Moral Behaviour In Animals

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    Apr 17, 2012 12:59 PM GMT
    Animals besides humans, hehe

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    Apr 17, 2012 1:11 PM GMT
    <3 reading his book for class
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    Apr 17, 2012 1:41 PM GMT
    Ahaha those capuchins are hilarious. This will be good for my enviro ethics final
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    Apr 17, 2012 7:36 PM GMT
    A common mistake amoung earlier biologists and by extention the general public is that humans evolved all their characteristics over time but animals stopped evolving at the stage where they branched off. This was a ridiculous notion, of course. Animals, such as the chimps shown in this film were continuously evolving at the same time that humans were.

    Also, I have often wondered where our more complex emotions came from or their potiential, if not from the earlier animals that we evolved from.
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    Apr 18, 2012 3:14 AM GMT
    I saw this. I like it. So funny and cute.

    Go to 13:49 for the absolute best part!!!!!
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    Apr 18, 2012 3:40 AM GMT
    alexander7 saidA common mistake amoung earlier biologists and by extention the general public is that humans evolved all their characteristics over time but animals stopped evolving at the stage where they branched off. This was a ridiculous notion, of course. Animals, such as the chimps shown in this film were continuously evolving at the same time that humans were.

    Also, I have often wondered where our more complex emotions came from or their potiential, if not from the earlier animals that we evolved from.


    i think there is,among earlier scientists, the general fallacy of "anthropocentrism".. that is to assume that, just because emotions and consciousness are prevalent in humans, that that means they are EXCLUSIVE to humans... this is as ridiculous as the ladybug thinking that just because it has red with black spots, that it is the ONLY animal that has these red and black spots lol...

    Funny enough, the anthropocentrists will staunchly deny the fallacy of their own thinking, by reiterating the "uniqueness" of their own consciousness and emotions, and considering people who disagree with them of "anthropomorphic" thinkers: as in, that people have a tendency to ascribe human traits to animals, and that that is why we think they have consciousness and emotions..

    however, this last claim rests on yet another fallacy: "anthropomorphism" refers to the human tendency to "interpret" animal behaviour as indicative of emotion "as if" they were human, that is to say, when a human sees a dog or dolphin's upturned mouth, we tend to assume they are smiling and are "happy". this is the anthropomorphic fallacy.. animals know the feeling of "happiness" but they communicate it in unique ways... i.e., when a chimpanzee is smiling, it is not happy, but angry, and thus we humans commit the act yet again of anthropocentrism, namely, to assume that just because WE communicate as such, that animals will so too. The same fallacy is found in ethnocentrism, where members of a certai ethnic group tend to consider themselves "civilised" and all others as "barbarians"... living beings are an egocentric bunch
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    Apr 18, 2012 4:47 AM GMT
    alexander7 saidA common mistake amoung earlier biologists and by extention the general public is that humans evolved all their characteristics over time but animals stopped evolving at the stage where they branched off. This was a ridiculous notion, of course. Animals, such as the chimps shown in this film were continuously evolving at the same time that humans were.

    Also, I have often wondered where our more complex emotions came from or their potiential, if not from the earlier animals that we evolved from.


    I was never under the impression that evolution stopped, rather, I'd think evolution's nature to be ongoing, whether the evolution of the body or of consciousness.

    As to so-called evolved traits such as empathy and reciprocity, I posted youtubes on that in this thread...

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2264993?forumpage=0

    Showing empathy not unique to humans.

    theantijock said
    GAMRican saidCompassion.




    And the cooperation experiments here

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2264993?forumpage=1

    theantijock said







    Though there might be various levels of sophistication of consciousness among differing species, I wouldn't be so presumptuous to assume that just because we might not detect or otherwise recognize empathy in lizards as we do in dogs that it does not exist there, esoterically speaking, of course, not for empirical, practical purposes.

    It could just be that our emotional capacity, that our consciousness is not any more complex than a tree's, but that we're just such drama queens about it.
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    Apr 18, 2012 5:50 PM GMT
    Wow, this is my favorite thread ever.
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    Apr 18, 2012 5:53 PM GMT
    theantijock said

    .

    Hmm, he says "sans religion".that brings up another interesting animal phenomenon: ritualised mourning of the dead.. it has been observed in elephants and birds, that certain rituals are performed by friends and relatives of deceased animals, and that locations of death are remembered and constantly visited afterwards, usually with the same ritual taking place.... that in itself, to me, seems close to something of a religion...
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    Apr 18, 2012 7:59 PM GMT
    When they were showing the yawn contagion study I started yawning like crazy!
  • Lincsbear

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    Apr 18, 2012 8:58 PM GMT
    A fascinating thread.

    I think many, if not all, of the characteristics we see in ourselves and regard as unique, are inheirited elaborations of earlier, more primitive behaviour in other animals, especially mammals and primates. The history of biology is one of the constant discovery of increased complexity and sophisticated behaviour in all sorts of animals. There always seems to be more to uncover. The development of long range study in natural environments has really changed our views of animals in the last few decades or so. One of the most interesting was on the evolution of tool use among chimps and how it opened up the prospect of chimpanzee 'archaeology'.

    The mourning of the dead in the higher animals appears strikingly self-conscious/reflective, and, I think, is deeply involved in the development of questions about the 'meaning of life', and ultimately, a religious sensibility.

    Many of these discoveries will pose increasing moral problems for us, especially with regard to issues like how we, with so much power at our disposal, treat their home, the planet, and them.
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    Apr 18, 2012 10:23 PM GMT
    GreenHopper said
    theantijock said

    .

    Hmm, he says "sans religion".that brings up another interesting animal phenomenon: ritualised mourning of the dead.. it has been observed in elephants and birds, that certain rituals are performed by friends and relatives of deceased animals, and that locations of death are remembered and constantly visited afterwards, usually with the same ritual taking place.... that in itself, to me, seems close to something of a religion...


    Which came first, the ritual or the religion?

    The other day a new friend and I hit an Egyptian exhibit at nearby arts museum. Impossible to miss is all the magical thinking of the era. Words are embued with magic as are materials and forms. I fully expected to turn the corner to find a 4,500 year old statue of Oprah.

    Magical thinking was portrayed by the anthropologists' interpretations of the artifacts as being so pervasive in their culture that I had the feeling that no religion could have been that influential without that line of thinking already being there. It did not seem superimposed but endemic.

    Perhaps religion is just the codification of existing ritual.

    Perhaps compassion isn't simply to where but from whence life evolves.
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    Apr 18, 2012 10:44 PM GMT
    Lincsbear said.

    I think many, if not all, of the characteristics we see in ourselves and regard as unique, are inheirited elaborations of earlier, more primitive behaviour in other animals, especially mammals and primates. The history of biology is one of the constant discovery of increased complexity and sophisticated behaviour in all sorts of animals. There always seems to be more to uncover. The development of long range study in natural environments has really changed our views of animals in the last few decades or so. One of the most interesting was on the evolution of tool use among chimps and how it opened up the prospect of chimpanzee 'archaeology'.

    The mourning of the dead in the higher animals appears strikingly self-conscious/reflective, and, I think, is deeply involved in the development of questions about the 'meaning of life', and ultimately, a religious sensibility.

    Many of these discoveries will pose increasing moral problems for us, especially with regard to issues like how we, with so much power at our disposal, treat their home, the planet, and them..





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    Apr 19, 2012 2:55 AM GMT
    KentuckyTuss saidWhen they were showing the yawn contagion study I started yawning like crazy!


    Monkey see, monkey do. icon_lol.gif