I'm for the open and equal ridicule of all religions.
I feel this way because I think religion is a way to avoid the realities of life. People die, that's it. Nothing after. Shit happens. Not because of god, but because shit happens. Check your own toilet. Shit happens.
sundown55 said...I submit that we should respect all religions...
I believe people deserve respect. Religions are entities without consciousness, which do not get a Pap smear or colonoscopy. I think when discussing religion, an attempt should be made to discuss the religion separately from the adherents. After that condition has been met, I think the religion itself is fair game.
All of these "religion" threads are the same people saying the same things. If you don't believe, big deal. You can be respectful of the others that do and not make up names for their God or list thing after thing that makes them stupid. It just comes off as cruel and petty.
If you do believe, big deal. You can be respectful of the others that don't and not choose to quote the bible or other holy text to them because it is useless to them. If you have strong faith, it can't be shaken by someone else's interpretation anyways. If you experience Magick or God or whatever else you believe, someone else's POV can't take that away, so what's the point of arguing.
The reasons you do believe are stupid to those that don't. The reasons you don't believe are stupid to those that do.
This isn't a conversation amongst people with a common goal of understanding. This is a pissing contest between people who want to prove either how righteous and enlightened they are or how clever they can be.
It never gets anywhere so I'll maintain a live and let live attitude.
I'm a rabid atheist. Religion doesn't respect our own boundaries by being part of almost every TV program, every story, every political campaign, every lobby group, so why should I respect their boundaries?
Sedative saidI'm a rabid atheist. Religion doesn't respect our own boundaries by being part of almost every TV program, every story, every political campaign, every lobby group, so why should I respect their boundaries?
It's like taxes. We pay ours, why shouldn't they?
You should respect their boundaries, because I respect yours, and I do pay my taxes
McGay saidI'm for the open and equal ridicule of all religions.
I feel this way because I think religion is a way to avoid the realities of life. People die, that's it. Nothing after. Shit happens. Not because of god, but because shit happens. Check your own toilet. Shit happens.
What is wrong with believing that there is something beyond death?
There's nothing wrong with it. That's the point...you've chosen to believe that and others haven't.
I think it is possible to discuss religion separate from the adherents. I notice in threads that discuss religion that most adherents disavow a certain portion of their religion--like a creation story, gays being an abomination, that sort of thing. I've rarely heard of an adherent being "all in."
For the atheists, it's simply a matter of being "all out."
I think we can all agree on basic morality, which doesn't require a religion, nor does it exclude religion.
There is no progress in pointing fingers at others and saying that their beliefs are flawed. Perhaps they are but that is the believer's responsibility to deal with.
I have my own qualms with religious beliefs and teachings but I have learned that if two people cant sit down with open minds to discuss their views, progress IS NOT POSSIBLE!
DanteCA saidThere is no progress in pointing fingers at others and saying that their beliefs are flawed. Perhaps they are but that is the believer's responsibility to deal with.
I have my own qualms with religious beliefs and teachings but I have learned that if two people cant sit down with open minds to discuss their views, progress IS NOT POSSIBLE!
The reasons you do believe are stupid to those that don't. The reasons you don't believe are stupid to those that do.
This isn't a conversation amongst people with a common goal of understanding. This is a pissing contest between people who want to prove either how righteous and enlightened they are or how clever they can be.
Here, here. While I don't believe, not my place to denegrate those who do. I can't understand why, but everybody's got to believe in something, even if it's nothing.
Gosh, I didn't realize the extent of anger and bigotry towards religion from this community until I read this. I'm a big believer in equal acceptance. The opinions noted on this forum, with few exceptions, state generalizations, bigotry, and over-exposure as reasons for why religion is bad. Considering interpretation, there are good religions and bad religions; there are good parts to all religions and bad parts to all religions. The fact of the matter is, it's not going away and the reasons given should be where religion should meet it's limits in public life, not where it meets it's end. It won't happen. It's been here since man first claimed to hear the voice of God, and will be here until the last man claims to hear it. Instead, we should discuss the benefits of religion, and the need for campaigns against bigotry in religion. For more information, see soulforce.org
Those who disregard religion because of their experiences, should reconsider their approach - a narrow outlook on life is the representation of a limited mind.
looknrnd saidThose who disregard religion because of their experiences, should reconsider their approach - a narrow outlook on life is the representation of a limited mind.
And since you're new to posting on this, please stop now, saying that people who disregard religion are the ones with closed minds. You'll not survive a flame war with that attitude. Everyone so far has been civil.
McGay saidThere's lots after death. Rot, decay, obscurity, etc.
More seriously, there's just no evidence of it. There's lots of faith about it, but no evidence.
There might not be evidence to YOUR eyes (Oh Lord, you gave them eyes but they cannot see...), but to those of us who've been declared dead, or experienced a near-death or brief-death event and been brought or sent back, there's all the experience in the universe. Might not have anything to do with God, either. But, I have found that those who are very new souls (on their first incarnation) refuse to accept the idea of anything beyond this mortal coil, because they don't instinctively remember it. So sad, and so selfish, too. I've personally been to The Other Side and back, and I can remember it, so to me it's not even a matter of faith, but a matter of fact. One of our greatest thinkers, Albert Einstein, once said...
"The most beautiful and most profound emotion we can experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt, in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and most radiant beauty, which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their most primitive forms, this knowledge, this feeling, is at the center of true religiousness."
McGay, I feel sorry for you. Not because you're not religious; hell, I'm not religious. I feel sorry for you because you don't have the willingness to acknowledge that which is greater than yourself, and that you are so cynical and crass about it in your own blindness that your words are insulting to those of us who do believe or have faith or experience. I will say though, that too many people allow religion and dogma to interfere with simple faith and spiritual decency, allowing it to be a club to beat others into submission, and that's as bad as having no faith at all. Frankly, I too, like many Gays, am angry at the religious people who think they can oppress us because their church says gays are sinful. And I do think churches in America should be taxed. I firmly agree with the Separation of Church and State, and we're seeing dogma and intolerance disguised as religion paraded around the country by hateful, stupid people who have no business even believing what they believe (because they haven't earned such a right if they're gonna use it to oppress us) that I, too, have come to a point of great intolerance for many churches and religions.
sundown55 saidGuys, I'm not talking about the rightness or wrongness of religion.
I'm talking about respecting that which others hold sacred. I guess what I'm talking about is building mutual respect.
This is true - I'm very much a live and let live kind of person. To be perfectly honest I don't understand the need to bitch about who follows what path - why does it matter? You believe what you want to believe, perhaps it will affect mine, hopefully to enrich it.
Personally I have issue with the use of faith in general to garner a feeling of superiority over another person - I think that's trite and far from what faith is supposed to be about. Faith is about your close, personal relationship with God, or Gods, or Goddesses, or as I prefer the greater scheme of life. *shrugs*
Whether there's something out there or if we just turn to dust, faith (from reincarnation all the way down to the finality of those ashes blowing in the wind) should and does provide a mechanism to question the world around you. Ultimately, life is the greatest gift we've got and, regardless of the perception, is the right of us all. Period.
There is a certain amount of satisfaction that comes from having an open and honest dialogue with someone, or a group of people, on this subject. This is especially true when people are willing to actually listen to and provide personal thoughts and experiences to what has been shared.
As a Christian I have been temendously inspired and touched by those of great faith and those who think faith & religion are a waste of time. I love reading and listening to thoughts that differ from mine, it makes me question, reform, and/or strengthen my own beliefs.
Unfortunately what seems to happen far too often, here and in general, is a beligerant bashing of discourse and a forum of soap-boxing.
That said, I agree with the fact that all-in-all this thread has been very civil. How nice. :-)
Well, zeebyaboi, I guess we'll just have to feel sorry for each other. No praying at my pity party, though, please, although you're free to fall to your knees for me.
looknrndInstead, we should discuss the benefits of religion, and the need for campaigns against bigotry in religion.
It's like this: Why is religion the one complaining about bigotry now? For millenia religions were the primary vehicles of bigotry; against other religions, nonbelievers, and their own people who break the religious laws even when it's not a choice (being gay for example).
Isn't it funny that the tables are slowly being turned now, they find that it's not so nice to be discriminated against really. These are the same people who declared gays should be stoned to death.
Yes it's a bad idea to challenge the faith (or lack of it) in other people, but Religions themselves are public institutions. They can take flak as much as any other public institutions without having to cry foul for being too personal.
Remember, one man's trash is another man's treasure. You can't expect a Christian to stop eating beef just because the Hindus are offended by it.
We moved, we survived it, and we now live next to the BEACH!(not waterfront, but hey!)
Sometimes I detest the religous, sometimes, (though rarely) the religion. It's the religious that interpret the religion, including the thousands of years of word of mouth thing before finally writing it down. Anyone see the Oreo cakes commercial? Word of mouth alright, then the last kid says out loud,
"Bobbie's just got his first chest hair?!?" I cracked up. So it's wise to take it all with a grain of salt, but for me, to realize there's likely a grain of truth.
My volunteer work (palliative) has brought me into an understanding that will bore some of you, and inspire others. I write about it by couching it in adult fiction.
Atheists are absolutely necessary to strip the blinkers and resulting tunnel- vision from the devout. The devout hold out a candle for those that see their mortality darkly. Both fit beautifully into some grand design that at times I nearly comprehend. So, when atheists and believers go at it in a thread like this one, I believe they're doing what each is supposed to do, providing weight to both sides and so creating a balance.
Whatever creates us all is very, very clever.
Here's a bit of the fiction....or is it?
"Juladd looked at Frank, and just as he wondered if Frank would say anything, the whole house changed. It was as though the walls abruptly evaporated and some enormous moon arose, or planet or even, in the mind’s eye, a face, rising huge and present across the entire horizon. His hair lifted itself in response. It changed to a deep gold. His inner senses made a leap, and he felt the Maker across his self like sunlight pouring in a window, warm and intense. Frank Looked at Janice and slid his hand up to her shoulder. As usual, the move was smooth; it emoted. Janice gazed from Frank to Juladd and the moment was terrifying but underlined with an intriguing sense of joy, flipping swiftly into elation as he saw her expression change.
Janice felt her whole self give a great throb of terror and then, amazingly, a nostalgic sense of recognition, then a strange happiness that was plainly senseless. Her sensation of recognition bloomed into realization as she knew, without doubt, that God existed, and more, was in her and around her, like the atoms she was made of but even finer than that. Invisible, gossamer, yet as easy to see as her own hand, the Maker was present. Frank shone with it. He had been in a blank rationalization of the way things were in the world when he started truly listening to the words of his thoughts and felt dismay. Frank, who had truly come so far away from his old self. Hermet-ish and habitual, he had gone on a date and his life had changed. It was trite and pedestrian, but also a brilliant colour that her mind’s Eyes picked up immediately. She could taste this colour too, and did, relishing the tones of herself in it. How would she, could she ever explain this? The Maker was huge in her. Kindness, warmness, elation, all warred in her for dominance. At the same time, they dovetailed each other in what she perceived as a sentence. Wordless yet descriptive, Janice received her first Directive through her Frank." -excerpt from 'A Ribbon of Beauty'
Whether I believe in something or someone looking down from somewhere at me or not has nothing to do with this argument But it has EVERYTHING to do with a bunch of people getting together every week or so and chanting hymns and prayers about how to exclude a certain group of people from society and love and figure out ways in which to do it
THAT .... I don't respect and neither should anyone
GQjock saidWhether I believe in something or someone looking down from somewhere at me or not has nothing to do with this argument But it has EVERYTHING to do with a bunch of people getting together every week or so and chanting hymns and prayers about how to exclude a certain group of people from society and love and figure out ways in which to do it
THAT .... I don't respect and neither should anyone
I go to Church every Sunday, and if what you say went on there I would not be there. I am proud and happy to say, that I have no idea what you are talking about.
Guy in the striped shirt takes a cracker hostage in the Brompton Oratory, London, on 13th July 2008. The Catholic Church forfeits all rights to respect for its ludicrous beliefs, including 'transubstantiation', while its anti-condom campaign in Africa results in tens of thousands of deaths. The cracker will be kept wrapped in a condom until the Catholic Church recognises the legitimacy of the Golden Rule.
GQjock saidWhether I believe in something or someone looking down from somewhere at me or not has nothing to do with this argument But it has EVERYTHING to do with a bunch of people getting together every week or so and chanting hymns and prayers about how to exclude a certain group of people from society and love and figure out ways in which to do it
THAT .... I don't respect and neither should anyone
I go to Church every Sunday, and if what you say went on there I would not be there. I am proud and happy to say, that I have no idea what you are talking about.
I don't see anything wrong with you going to Church every Sunday If that makes you feel better that's wonderful But it's people like this and situations like this one that have taken Christianity and turned it on its ear
That was horrible. Something like this just happened up here in Canada and the Supreme court gave that particular marriage commissionaire a good slap. A justice of the peace performing state (non-religious) marriages has no right to excercise his or her personal religious beliefs in the execution of their duties.
What would Jesus say? Too busy weeping over the hell that men and women have made with his words.
McGay saidI'm for the open and equal ridicule of all religions.
I feel this way because I think religion is a way to avoid the realities of life. People die, that's it. Nothing after. Shit happens. Not because of god, but because shit happens. Check your own toilet. Shit happens.
I am not religious, however I am a Christian who loves Jesus, it's a personal relationship. (religion is based on tradition). I would like to just put forward that I have read and studied the Bible, I find it to be true, backed up by both science and archeology. not once, not twice... but all the time. before throwing comments about like that, and "There's lots after death. Rot, decay, obscurity, etc. More seriously, there's just no evidence of it. There's lots of faith about it, but no evidence."
I should like to ask, what evidence have you studied, let alone looked for? have you studied the evidence for and against? Or are you just going by your worldly logic? No matter what you say, worldly knowledge can explain very little.
Lee Stroble, Case for Christ, started against what the Bible said, but in writing the book... found that the Bible was supported by EVIDENCE that would hold up in a court of law.
Just so as I remain to the topic of this thread... Jesus did not mention homosexuality... not once. BUT, mentioned divorce quite a bit. Hmmmm. As far as I know, there is no mention in the Bible of where it says that homosexuality is wrong. Where it says that, is where there was a time where everyone was doing everyone, and selling their children and wives for it. THAT is what it refers to. So I'd have to say that Bible-based Christians will be more respectful when it comes to homosexuality itself.
mnjock2003 saidAll of these "religion" threads are the same people saying the same things. If you don't believe, big deal. You can be respectful of the others that do and not make up names for their God or list thing after thing that makes them stupid. It just comes off as cruel and petty.
If you do believe, big deal. You can be respectful of the others that don't and not choose to quote the bible or other holy text to them because it is useless to them. If you have strong faith, it can't be shaken by someone else's interpretation anyways. If you experience Magick or God or whatever else you believe, someone else's POV can't take that away, so what's the point of arguing.
The reasons you do believe are stupid to those that don't. The reasons you don't believe are stupid to those that do.
This isn't a conversation amongst people with a common goal of understanding. This is a pissing contest between people who want to prove either how righteous and enlightened they are or how clever they can be.
It never gets anywhere so I'll maintain a live and let live attitude.
Lee Stroble, Case for Christ, started against what the Bible said, but in writing the book... found that the Bible was supported by EVIDENCE that would hold up in a court of law.
*snicker*
Lee Strobel is FAR from being AGAINST what the Bible said.
From 'The Rest of the Story' by Jeffery Lowder In light of Strobel's frequent reminders that he used to be a hard-nosed, skeptical journalist, I skimmed the table of contents and index to see which critics of Christianity he interviewed. In so doing, I discovered a glaring deficiency in Strobel's journalism: Strobel did not interview any critics of Christian apologetics, even though he attacks such individuals in his book.
GQjock saidWhether I believe in something or someone looking down from somewhere at me or not has nothing to do with this argument But it has EVERYTHING to do with a bunch of people getting together every week or so and chanting hymns and prayers about how to exclude a certain group of people from society and love and figure out ways in which to do it
THAT .... I don't respect and neither should anyone
I go to Church every Sunday, and if what you say went on there I would not be there. I am proud and happy to say, that I have no idea what you are talking about.
I don't see anything wrong with you going to Church every Sunday If that makes you feel better that's wonderful But it's people like this and situations like this one that have taken Christianity and turned it on its ear
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I Wonder what Jesus might say about this???
My point was, that what you say goes on in Church, I have never seen, or heard anything like that.
But in reply to your video (and I still haven't seen it all, as it is still downloading) I just thank God that I live in Ireland. I think all you guys over there should move to Ireland I would take you to Church every Sunday
I don't see what this has to do with Christianity. You can pick any group of people, and you will find stupid people among them. They do not represent Christianity as I know it.
What would Jesus say? He would say "Father forgive them, for they do not know what they talk about"
the general consensus is that religion is bad. especially if you're gay.
i think there are like 2 or 3 people on this site who think otherwise. power to them- but they can't save us. we don't believe we need saving. :p
one can't take religions seriously and respect them at the same time- because to take any one organized religion seriously means to buy into it completely, and that means that everyone but your percentage of the population is wrong and will burn in hell forever. if you try to 'respect' all of them equally, it means you don't buy into any of them, which is basically just patronizing them. that's the best i've been able to manage.
although i have a hard time turning a blind eye to the atrocities committed and bigotries cultivated in their names.
the general consensus is that religion is bad. especially if you're gay.
i think there are like 2 or 3 people on this site who think otherwise. power to them- but they can't save us. we don't believe we need saving. :p
one can't take religions seriously and respect them at the same time- because to take any one organized religion seriously means to buy into it completely, and that means that everyone but your percentage of the population is wrong and will burn in hell forever. if you try to 'respect' all of them equally, it means you don't buy into any of them, which is basically just patronizing them. that's the best i've been able to manage.
although i have a hard time turning a blind eye to the atrocities committed and bigotries cultivated in their names.
I agree, that we all know what we all think, but the rest I disagree with, and judging by the number of private emails I get about religion, there are a lot more than 2 or 3.
When it come to religion, nonbelievers tend to listen to the stupid people, because it works in there favour. Just look at GQ's video, the guy that says it is a choice to be with a man or a woman, but for him it is not a choice Stupidness.
"nonbelievers tend to listen to the stupid people, because it works in there favour"
mikephil, u know i love ya- but that was just asinine. and misspelled. its religious zealots who tend to ignore science, logic, reason, truth, fact, and educated opinions in favor of blind 'faith.' this is common knowledge. one can not be ardently religious until one practices such closed-mindedness. not to mention the very well documented trend of organized religions flourishing in impoverished third world countries, and in the poorly educated country-bumpkin-boondocks of those nations lucky enough to be more developed.
example: its from these largely uneducated, ignorant masses that we get such beliefs as 'the forest fires in america are god's wrath against the gays getting married in california.' um, why must the forest critters be punished for our practices of true love? its retarded.
christians don't invade other countries? ever? really? you know, its thanks to christian missionaries and puritan exiles from europe that america was initially born- and the 'savage pagans' who lived here are wiped out. i think christianity has, in its time, conquered by force most areas of the world, at one time or another. more blood has been spilt for jesus's sake than for any other cause in human history. in fact, there are a LOT of fundamentalist christians in this country who support our invasions as being the 'spreading of christianity' and democracy... truthfully, those idiots are about the only people here who aren't ashamed of our government's actions- a government headed by a 'strong christian' who has made more than a profession out of kissing christian asses. so get off that high horse mikey, cause its looking kinda narcoleptic and u don't wana be up there when it falls.
and i'm sorry if it was merely a political issue to be hammered out between irish and british- i had always been led to believe it was Catholics vs Protestants. cause lets face it- people don't blow each other up over politics nearly as often as they do over what name of god is best.
and none of those insults were at YOU mikey, they were for christianity. which you are decidedly not. its rather big. you're pretty small. and its not all about you.
besides which, i notice you have nothing to say in retort against religions being cesspools of ignorance. i guess i can't blame u- there's really nothing well founded TO be said to the contrary. lol
"It's rather ironic that a religion which so publicly proclaims Absolute Love as its basis should, over the course of history, spawn so much unmitigated hatred and violence. Is it simply that Christianity is a failure in inspiring better conduct from otherwise hopelessly evil human beings, or is there some aspect of Christianity which in fact encourages or promotes some of the baser aspects of human behavior? Perhaps it is a bit of both.
Concern about rampant violence has become ever more central in public discussions in America recently, especially where it involves the nation's youth. Recent incidents of brutal and deadly attacks by children against children have prompted an intense debate as to the cause and solutions for what is perceived as degenerating culture. It is rather ironic that the increase in attention happens at a time when actual incidents of violence are decreasing. Not only are the general statistics of violence showing a dramatic decrease with increasing rates of decrease, but even violence against children is decreasing.
But it is a truism that exceptional cases make for bad law and bad legal precedents. Following along in parallel, the exceptional cases of youth violence are being used by opportunistic politicians and religious leaders to create genuinely bad laws. Simple people are searching for simple causes and simple solutions.
The simplest among them immediately claim that the cause for youth violence must be the lack of government supported religion in children's lives, so their natural conclusion is that our government should increase its involvement with religion. And not just any religion - Christianity is the first and usually only choice. Practical policy suggestions include daily prayers, bible readings, and the ever popular posting of the Ten Commandments.
It would perhaps be unacceptable in some circles to point out the fact that in many European countries, religion plays an even smaller role in people's lives than it does in America - yet levels of violence are lower than here. Were a lack of religion any sort of cause of violence, then we would find higher amounts of violence in countries like Germany rather than Ireland, where both religion and violence have been prominent in daily life.
Facts like this must lead any rational person to treat claim of religion as a solution to our ills - real or perceived - with real skepticism. Religion has in fact done even more to promote base inhumanity when it has become wedded to ruling political powers. It has been a common pattern throughout human history that wherever religious dogmas have gained worldly power, violence was abetted rather than stopped. Even if a person were to successfully argue that none of the violence was caused by religion, the fact would remain that religion not only failed to stop it, but has actually served as a useful tool for those perpetuating it.
Is Christianity only a religion of Peace and Love? I do not think that anyone can honestly and objectively examine American or European history and answer "yes" to that question. Christianity can encourage Peace and Love - but it certainly need not, and it quite often has done just the opposite. Although the people responsible for violence might have found a way to express their hatred without Christianity, it cannot be ignored that Christianity offers a convenient divine mandate for hatred and violent acts against a wide range of people.
In each case, religion has served as a principle catalyst for the violence or has, at the very least, assisted in justifying and perpetuating that violence."
czarodziej saidchristians don't invade other countries? ever? really? you know, its thanks to christian missionaries and puritan exiles from europe that america was initially born- and the 'savage pagans' who lived here are wiped out. i think christianity has, in its time, conquered by force most areas of the world, at one time or another. more blood has been spilt for jesus's sake than for any other cause in human history. so get off that high horse mikey, cause its looking kinda narcoleptic and u don't wana be up there when it falls.
and i'm sorry if it was merely a political issue to be hammered out between irish and british- i had always been led to believe it was Catholics vs Protestants. cause lets face it- people don't blow each other up over politics nearly as often as they do over what name of god is best.
and none of those insults were at YOU mikey, they were for christianity. which you are decidedly not. its rather big. you're pretty small. and its not all about you.
LOL, be careful you continue to make my point for me. When I said, we do not invade other countries, I meant the Irish not Christians, but once again it works in your favour to say Christians.
The Irish were Catholic, the British were Protestant, so religion was used by some as the reason. I personally can not see where religion comes into the troubles in Ireland. Just as it is used as an excuse in other parts of the world. And I stress EXCUSE, not reason.
If you are going to insult Christians, and particularly Irish ones, you will have to forgive me if I feel insulted by it. It's like insulting gays, and saying to a gay guy that feels insulted my it, that you don't mean him. Like Patision's stupidness, where he says I'm a member of a terrorist organisation, but he did not say I was a terrorist. I mean, how stupid do you think I am? Christians are bad, but your OK Mike
well i donno why you're discussing the irish- this is a forum on RELIGION. i believe the irish were brought up by someone else for some reason or another, and i merely pointed to its religious turmoil. i never insulted ireland, or the irish. so they blow each other up? lots of people do. big whoop. never said that was bad.
and if you want to keep victimizing yourself, be my guest. i really don't care- you're just making yourself miserable.
btw, you still haven't refuted anything- just 'taken offense.' that's not the same as an intelligent debate, or even discussion. such things can get offensive; suck it up. its so difficult to have good conversation in these forums when we have to tiptoe over eggshells for YOU. please, if you're going to defend religion, great- its more than welcome- but use facts and evidence and arguments to support said perspective... the whole 'emotionally wounded' schtick is old and boring.
i get told on a weekly basis here in america by someone or another that 'oh, i don't agree with gay marriage or being gay- its against my religion- but you're ok.' i respond, 'but do you really believe i'll burn in hell just for being myself?' to which they reply, 'wel.... um.... that's what my religion says i have to believe. butdon'tgetmewrong,you'recoolanditsnoneofmybusinessanyways.' which is a cute sentiment, except that i can't stomach friends who think i'll burn in hell forever. in the end though, most people are ignorant and insensitive- its life- get over it and take what you can get; if someone likes you for you but is rubbed the wrong way by an organization you're part of or beliefs you hold... take it and run with it. you're not gonna get any better.
redheadguy saidToday, I learnt that Muslims pray five time a day. When do they get any work done?
Even if they prayed 30 minutes every time...that works out to 150 minutes or 2 1/2 hours every day. There are 1440 minutes in a day... 1440-150=1290 minutes left in the day. Even if you cut out 8 hours for sleep and 30 minutes for each prayer session, that still leaves 810 minutes in your day (13.5 hours)
Sorry. I really have a thing against ridiculing religion. Yes, there are many people in the world that use the influence of religion in a negative way, but ridicule them and the hypocrisy that they engage in, not the religion.
America has done, and continues to do bad things. Do you support your country, even if you do not support the bad things your country has done?
Police officers have used their power to do bad things. Do you support your police force, even if you do not support the bad they have done?
Reading all the religion threads and your last few posts, all I can say (and I really do not mean to offend anyone) is, America is one messed up country.
I will now go and lock my doors and barricade my windows
redheadguy saidToday, I learnt that Muslims pray five time a day. When do they get any work done?
Even if they prayed 30 minutes every time...that works out to 150 minutes or 2 1/2 hours every day. There are 1440 minutes in a day... 1440-150=1290 minutes left in the day. Even if you cut out 8 hours for sleep and 30 minutes for each prayer session, that still leaves 810 minutes in your day (13.5 hours)
Sorry. I really have a thing against ridiculing religion. Yes, there are many people in the world that use the influence of religion in a negative way, but ridicule them and the hypocrisy that they engage in, not the religion.
It is pointless trying to tell them that. You are new here I think? You should read the rest of the religion threads.
Have you ever tried pissing against the wind Well it is much the same as talking to some nonbelievers around here
lol which is easier than being one of the non-religious many, having to watch the religious few piss on themselves in self-deprecation and victimhood. the world's out to get them!
lions and tigers and bears indeed.
mikey, if you support religion so ardently, what i'm asking is for you to say, for once, why that is. what is so fabulous about your religion? what good does it do? it'd have to be a lot of good to counter the evils it spawns in the world between men and nations. i don't just mean christianity, though its the worst offender in the west; i mean any organized religion, as that's the topic here.
to answer you: one's country is supported despite its corruption because it sustains us and provides for us; police are supported because they protect us and risk their lives for us when a few of them aren't abusing their power; religion....... im drawing a blank. community? u get that in a special interest's club. spiritual health? you can do that on your own. truth? no such thing, in absolute terms- or in any case, we don't know it for shure. love? that's what family and friends are for. morals? they're a necessary social construct subject to evolution... having nothing to do with god. education? well, it used to handle that but we have schools now.
honestly, this is a forum thread posing the question of why there's debate over religion, and so the discussion should, ideally, be either in favor of religion or against it; and as in any good discussion or debate, there should be rational, defendable arguments on both sides. we have opinions, and we support them with facts or reasons... you just whine about how unfair everyone is to you. we don't really care. join the discussion- we'd love to have you- or start another thread devoted to your woundedness.
'ridicule them and the hypocrisy that they engage in, not the religion.'
i more/less agree with this...
except to mention that in many cases, the dogma and fundamentalism of religion, demanding absolute obedience and faith to the exclusion of science and other facts of life and the world around us, as well as the active discouragement of actual humanitarianism through open-mindedness, often encourages the hypocrisy and evil of the religions' practitioners. religion is a fertile ground in which small minds cultivate whole cash-crops of hatred and judgement. ok, the religions are great on paper- like communism- but the attempt to avidly practice them leads the majority of their followers into dark and corrupted states of mind and spirit.
czarodziej saidlol which is easier than being one of the non-religious many, having to watch the religious few piss on themselves in self-deprecation and victimhood. the world's out to get them!
lions and tigers and bears indeed.
mikey, if you support religion so ardently, what i'm asking is for you to say, for once, why that is. what is so fabulous about your religion? what good does it do? it'd have to be a lot of good to counter the evils it spawns in the world between men and nations. i don't just mean christianity, though its the worst offender in the west; i mean any organized religion, as that's the topic here.
to answer you: one's country is supported despite its corruption because it sustains us and provides for us; police are supported because they protect us and risk their lives for us when a few of them aren't abusing their power; religion....... im drawing a blank. community? u get that in a special interest's club. spiritual health? you can do that on your own. truth? no such thing, in absolute terms- or in any case, we don't know it for shure. love? that's what family and friends are for. morals? they're a necessary social construct subject to evolution... having nothing to do with god. education? well, it used to handle that but we have schools now.
honestly, this is a forum thread posing the question of why there's debate over religion, and so the discussion should, ideally, be either in favor of religion or against it; and as in any good discussion or debate, there should be rational, defendable arguments on both sides. we have opinions, and we support them with facts or reasons... you just whine about how unfair everyone is to you. we don't really care. join the discussion- we'd love to have you- or start another thread devoted to your woundedness.
and i agree, america's pretty f-ed up lol
I never started any of those threads and would never. My religion is a private matter. It is what I believe and I do not need to justify it to anyone. I have never imposed it on anyone and I do not disrespect anyone that does not have the same belief as me. Now, why can I not have the same in return? I do not condone the bad that some in the Catholic Church have done. And if you believe that the Catholic Church has done no good, then all I can say is educate yourself. I wish you would stop being so arrogant with me. Why do you think every time I defend myself as a Catholic, that I am whining? If I were bashing gays, or Americans would you not defend yourself? I can think of one or two threads where you were whining
You posted here complaining about another thread on religion, yet you keep it going. Now just stop it. You and I will never agree on religion. Every time you think something bad about Christians, just think what a nice guy MikePhil is and say to yourself "not all Christians are bad" Go on, type the words here. You can do it
your religion is a private matter? than why all the posts in here?
i never said all christians are bad- that's your own delusion about the ideas of others, not mine. and you still haven't justified organized religion, which is what this thread is asking for. no, i won't 'stop it,' as long as there are forums on religion that pose the question of why they get a bad wrap, i will be more than happy to point out exactly why, offending no specific individual; aside from the inevitable YOU. but you're collateral damage in that sense at this point- there's no way to have opinions on religion without bruising you somehow. and what good has the catholic church done? after it eradicated tens of millions of people in the last 2000 years and gave us the dark ages, what good did it do? does it feed starving kids in Africa? sometimes- but they have to pledge their souls to the church. and how many people do you think the church could afford to feed if it liquidated the vast wealth in its treasuries and practiced what it preached regarding money? i guess you really have no reasons for your intense identification with your religion... lol that's fine though- maybe its like love- it doesn't always need a list of reasons ;) though its easy enough to make a list of reasons not to love specific people.
see, now why couldn't you think of something concise and powerful to say like that in religion's defense? :p its not much we're looking for here from you- just something more than whining- which you're still doing, even in this most recent post.
and this? "I have never imposed it on anyone and I do not disrespect anyone that does not have the same belief as me." is BS.
"nonbelievers tend to listen to the stupid people, because it works in there favour."
you regularly slap down the 'nonbelievers' as being somehow broken or less than you are, as a catholic (that sanctimonious piety is one of the many loathsome things about religion in general). and furthermore, that your beliefs qualify you for martyrdom, as everyone is against you.
"It's amazing how when I generalise on here, I get slapped across the face for it, but it is acceptable for others Would it have anything to do with the fact that I'm Catholic?"
yes, mikey, its because you're catholic. the world is out to get you because you're catholic. you can never be right or respected by anyone in this wide world because you're catholic, and people aren't going to agree with your ideas and opinions all of the time- because you're catholic. damn them all to hell. and no one likes you because they all think you're a child molesting priest. you should just move to a desert island somewhere.
lol see how silly that sounds when your implications are expounded upon?
czarodziej saidyour religion is a private matter? than why all the posts in here?
i never said all christians are bad- that's your own delusion about the ideas of others, not mine. and you still haven't justified organized religion, which is what this thread is asking for. no, i won't 'stop it,' as long as there are forums on religion that pose the question of why they get a bad wrap, i will be more than happy to point out exactly why, offending no specific individual; aside from the inevitable YOU. but you're collateral damage in that sense at this point- there's no way to have opinions on religion without bruising you somehow. and what good has the catholic church done? after it eradicated tens of millions of people in the last 2000 years and gave us the dark ages, what good did it do? does it feed starving kids in Africa? sometimes- but they have to pledge their souls to the church. and how many people do you think the church could afford to feed if it liquidated the vast wealth in its treasuries and practiced what it preached regarding money? i guess you really have no reasons for your intense identification with your religion... lol that's fine though- maybe its like love- it doesn't always need a list of reasons ;) though its easy enough to make a list of reasons not to love specific people.
see, now why couldn't you think of something concise and powerful to say like that in religion's defense? :p its not much we're looking for here from you- just something more than whining- which you're still doing, even in this most recent post.
and this? "I have never imposed it on anyone and I do not disrespect anyone that does not have the same belief as me." is BS.
"nonbelievers tend to listen to the stupid people, because it works in there favour."
you regularly slap down the 'nonbelievers' as being somehow broken or less than you are, as a catholic (that sanctimonious piety is one of the many loathsome things about religion in general). and furthermore, that your beliefs qualify you for martyrdom, as everyone is against you.
"It's amazing how when I generalise on here, I get slapped across the face for it, but it is acceptable for others Would it have anything to do with the fact that I'm Catholic?"
yes, mikey, its because you're catholic. the world is out to get you because you're catholic. you can never be right or respected by anyone in this wide world because you're catholic, and people aren't going to agree with your ideas and opinions all of the time- because you're catholic. damn them all to hell. and no one likes you because they all think you're a child molesting priest. you should just move to a desert island somewhere.
lol see how silly that sounds when your implications are expounded upon?
I think my first impressions of you were correct. Your game here is to insult. You can point out all my insults if it makes you happy, but if you were listening to me in other threads, I said I will continue to generalise as long as others do, just like you. And I seem to have hit a nerve with you. You'll get over it. Just start another thread whining about something and I will be right over to make you feel better
My religion is a private matter, but if I'm going to be insulted, then yes, I will post here.
aw cute- still whining and saying nothing of any real import- how like you. well, to each their own. whatever gets ur rocks off mikey. but sympathy is something earned, not demanded, and no one in here wants to hear your frequent demands for it any longer, as far as religion posts are concerned. the more you insist that anyone who doesn't agree with christianity is on a deeply-felt life quest/mission to insult you at every turn... the more we will become frustrated with you and be motivated to just throw intelligent conversation aside and insult you outright. you, more than anyone i've ever 'met,' inspire me to say mean things to you, and its not even like me. i just can't stand your sniveling.
i'm afraid, to the blindly faithful, all of the intelligent argument and well founded points of interest in the world would only seem as babble- i say this because every post i've made thus far has been relevant, pertinent, and defendable in lieu of this forum's topic- so lock yourself up in your tower of babel and see if anyone misses you; its so like an avid christian to refuse to enter into discussion on their beliefs about god and men- how common and boorish to simply discredit all stimulating conversation on such things, which differs from their own ideas, as an attack upon them personally? perhaps they simply don't know as much about their own beliefs as their opponents do, and therefor have nothing useful to say in defense?
you're boring me. i've made my point exhaustively. you've yet to make yours; carry on.
You are the one starting threads looking for sympathy
I have a tendency not to even try, and debate anything with arrogant people, and your very first reply to me was very arrogant. And you continue to insult, so forgive me, if I don't discuss with you. You have to grow up first.
i have never posted for sympathy- though once, i posted a forum for constructive advice in my personal life- however i see a distinct difference between the two. I don't lament the big mean unfair world and how everyone is out to get me or offend and insult me. that's a very juvenile perspective- and others have noted it here before, insisting that you need to lighten up and stop interpreting every dislike of christianity as a personal insult at you. you think like a 5 year old, and despite your chronologically old age, it is you, my friend, who have some psychological maturation to do. good luck with that.
czarodziej saidi have never posted for sympathy- though once, i posted a forum for constructive advice in my personal life- however i see a distinct difference between the two. I don't lament the big mean unfair world and how everyone is out to get me or offend and insult me. that's a very juvenile perspective- and others have noted it here before, insisting that you need to lighten up and stop interpreting every dislike of christianity as a personal insult at you. you think like a 5 year old, and despite your chronologically old age, it is you, my friend, who have some psychological maturation to do. good luck with that.
the smiley emoticons don't make you cute, btw.
Like I said you need to grow up.
Your threads were just poor little me threads.
All I am doing is defending myself against your insults and when I tried a few posts back to stop this in a nice way, you came back at me with all the insults you could think of.
You are not very mature are you
I know the smiley emoticons don't make me cute, it is my youthful good looks that make me look cute
looknrnd saidThose who disregard religion because of their experiences, should reconsider their approach - a narrow outlook on life is the representation of a limited mind.
And since you're new to posting on this, please stop now, saying that people who disregard religion are the ones with closed minds. You'll not survive a flame war with that attitude. Everyone so far has been civil.
How was that uncivil compared to the rest of the postings? Where was the attitude? I'm totally confused! Don't we all want open minds? Why is it bad to expect that about religion as well? I think you thought I was saying something bad about atheists, while I was talking about people who say bad things about religion because of their experiences. Slamming religion is different from just not believing. In the same light, not believing out of anger for religion is unhealthy - just as making any decision out of anger is unhealthy. I don't slam atheists or people of different religions, and I try not to slam anyone in general, but ignorance is disgusting. Though it was not my intention, if I angered anyone, I apologize!
Also, I don't think any good person is going to hell, or if any hell real exists. I just believe in the philosophy of loving one another equally as Jesus proposed. If a priest 1600 years ago wanted to turn religion as his stepping stone into power, that's his problem. That's one reason I don't affiliate myself with a church, just a type of belief. But, I have no right to tell a church supporter that he is wrong for doing so now.
Now, lets hold hands folks, and let us pray! Or, Not! We can opt to skip together?
OK czarodziej, we will never agree on religion. I think we both know that. But I think we should respect each other. I will try not to use any smiley emoticons, I will just rely on my youthful good looks to look cute.
I'm sorry about what I said about the threads you started. I don't think they were poor little me threads, if I did I wouldn't have posted to them. That was childish of me, so sorry.
I did feel insulted by your replies to me, but maybe you didn't mean to insult. I'm sorry for my insults to you.
I don't know what else to say.
HUGS
BTW, The having you by the throat thing was a joke.
Religion doesn't respect our own boundaries by being part of almost every TV program, every story, every political campaign, every lobby group, so why should I respect their boundaries?
How do you get any work done 
I would take you to Church every Sunday 
