Washington State Catholic Hierarchy and Gay Marriage

  • Cutlass

    Posts: 451

    Apr 21, 2012 7:35 AM GMT
    When our Washington state legislature voted in favor of same sex marriage, at the testimony hearings the archbishop of Seattle J. Peter Sartrain said the church opposed the bill because marriage is for procreation, and same sex couples can't procreate; therefore he said the church stood in opposition to the bill.
    When the bill passed, we were all wondering, of course, if the church (or mormons or evangelicals/fundamentalists) would try to stop this law from coming into effect. Sure enough, Sartrain, the Seattle archbishop, told his churches to support Referendum 74, a bill which would nullify the current law allowing gay marriages, and to place petitions in the churches for signatures in support of Referendum 74. (Ref. 74 needs over 120,000 signatures to be placed on the ballot.)
    Well, miracle of miracles, at least three churches in Seattle didn't heed the archbishop's command, and I heard at least a half dozen other ones outside the area also are not cooperating. The Knights of Columbus has tried to facilitate the movement by bringing in petitions to the churches.
    Of course this division in the r.c. church has caused a great deal of controversy, and the catholic faithful have denounced the critics and others who have found the church wanting. One parishioner said, Why do they stay in the church if they can't abide by the church's teachings?" Indeed. The church is antiquated, antediluvian, out of touch, and decadent that those who disagree with its teachings should leave; that should send a message to the hierarchy that they can understand.
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    Apr 21, 2012 8:40 AM GMT
    +1 thread
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    Apr 21, 2012 12:49 PM GMT
    I loved the news that some Seattle priests and chuches were finding ways to rejects the Bishop's request. Catholics are obliged to follow their consciences regardless of what the bishop's or even the Pope says. Yes, the are required to try to conform and inform their conscienses to be in accord with Church teachings, but if there is still a conflict, one must follow one's conscience. John Paul II and Benedict have filled the hierarchy with prelates who retain a decidedly pre-Vatican II outlook.
    Now the hierarchy is attacking the nuns as too liberal and feminist. In this fight, I strongly suspect most Catholics are going to side with the nuns, who are following Christ's teachings far more closely than the Bishops.
    It seems like the hierarchy and the Congress are in a close race to be the more contemptible.
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    Apr 21, 2012 1:35 PM GMT
    I just wonder how the Church can keep its tax-exempt status if they are commanding their members how to vote on a political issue, and even organizing petition drives within the churches themselves.

    Those of my generation remember how John F. Kennedy's Presidential campaign was questioned about his loyalty to the Pope. Would the Pope be able to dictate to a Catholic President, tell him how to decide on policy issues?

    Kennedy said as President he would follow US law, not Church Canon and teachings, in accordance with the principle of separation of church and state. That's the same statement that Rick Santorum recently said makes him want to vomit.

    A dangerous time for the US when we have leaders who pretend separation of church and state doesn't exist, and want to tear it down. Who ignore the example of religious strife in Europe that our Founders had seen at a closer distance in time.

    Misguided Christians who strangely forget even the teaching of Christ, to "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." And in a country of many people and many beliefs, the civil government belongs to everyone, not only to the followers of one particular God.
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    Apr 21, 2012 2:25 PM GMT
    Wasnt it that pontificating nazi at the talibanical vatican headquarters the one who just recently 'cracked down on the American nuns' because they didnt want to push his barbaric anti-gay hatred?

    You know, this asshole?

    I'm sure it was this asshole!
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    Apr 21, 2012 3:09 PM GMT
    By way of healthy contrast:

    Bishop Rickle, Episcopal Bishop of Olympia (Western Washington) "We say [gay people] cannot live up to our values because they cannot be married or even blessed in their union. While many of them have begged for this, it is still not possible. What they ask of us, the church and the government, is to put boundaries around their relationship, to hold them in the same regard and with the same respect, which would also mean that we expect the same from them."

    "Christianity has held, when considering relationships of all sorts -- but especially in relation to two people in marriage -- fidelity to be our value. They) are not asking for special treatment. They are asking for equal treatment. They are asking to be accountable as a couple, in community. To me, this is a conservative proposal. I am for it, and I hope we will finally make way for this to happen, not only in our society, but in our church."

    Bishop Waggoner, of the Diocese of Spokane, “Welcome[d] the decision and am grateful that it recognizes the reality of relationships already being lived out faithfully and lovingly. The validation of legal status and related rights, including benefits, is overdue.”