Religion

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 15, 2008 7:39 PM GMT
    I have seen countless attacks made on religions by gay men and lesbian women.

    I submit that we should respect all religions, even defending them, and let them come to know us as allies, not as enemies.

    How do others feel, and why?
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    Jul 15, 2008 7:51 PM GMT
    I'm for the open and equal ridicule of all religions.

    I feel this way because I think religion is a way to avoid the realities of life. People die, that's it. Nothing after. Shit happens. Not because of god, but because shit happens. Check your own toilet. Shit happens.
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    Jul 15, 2008 8:14 PM GMT
    sundown55 said...I submit that we should respect all religions...

    I believe people deserve respect. Religions are entities without consciousness, which do not get a Pap smear or colonoscopy. I think when discussing religion, an attempt should be made to discuss the religion separately from the adherents. After that condition has been met, I think the religion itself is fair game.
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    Jul 15, 2008 8:15 PM GMT
    Love the religious, hate the religion.
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    Jul 15, 2008 8:21 PM GMT
    McGay saidI'm for the open and equal ridicule of all religions.


    Yeah, baby!
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    Jul 15, 2008 8:27 PM GMT
    Today, I learnt that Muslims pray five time a day. When do they get any work done?
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    Jul 15, 2008 8:37 PM GMT
    All of these "religion" threads are the same people saying the same things.
    If you don't believe, big deal. You can be respectful of the others that do and not make up names for their God or list thing after thing that makes them stupid. It just comes off as cruel and petty.

    If you do believe, big deal. You can be respectful of the others that don't and not choose to quote the bible or other holy text to them because it is useless to them. If you have strong faith, it can't be shaken by someone else's interpretation anyways. If you experience Magick or God or whatever else you believe, someone else's POV can't take that away, so what's the point of arguing.

    The reasons you do believe are stupid to those that don't.
    The reasons you don't believe are stupid to those that do.


    This isn't a conversation amongst people with a common goal of understanding. This is a pissing contest between people who want to prove either how righteous and enlightened they are or how clever they can be.


    It never gets anywhere so I'll maintain a live and let live attitude.

    good times.
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    Jul 15, 2008 8:39 PM GMT
    I'm a rabid atheist. icon_mad.gif Religion doesn't respect our own boundaries by being part of almost every TV program, every story, every political campaign, every lobby group, so why should I respect their boundaries?

    It's like taxes. We pay ours, why shouldn't they?
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jul 15, 2008 8:48 PM GMT
    redheadguy saidToday, I learnt that Muslims pray five time a day. When do they get any work done?



    How much time do you spend on RJ icon_question.gif How do you get any work done icon_question.gif
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    Jul 15, 2008 8:50 PM GMT
    MikePhil said
    redheadguy saidToday, I learnt that Muslims pray five time a day. When do they get any work done?


    How much time do you spend on RJ icon_question.gif How do you get any work done icon_question.gif


    He he....touché, MikePhil
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jul 15, 2008 9:06 PM GMT
    When religions respect me ....
    That's when I'll respect Religions

    gospel according to gqjock... n'ahmen

    Chant amongst yourselvesicon_cool.gif
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jul 15, 2008 9:06 PM GMT
    Sedative saidI'm a rabid atheist. icon_mad.gif Religion doesn't respect our own boundaries by being part of almost every TV program, every story, every political campaign, every lobby group, so why should I respect their boundaries?

    It's like taxes. We pay ours, why shouldn't they?



    You should respect their boundaries, because I respect yours, and I do pay my taxes icon_confused.gif
  • Barricade

    Posts: 457

    Jul 15, 2008 9:07 PM GMT
    McGay saidI'm for the open and equal ridicule of all religions.

    I feel this way because I think religion is a way to avoid the realities of life. People die, that's it. Nothing after. Shit happens. Not because of god, but because shit happens. Check your own toilet. Shit happens.



    What is wrong with believing that there is something beyond death?
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    Jul 15, 2008 9:23 PM GMT
    There's lots after death. Rot, decay, obscurity, etc.

    More seriously, there's just no evidence of it. There's lots of faith about it, but no evidence.
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    Jul 15, 2008 9:30 PM GMT
    There's nothing wrong with it. That's the point...you've chosen to believe that and others haven't.

    I think it is possible to discuss religion separate from the adherents. I notice in threads that discuss religion that most adherents disavow a certain portion of their religion--like a creation story, gays being an abomination, that sort of thing. I've rarely heard of an adherent being "all in."

    For the atheists, it's simply a matter of being "all out."

    I think we can all agree on basic morality, which doesn't require a religion, nor does it exclude religion.
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    Jul 15, 2008 9:57 PM GMT
    There is no progress in pointing fingers at others and saying that their beliefs are flawed. Perhaps they are but that is the believer's responsibility to deal with.

    I have my own qualms with religious beliefs and teachings but I have learned that if two people cant sit down with open minds to discuss their views, progress IS NOT POSSIBLE!

    I am so tired of people bitching about this...
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jul 15, 2008 10:17 PM GMT
    DanteCA saidThere is no progress in pointing fingers at others and saying that their beliefs are flawed. Perhaps they are but that is the believer's responsibility to deal with.

    I have my own qualms with religious beliefs and teachings but I have learned that if two people cant sit down with open minds to discuss their views, progress IS NOT POSSIBLE!

    I am so tired of people bitching about this...



    Amen to that.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 16, 2008 12:19 AM GMT
    The reasons you do believe are stupid to those that don't.
    The reasons you don't believe are stupid to those that do.


    This isn't a conversation amongst people with a common goal of understanding. This is a pissing contest between people who want to prove either how righteous and enlightened they are or how clever they can be.



    Here, here. While I don't believe, not my place to denegrate those who do. I can't understand why, but everybody's got to believe in something, even if it's nothing.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 16, 2008 1:25 AM GMT
    Respectfully, I disagree. I think humanity has moved past the need for religion for cohesion. Religion is counterproductive towards progress.

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    Jul 16, 2008 4:00 AM GMT
    Gosh, I didn't realize the extent of anger and bigotry towards religion from this community until I read this. I'm a big believer in equal acceptance. The opinions noted on this forum, with few exceptions, state generalizations, bigotry, and over-exposure as reasons for why religion is bad. Considering interpretation, there are good religions and bad religions; there are good parts to all religions and bad parts to all religions. The fact of the matter is, it's not going away and the reasons given should be where religion should meet it's limits in public life, not where it meets it's end. It won't happen. It's been here since man first claimed to hear the voice of God, and will be here until the last man claims to hear it. Instead, we should discuss the benefits of religion, and the need for campaigns against bigotry in religion. For more information, see soulforce.org

    Those who disregard religion because of their experiences, should reconsider their approach - a narrow outlook on life is the representation of a limited mind.

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    Jul 16, 2008 4:04 AM GMT
    I don't hear what you're hearing. This thread has been uncommonly kind, thoughtful and rational about religion. Don't go ruining the party.
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    Jul 16, 2008 4:07 AM GMT
    looknrnd saidThose who disregard religion because of their experiences, should reconsider their approach - a narrow outlook on life is the representation of a limited mind.

    And since you're new to posting on this, please stop now, saying that people who disregard religion are the ones with closed minds. You'll not survive a flame war with that attitude. Everyone so far has been civil.
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    Jul 16, 2008 4:15 AM GMT
    Guys, I'm not talking about the rightness or wrongness of religion.

    I'm talking about respecting that which others hold sacred. I guess what I'm talking about is building mutual respect.
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    Jul 16, 2008 4:43 AM GMT
    McGay saidThere's lots after death. Rot, decay, obscurity, etc.

    More seriously, there's just no evidence of it. There's lots of faith about it, but no evidence.


    There might not be evidence to YOUR eyes (Oh Lord, you gave them eyes but they cannot see...), but to those of us who've been declared dead, or experienced a near-death or brief-death event and been brought or sent back, there's all the experience in the universe. Might not have anything to do with God, either. But, I have found that those who are very new souls (on their first incarnation) refuse to accept the idea of anything beyond this mortal coil, because they don't instinctively remember it. So sad, and so selfish, too. I've personally been to The Other Side and back, and I can remember it, so to me it's not even a matter of faith, but a matter of fact.
    One of our greatest thinkers, Albert Einstein, once said...

    "The most beautiful and most profound emotion we can experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt, in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and most radiant beauty, which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their most primitive forms, this knowledge, this feeling, is at the center of true religiousness."

    McGay, I feel sorry for you. Not because you're not religious; hell, I'm not religious. I feel sorry for you because you don't have the willingness to acknowledge that which is greater than yourself, and that you are so cynical and crass about it in your own blindness that your words are insulting to those of us who do believe or have faith or experience.
    I will say though, that too many people allow religion and dogma to interfere with simple faith and spiritual decency, allowing it to be a club to beat others into submission, and that's as bad as having no faith at all.
    Frankly, I too, like many Gays, am angry at the religious people who think they can oppress us because their church says gays are sinful. And I do think churches in America should be taxed. I firmly agree with the Separation of Church and State, and we're seeing dogma and intolerance disguised as religion paraded around the country by hateful, stupid people who have no business even believing what they believe (because they haven't earned such a right if they're gonna use it to oppress us) that I, too, have come to a point of great intolerance for many churches and religions.
  • OptimusMatt

    Posts: 1124

    Jul 16, 2008 6:09 AM GMT
    sundown55 saidGuys, I'm not talking about the rightness or wrongness of religion.

    I'm talking about respecting that which others hold sacred. I guess what I'm talking about is building mutual respect.


    This is true - I'm very much a live and let live kind of person. To be perfectly honest I don't understand the need to bitch about who follows what path - why does it matter? You believe what you want to believe, perhaps it will affect mine, hopefully to enrich it.

    Personally I have issue with the use of faith in general to garner a feeling of superiority over another person - I think that's trite and far from what faith is supposed to be about. Faith is about your close, personal relationship with God, or Gods, or Goddesses, or as I prefer the greater scheme of life. *shrugs*

    Whether there's something out there or if we just turn to dust, faith (from reincarnation all the way down to the finality of those ashes blowing in the wind) should and does provide a mechanism to question the world around you. Ultimately, life is the greatest gift we've got and, regardless of the perception, is the right of us all. Period.