Californians cleared to vote on same-sex marriage ban

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    Jul 17, 2008 12:42 AM GMT
    Your Thoughts?

    Taken from CNN.COM

    [url]http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/16/same.sex.marriages/index.html
    [/url]

    SAN FRANCISCO, California (CNN) -- The California Supreme Court has cleared the way for Californians to vote in November on whether to ban same-sex marriages in the state.

    The court on Wednesday denied a petition to remove the initiative from the state's general election ballots. The unanimous decision was handed down without elaboration.

    Hundreds of marriage licenses have been issued to same-sex couples since mid-June, a month after the court overturned the state's laws against such unions.

    However, on June 2, opponents of same-sex marriage filed for a ballot initiative that would ban such marriages in the state's constitution. Such a ban would overturn the court's May ruling.

    Equality California, a Sacramento-based activist group, filed a petition against the initiative -- Proposition 8 -- arguing that it involves a constitutional revision that can't be adopted through a ballot vote.

    The group also contended that petitions circulated to qualify the proposition for the ballot contained material that misled readers about the measure's effects.

    Jennifer Kerns, a spokeswoman for the proposition, called Wednesday's decision "a huge victory."

    "We believe it deals a strong blow to our opponents and sends a strong message that they won't be able to keep the ballot initiative away from the people of California," she said.

    Calls Wednesday to Equality California were not immediately returned.

    If the proposition is approved, it would be the second time same-sex marriages have been voided in California.

    In February 2004, San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom -- who is considering a run for governor -- challenged the state's laws against same-sex marriage, ordering city officials to issue marriage licenses to gay and lesbian couples.

    Those unions were voided by the California Supreme Court, though the justices sidestepped the issue of whether banning same-sex marriage was unconstitutional, allowing legal cases to work their way through the lower courts.

    Several gay and lesbian couples -- along with the city of San Francisco and gay-rights groups -- sued, saying they were victims of unlawful discrimination.

    A lower court ruled San Francisco had acted unlawfully in issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples. However, the state Supreme Court's ruling in May struck down the state's ban on same-sex marriage as unconstitutional.

    That decision made California the nation's second state, after Massachusetts, to legalize same-sex marriage. Four other states allow civil unions.



  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 17, 2008 12:58 AM GMT
    if our rights get revoked there a second time, shit should blow up lol :p
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 17, 2008 1:17 AM GMT
    I agree with the decision but hope nothing comes of it. Newsom '10
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Jul 17, 2008 4:11 AM GMT
    Modification of the California Constitution requires a simple majority. Surprising, no?
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    Jul 17, 2008 4:18 AM GMT
    you know... if everything was done by a simple majority, blacks would still be under jim crows laws in the south.. and certainly there would be no interracial marriage
  • swimbikerun

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    Jul 17, 2008 4:31 AM GMT
    moveforward saidyou know... if everything was done by a simple majority, blacks would still be under jim crows laws in the south.. and certainly there would be no interracial marriage
    I'm not sure what your point is but I'm simply stating a fact.
    Personally, I don't think rewriting the California Constitution should be subject to the whims of simple majority vote.
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    Jul 17, 2008 5:04 AM GMT
    swimbikerun said
    moveforward saidyou know... if everything was done by a simple majority, blacks would still be under jim crows laws in the south.. and certainly there would be no interracial marriage
    I'm not sure what your point is but I'm simply stating a fact.
    Personally, I don't think rewriting the California Constitution should be subject to the whims of simple majority vote.


    wasn't directed at you man... just stating a fact.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jul 17, 2008 10:33 AM GMT
    Can you IMAGINE if they put the desegregation of schools in Little Rock Arkansas to a majority vote back in the sixties?
    Roe vs Wade back in the seventies?
    This is a wedge issue... dreamed up by a republican party to get their base out to vote for a man who republicans don't really want to vote for
    and with a party that has no issues to vote with
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Jul 17, 2008 3:11 PM GMT
    moveforward said
    swimbikerun said
    moveforward saidyou know... if everything was done by a simple majority, blacks would still be under jim crows laws in the south.. and certainly there would be no interracial marriage
    I'm not sure what your point is but I'm simply stating a fact.
    Personally, I don't think rewriting the California Constitution should be subject to the whims of simple majority vote.


    wasn't directed at you man... just stating a fact.
    Ah ok... Although you are speculating rather than stating a fact.
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    Jul 17, 2008 3:32 PM GMT
    I am looking forward to the day when the US starts living up to its' ideals. If this is passed and the marriage law is revoked then that day will be postponed.

    Hopefully there are enough intelligent people in California that realize the "institution" of marriage is not threatened when it is expanded to encompass people who are in love with a member of the same gender.
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    Jul 17, 2008 4:16 PM GMT
    Living in all of this is fascinating, exciting, challenging and disappointing all at the same time.

    The support has definitely increased. My brother and I ( both gay ) almost have our parents vote but still working on it. I'm using guilt and the last time we talked about it, it seemed to be working. If we get their votes I want to see the absentee votes to make sure they didn't lie. Either way. If they are going to deny me my right I want them to look me in the face and show me. Then I can decide if I'd like to continue allowing them to be a part of my life. icon_twisted.gif If they opt not to show me their vote's I will assume that was a vote against our rights. Like I said, I'm going to use guilt and play very dirty to get those votes.

    The down side has been watching those desperate to hold on to legal marriage as some unique special privilege granted to them by God.

    State wide some of the letters to editors I've read standing opposed to this right shock the hell out of me. Ignorance is alive and kicking in grand style. I actually read a letter that suggested our latest fires were a curse from God because Cali was currently allowing legalized gay marriage. The response to the letter was encouraging with the majority suggesting the author was beyond the shade of fucked up.

    Through it all my biggest problem with this vote is this so called "majority" rules mentality. It just doesn't equate to a fair vote. There are those who are going to cross that line of sexuality and vote in favor but I still don't think it's going to be enough. The scared religious fanatics vehemently opposed to all of this will cheer at it's defeat but the saddest part is that they will never take accountability for their own running joke called "The Sanctity of Marriage"

    I'm surprised there aren't posters of that idiot woman who married that fool on national TV on that show "I want to Marry a Millionaire" and in big bold letters have it say... The Sanctity of Marriage???
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    Jul 17, 2008 4:55 PM GMT
    Jsttennis77 you and your brother are both gay and your parents are still thinking about it? You must have interesting family get togethers. icon_eek.gif
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    Jul 17, 2008 5:11 PM GMT
    SurrealLife saidJsttennis77 you and your brother are both gay and your parents are still thinking about it? You must have interesting family get togethers. icon_eek.gif


    Surreal, interesting is an understatement. My parents are the poster children for ultra conservative christians. I'll give them credit. They've come a long way. I honestly think two events helped. My brother is older and came out before me so I knew what to expect and the blow didn't seem to be as dramatic. The second was when I lost my partner in a car accident. For the first time I think they got it and understood my sexuality wasn't based on satisfying a sexual appetite out of curiosity. Still the die hard conservative christian values seem to control and haunt them. Little by little as they look at life they are beginning to see that some stuff just doesn't matter and maybe just maybe this whole we vs them to preserve what they've been told is morality might be off just a bit.
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    Jul 17, 2008 5:33 PM GMT
    the hyprocricy of the entire anti-gay-rights movement makes me throw up a little bit in my mouth when i get to dwelling on it; they're so concerned with the sanctity of their own fucked up marraiges- with divorse rates soaring higher than any time in history, cheating rates rising into statistical strata that numb the mind, and tv shows daily exploiting the union of man and woman for cheap thrills and money- the fact of the matter is, they're doing a much better job of trouncing any sanctity marraige has in the filth of their own miserable existences.

    WE have to fight for the right to love another, WE have to struggle for legal acknowledgement of union with a mate, WE have to endure the hardships of descrimination and hate on a daily basis, such that we're largely numb to it any more; because of these things, our love is truer than theirs is, i'd argue. anything hard-earned is going to be nurtured with that much more love and investment. i honestly think, with statistics to support the statement, that we do a better job at the marraige game than the straights do. maybe we should challenge their constitutional right to be 'married.' maybe 'marraige between a man and a woman' should only be a status granted after 5 years of successful 'partnership,' since most are so quick to throw away those precious rights after a few years of hardship. why don't we turn this whole rediculous game back upon THEM and make everyone realize how rediculous it is in the process? if its their only foundation to stand upon in demanding hate to be written into our laws, maybe we should challenge that foundation; the 'rock' they stand on is that it's always only ever been a man and woman thing... lets never miss an opportunity to point out how 'well' that's seemed to work out for them. lol
  • vindog

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    Jul 17, 2008 5:35 PM GMT
    My parents are pretty conservative too. I think the love they have for me, coupled with how much their friends love my sister and I, overcomes the BS they've been fed throughout their lives.

    They'd rather be our friend then fight.
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    Jul 17, 2008 5:57 PM GMT
    Jeez Jsttennis77 you have been through a lot. I admire your resilience for such a young guy.

    Hopefully your parents will "see the light" and not jeopardize their relationship with their sons due to a very conservative view of marriage.
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    Jul 17, 2008 6:01 PM GMT
    The hardest thing is deprogramming just enough of that majority to get the votes. It's a daunting task when the media isn't so helpful. It's one of the hardest personal lobby's when talking to someone one on one about it because you can look right in their eyes and somewhere way back beyond all the muck that has been shoveled to them they instinctively know in the end we all deserve the legal right to marry. They know the stats about straight marriage and have no other choice but to admit for being so superior in the eyes of God straight people sure have made a mess out of that whole situation. That in itself pretty much should put to rest any concerns about gay men and women making it any more of a joke.

    The conflict many church's bring to the table in the name of God makes it a hard fought battle. I keep telling those that say they are against Gay marriage thats cool then don't marry someone who is gay but for those gay men and women that do want to do that please allow them that equal right. It's scary to think there was a time in this great nation when God and the bible was also used as a tool to segregate based on skin pigmentation. You'd think we would have learned something in all that but it appears stupid is as stupid does in this case.

    I think at the root of it all is letting go of the need to judge someone and homosexuals have been the easiest targets to use in trying desperately to suggest God favors a straight person. It's that whole desire of status. The need to have someone below you. If we allow gay marriage we potentially risk losing someone as a poster child to beat up, put down, and make us feel superior to. There won't be many people left to fill that bill and it's been such a time honored tradition and so acceptable it's a tough game to let go.
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    Jul 17, 2008 6:03 PM GMT
    I'm really appalled and disgusted by this. I don't understand the obsession this country seems to have with marginalizing a population of people based on superficial things - first it was Native Americans, then it was blacks, now it was gays.

    Why hasn't the Supreme Court stepped into this as they did in regards to interracial marriage and desegregation of schools in the '60's?

    I wonder if southern slave states would have voted to abolish slavery if that too were up to "popular vote" icon_rolleyes.gif

    The blatant hypocracy and double standard in our country it utterly astounding, as is the mantra, "all men are created equal". More like, "all men are created equal as long as they subscribe to what the majority of people find acceptable".

    What a joke.
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    Jul 17, 2008 6:06 PM GMT
    one other thought on their sanctimonious stance on the issue: they think god's punishing the country with natural disasters because of the gays?? maybe its because they're misinterpreting his messages to them with hate instead of love, to turn their own primitive understanding of natural phenomina back upon them. or it could be this: ask one of these right wing basket cases if they've ever lied. how often in a week do they tell little white lies? say they'll do something but never get around to it? gossip? because 'bearing false witness' made it onto the list of the 'big ten,' and being gay didn't even get honorable mention- just a blurb on page several-hundred-and-something back in the old testament. one should never criticize the splinter in another's eye- they may have a plank in their own. they think they're so godly and holy, but they're just as shitty as the rest of the humans on this planet (..at best- but more likely, they're much worse)
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    Jul 17, 2008 6:21 PM GMT
    "Marriage is a Sacred Covenant Between a Drunk Man and a Hooker in Vegas."

    OK so what are they "protecting" again? ;-)
  • swimbikerun

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    Jul 17, 2008 6:21 PM GMT
    collegestud86 saidI'm really appalled and disgusted by this. I don't understand the obsession this country seems to have with marginalizing a population of people based on superficial things - first it was Native Americans, then it was blacks, now it was gays.

    Why hasn't the Supreme Court stepped into this as they did in regards to interracial marriage and desegregation of schools in the '60's?

    I wonder if southern slave states would have voted to abolish slavery if that too were up to "popular vote" icon_rolleyes.gif

    The blatant hypocracy and double standard in our country it utterly astounding, as is the mantra, "all men are created equal". More like, "all men are created equal as long as they subscribe to what the majority of people find acceptable".

    What a joke.


    This is more specifically about California government which is closer to a democracy rather than a republic. The benchmark for getting something on the general statewide ballot is low and the modification of the California constitution requires a simple majority vote.
    This is an inherent weakness of democracies: mob rule.
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    Jul 17, 2008 6:24 PM GMT
    When was the last time a constitution was amended to restrict the rights of a demographic group?

    Perverse, indeed. And all to get the fundies out to the polls.
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    Jul 17, 2008 6:29 PM GMT
    we only have ourselves to blame- we are a larger demographic than the fundies, being (arguably) one in 30 or so, but we just don't get as loud and riled up as they do. we should be a voting demographic to be truly afraid of- but we're only good as a demographic to be marketed to for sales. i wish gays got as up in arms as our oppressors do. sure we get incensed and indignant, but those politicians should be cowering before us, not swiping us aside as collateral damage in the polls. what would happen if every gay man in the country stiked until we got what we wanted? i suspect the fundies would shut up when culture and society as they know it shuts down to a grinding halt and all that's beautiful is made to fade.

    lets face it- we're the life's blood of any culture- cincinnati doesn't have any gay presence to speak of and look at what a failure it's turned out to be lol.
  • joggerva

    Posts: 731

    Jul 17, 2008 6:32 PM GMT
    Oh great, so who do I write the check to this time?
    Or better yet, who wants to host an east coast activist? I love me some door-to-door canvassing! icon_smile.gif
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    Jul 17, 2008 6:33 PM GMT
    SurrealLife saidJeez Jsttennis77 you have been through a lot. I admire your resilience for such a young guy.

    Hopefully your parents will "see the light" and not jeopardize their relationship with their sons due to a very conservative view of marriage.





    Surreal, Time offers growth and strength in trying to accept a nightmare like that. Coming full circle and realizing that death will never have absolute power in taking your fondest memories of that person is a powerful realization. It takes time.


    I think they get it. I've made it clear that I can live with some stranger being ignorant and think they have a right to deny me what should be my legal right already. But it would be impossible to embrace my own parents not wanting that right for me given that all they've ever wanted for both me and my brother was to experience life to the fullest. That would include the joy of falling in love with someone and the right to come together in marriage LEGALLY as one.