Higher Taxes?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 18, 2012 3:42 AM GMT
    Just a quick survey to gauge how people (the majority of whom probably don't have children in public schools) feel about this issue: Would you be willing to pay higher property taxes to keep PE and music in elementary schools?
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    Apr 18, 2012 3:49 AM GMT
    Why? If PE and music classes are being cut, then there's a budgeting problem. No need to raise taxes. Just hire someone that isn't cooking the books.
  • commoncoll

    Posts: 1222

    Apr 18, 2012 5:05 AM GMT
    I would be willing to pay higher taxes, it would depend on how much higher, to the school district provided they could prove the money was being allocated and used fairly. In fact, the school district increased their taxes a little less than 2% this year in a town hall meeting. Most people were OK with it because it passed through a public initiative.

    I would hazard to say that people don't like to put money where their mouth is. "Somebody else (1%) can do it."
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    Apr 18, 2012 5:07 AM GMT
    xrichx saidWhy? If PE and music classes are being cut, then there's a budgeting problem. No need to raise taxes. Just hire someone that isn't cooking the books.


    ...... Right...... icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Apr 18, 2012 5:19 AM GMT
    I'd need more info to make that decision.

    Currently 44% of my property taxes go to schools. That's a pretty big chunk. The rest is divided between the county (24%), the town (26%), with smaller portions going to the water management district, the port, the children's board, transit & debt payments for environmental land.

    I recognize that everyone gets less money now that appraisals have come down, but also appraisals had bubbled for a while there and so I don't understand, if everything ran well enough before the bubble, where'd all that money go and why is it needed now if we did well enough before having it?
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    Apr 18, 2012 12:21 PM GMT
    True story from my ex:

    His neighborhood was filled with older folks who constantly turned down tax increases for their local schools. I guess they figured their kids were already educated and didn't want to pay for a service that wouldn't serve them. Plus, they were on fixed incomes and every penny counted.

    My ex told me his textbooks were five to ten years old, some missing covers with broken bindings, and there weren't enough to go around. The parents were responsible for all student supplies. PTA had socials to get teachers classroom suppiles like chalk, erasers, crayons, construction paper. Their school building was more like a "haunted house" than a place to get educated. They only had enough money to fix, patch and paint over the decay rather than overhaul the plumbing and electrical. It blows my mind.

    I guess I was spoiled. My parents paid a pretty high tax rate in Ann Arbor and I never experienced anything like that.

    I would pay more taxes to keep as many programs going in education. Sports keep the body healthy, and the arts expand imagination and possibilities. I have to think beyond myself and think about the future of our country.
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    Apr 18, 2012 12:23 PM GMT
    An area in which I'm useless, financial politics.
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    Apr 18, 2012 12:30 PM GMT
    One day these children will become adults and will have influence in their community and possibly the wrld. Why not give them the resources I had and better.
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    Apr 18, 2012 12:54 PM GMT
    I wouldn't mind....
    I went to one of the best public schools in Texas . My elementary school was rank 2nd best elementary in the country. my high school took and still is taking first place in many academics/sports. I know the only reason it's like this is because of the high taxes. I think we all deserve a great "free" education.
    Matter of fact I started a charity that provides scholarship for graduating students. I tell you where the majority of my taxes go, to education.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 18, 2012 1:00 PM GMT
    Like most other taxes I understand the need and why we should be paying more but that doesn't mean I look forward to doing so.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 18, 2012 1:05 PM GMT
    I believe taxation is nothing but theft and public education - a form of slavery. Both should be abolished, the sooner the better. Murray N. Rothbard explained it all very well in his excellent book "Education: Free and Compulsory" http://mises.org/document/2689

    For the record: I have finished one of the finest and most elite public schools in my country, haven't paid a penny in taxes for almost 2 years now and intend to keep it that way for the rest of my life. icon_wink.gif
  • nomadfornow

    Posts: 1069

    Apr 18, 2012 2:58 PM GMT
    Unfortunately, many people think that because they don't have children in public schools, they shouldn't be burdened with something that "doesn't affect" them. Of course, it does affect them, because the quality of schools, and the quality of the children those schools produce, in turn affects the quality of the communities in which they live. There are other things I could bring up regarding taxation in general, but the short answer to your question is yes, I would.
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    Apr 18, 2012 3:09 PM GMT
    Nope no more money deserves to be forwarded to Education unless they can fix some of the big issues we already have right now. Schools are funded quite well. The biggest issue is when it comes to salaries for every 1 teacher you have, you have 1 non teacher in the district. Get rid of some of the administrative positions. We don't need 8 Assistant Principals. Music and P.E are very important but both are very affordable to keep if the schools would just reallocate funds.
  • Import

    Posts: 7193

    Apr 18, 2012 3:33 PM GMT
    I think PE and music are nominally important.

    I'd rather they focus more on math, science, and writing skills, tbh.

    If they wanna take up music, there is always private lessons, etc. and as for PE...who really takes that class seriously? I remember all my PE classes were a joke?

    we'd mostly stand around and talk to eachother or sit in circles out on the lawn throwing things at eachother. Then , once i got into high school, it was more of the same.
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    Apr 18, 2012 3:36 PM GMT
    xrichx saidWhy? If PE and music classes are being cut, then there's a budgeting problem. No need to raise taxes. Just hire someone that isn't cooking the books.
    Depends on the area. Some places are like that, but others really are grossly underfunded.
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    Apr 18, 2012 3:37 PM GMT
    Coach_Mike saidJust a quick survey to gauge how people (the majority of whom probably don't have children in public schools) feel about this issue: Would you be willing to pay higher property taxes to keep PE and music in elementary schools?


    Yes
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 18, 2012 3:49 PM GMT
    Our county does need a new high school. It's going to cost a lot. Unfortunately, the property tax bill is already loaded up with a dozen miscellaneous levies and bonds, and nobody can really afford any more. Most of the money to build the old schools came from property taxes levied on large industrial concerns, most of which are now gone. The new industries were lured here by promises of 20-year exemptions from property tax.

    Oh joy, see the big press release about the five PC's donated to the school by google! No mention of the $23 million that they should have paid in property tax.

    No, I don't think I should pay any more.
  • metta

    Posts: 39144

    Apr 18, 2012 4:01 PM GMT
    No. I pay enough in property taxes. They can tax me more in other ways. I just don't want to pay more with my property taxes. CA prop 13 limits maximum annual increases to 2% per year. If you knew how much I paid each year, I think you would understand why I feel this way. I have to come up with it every year on my own.
  • austex85

    Posts: 572

    Apr 18, 2012 4:03 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said a look at the compensation structure of the teachers and comparing it with the current private sector practices gives some very good ideas of how to reign in costs.


    how does this support your point?
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19137

    Apr 18, 2012 4:21 PM GMT
    I don't agree with higher taxes of ANY kind until the Government gets a handle on the spending and all the waste is curtailed. The amount of money that our government wastes is abysmal. Until that gets under control, I don't want them getting another dime more than they are getting already
  • Import

    Posts: 7193

    Apr 18, 2012 4:22 PM GMT
    Well the US has much lower taxes than those in Europe and Canada.
    So i'd much rather pay taxes here in the US than a nanny-state in Europe.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 18, 2012 4:49 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidI don't agree with higher taxes of ANY kind until the Government gets a handle on the spending and all the waste is curtailed. The amount of money that our government wastes is abysmal. Until that gets under control, I don't want them getting another dime more than they are getting already


    Then please vote for ANYONE other than a Teapublican.
  • Import

    Posts: 7193

    Apr 18, 2012 4:51 PM GMT
    Do people even know what the "tea" in "teaparty" means?

    Taxed
    Enough
    Already


  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19137

    Apr 18, 2012 4:54 PM GMT
    LoveYourHairHopeYouWin said
    CuriousJockAZ saidI don't agree with higher taxes of ANY kind until the Government gets a handle on the spending and all the waste is curtailed. The amount of money that our government wastes is abysmal. Until that gets under control, I don't want them getting another dime more than they are getting already


    Then please vote for ANYONE other than a Teapublican.




    and I would do that because....?
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    Apr 18, 2012 5:01 PM GMT
    austex85 said
    southbeach1500 said a look at the compensation structure of the teachers and comparing it with the current private sector practices gives some very good ideas of how to reign in costs.


    how does this support your point?


    It speaks to the point that resources are not being allocated equitably.

    Even if a teacher with a bachelor's starts now at $36k (it was 33.2 US avg in 2005 according to BLS), that money is just for 10 months a year. Plus there's about another month of holidays. In the private sector, someone would have to come out of school with a bachelor's making $43.2k to match that at 12 months and they're only getting a week or maybe two of vacation to start.

    The average starting pay for anyone with a liberal arts bachelors is about $36,000 for 12 months worth of work, 17% less than teachers when matched up by the time put in for that money.

    A teaching cousin of mine tells me she winds up after 30 years with a pension of $36k/year. The average SS check for a private individual is about $1100/month. For the private individual to make up for that $22,800/year shortfall, they'd have to save 25 x's that or $570,000 for a safe withdrawal rate of 4% to give them what teachers get.

    Compounding at 5%, say in some municipal bonds to assure the money will be there, just like teachers are assured by our taxes, that private individual starting at $36,000 would have to save about $8,000/year.

    So now the private individual has 36,000 minus taxes, minus $8k/year savings for retirement to live on 12 months a year, while the teacher has $36,000 which they got during just 10 months, freeing them up for part time work if they want for the other 2 months, and they don't get SS taxes withheld.

    On top of which, the private individual also gets to pay his property taxes which pays for the inequitable unfairness which is advantaged to the public employee.

    * http://www.campusgrotto.com/average-starting-salary-by-degree-for-2009.html