car in front of me on way home from supermarket: Trickle Up Poverty
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    Apr 07, 2012 4:07 AM GMT
    LAGYM saidIs America waging a Civil War of hate and murder against Women, Minorities, Gays, Elderly and the Poor??
    If they're not, then something has definitely changed over the past several decades.