What's with the Trangender Hate.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 23, 2012 3:40 AM GMT
    I see alot of hateful comments and discrimination when it comes to that subject and it seems very cruel. Like it or not they are apart of our community.

    LGBT...

    So why are people (SOME) so rude about them. It goes back to my topic about how we want people to understand and accept us but we cannot do the same by others.

    How can we judge people when we never walked in their shoes,
    but what is the big deal with Transgendered people anyway,

    Aren't they just basic people aswell. Except born in the wrong body?
    I think that is the way they put it.
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    Apr 23, 2012 3:48 AM GMT

    "Aren't they just basic people as well. Except born in the wrong body?"

    I think so.

    -Doug
  • TheBizMan

    Posts: 4091

    Apr 23, 2012 3:59 AM GMT
    You, my friend, should have your own talk show.
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    Apr 23, 2012 4:14 AM GMT
    You were 2 years old when I came out of the closet and entered the GLBT community and in all those years, transgendered have always been the "Goddesses" of the community.

    While their has been negatives towards them, it is no more so than the rest of the community. Dykes, lipstick lesbians, the leather community, the effiminate gays, the radical fairies and all the rest have all had negative things said about them from people in our own community.

    Have you ever heard about lesbians being bad tippers or have you heard what a lesbian drives on a second day, a u-haul.

    The effiminate boys get beat up alot these days since the term "masculine" has become a trait most guys seem to be looking for, this would be specifically targeting them for exclusion. Internal segregation at its best.

    I could keep going but I dont think I need to.

    So while you seem to think transgendered have some unfair target on them, I am going to say you are wrong. The trannies in Jacksonville have legions of loyal fans both in the gay and straight community.

    but good luck with whatever you are trying to do and sorry if you live in a place where what you describe is more prevalent but it is not like that everywhere.

    Thank you and good night
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    Apr 23, 2012 4:54 AM GMT
    I dunno, I guess it's just something I can't grasp yet... I don't come down on them or anything, it's just that it still feels weird to me (Angel from RENT helped a bit). But I guess maybe because sometimes on TV it's shown that cross dressing and transgenders are more of a joke than anything else.
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    Apr 25, 2012 11:44 PM GMT
    dudewithabeard saidYou were 2 years old when I came out of the closet and entered the GLBT community and in all those years, transgendered have always been the "Goddesses" of the community.

    While their has been negatives towards them, it is no more so than the rest of the community. Dykes, lipstick lesbians, the leather community, the effiminate gays, the radical fairies and all the rest have all had negative things said about them from people in our own community.

    Have you ever heard about lesbians being bad tippers or have you heard what a lesbian drives on a second day, a u-haul.

    The effiminate boys get beat up alot these days since the term "masculine" has become a trait most guys seem to be looking for, this would be specifically targeting them for exclusion. Internal segregation at its best.

    I could keep going but I dont think I need to.

    So while you seem to think transgendered have some unfair target on them, I am going to say you are wrong. The trannies in Jacksonville have legions of loyal fans both in the gay and straight community.

    but good luck with whatever you are trying to do and sorry if you live in a place where what you describe is more prevalent but it is not like that everywhere.

    Thank you and good night


    Thank you for your reply but at the same time

    "sorry if you live in a place where what you describe is more prevalent but it is not like that everywhere."

    Is no different than saying Jacksonville has a league of loyal fans. That just may be one of the specific places, but worldwide and as a whole

    Transgendered get more heat, and humiliaton out of the gay community from not only the straight(s) but the gays aswell.

    You can look on this site and see something negative said almost everyday.
    Also it is the whole numbers thing aswell.

    More people are LGB than T so therefore people understand them more or get "use" to it more than the idea of Trangendered..

    and another thing that kind of supports it but more on a person to person level. If you are Transgendered than technically you are straight, but yet because many do not make that correlation with it, they fit it into the group of LGBT which bascially includes some form of homosexuality while, if you are basically born in the wrong body then you truly are a man or woman , so the term being couped up with us is a mistake in itself..which is how I feel anyway.

    but moving on,

    There also is the chain theory

    Straight(s) have a hard time understanding gays
    Gays have a hard understanding of bi's
    Straight and Gays andBi(s) have an hard time understanding Trans

    Transgendered are at the bottom of the pole, so it is almost needless to say that they would recieve the most criticism since not only arey they less in numbers , but because they are so less people cannot relate or even get use to them as much as we are. How many shows and stuff do you even see talk about the topic aside from on a political standpoint or scientific standpoint.

    Sexuality is innate and it has been proven that more often than not people experiment with the same sex and so even though discrimintation and homophobia still exist, many understand the reasoning and relations behind sexuality.

    however transgender many do not because many do not go through that, at all. It is alot more difficult and technical to understand.

    Even if you think it is not, take a poll. and Ask members of the straight community, because at the end of the day a transgender is straight, in the mind, but ask if they would feel comfortable dating a transgender person. Most likely your answers will for the most part be NO.

    The and Lesbians if they would do the whole M2F transgender and see.

    Then ask members of the Gay community if they would date a F2M transgender and you will still find alot of the answers is no.

    So this topic is to understand why that is, and also to wonder about discrimination and rude comments to people who otherwise do not deserve it.

    I personally think the main diff between them and us is that for many of us "Gayness" cannot be seen, unless you are stereotyped but Transgendered can be especially if you have not went through surgery and stuff.

    Also people are not even aware of the difference between everything
    transgender
    cross dresser
    drag queen
    androgyny
    Bigender
    Transvestite
    genderqueer

    Alot of people think these are the same things and yet they are not. Hell I may have used some incorrectly myself in this little speech.

    More education is the key, and i myself am not excluded from it. I probably am wrong about alot of stuff I have said but that is just my understanding. If i am wrong please correct me.

    But one last thing before I go

    "You were 2 years old when I came out of the closet and entered the GLBT community and in all those years, transgendered have always been the "Goddesses" of the community. "

    What community, it would have had to be yours, but like I said earlier, in the same way you say me using my hometown as a representation is not fair, neither is yours, because even in 2012 transgender where I am from, it is not nice here, damn near at all, and I am a whole new generation than you are. So I say that is invalid.

    This is Just my take on it, and I could be wrong, this is where I am coming from. If you can educate me then please do so, I am never to proud to listen and be corrected.


    Thank you and good day,
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 25, 2012 11:57 PM GMT
    No me gusta package deals.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 26, 2012 1:13 AM GMT
    There is no reason (apart from political coalition building) for tacking the T onto GLB. Gender dysmorphia is not the same as sexual orientation and lumping them together implies that anything vaguely sexual and non-standard belongs to the same group of things.
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    Apr 26, 2012 1:19 AM GMT
    Larkin saidThere is no reason (apart from political coalition building) for tacking the T onto GLB. Gender dysmorphia is not the same as sexual orientation and lumping them together implies that anything vaguely sexual and non-standard belongs to the same group of things.


    I actually agree with this, even though I typed so much it may not have stated it exactly, but I did try to include that aswell in my reasoning.
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    Apr 26, 2012 1:21 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said "If you want to be gay [a drag queen], be gay [a drag queen]....just shut up about it every now and then...we're tired of hearing about it." icon_rolleyes.gif


    THAT is one of the biggest problems. I have seen people post this same trash on their Facebook. The reason why they're hearing about it is because things haven't changed. Those people need to stop being whiny cunts and accept that their minor inconvenience pales in comparison to the real problems people face as a result of gay vilification.
  • trakstar90

    Posts: 119

    Apr 26, 2012 1:23 AM GMT
    yourname2000 saidI think Jamie has committed to writing the Gay Bible for his thesis and wants RJ to do his homework for him. icon_razz.gif


    Ha
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    Apr 26, 2012 1:31 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    cold said
    yourname2000 said "If you want to be gay [a drag queen], be gay [a drag queen]....just shut up about it every now and then...we're tired of hearing about it." icon_rolleyes.gif


    THAT is one of the biggest problems. I have seen people post this same trash on their Facebook. The reason why they're hearing about it is because things haven't changed. Those people need to stop being whiny cunts and accept that their minor inconvenience pales in comparison to the real problems people face as a result of gay vilification.

    I disagree (obviously). If you have blond hair and all your friends have brown hair and you keep talking about your blond hair...at some point, it's just self-indulgent attention-whoring. "We know....we don't have a problem with it....shut up already."

    That's not a very good analogy. It would be more like if we we lived in the 60s and I complained about how I wasn't legally capable of marrying my black girlfriend.
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    Apr 26, 2012 1:33 AM GMT


    Some transgenders are gay. They are same sex oriented. Once changed they are attracted to whatever sex they are now.

    They are also a terribly small group and could use a little support.

    There are some women to men trans on RJ that we're friends with. They rarely, rarely, post.
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    Apr 26, 2012 1:35 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    I guess maybe that's the difference....we have equality up here. It's done. The sky didn't fall in. We're not going back.

    And for the record, I still think whining is attention-whoring. And there is a ton of whining on this site, lol.


    Well, in that case, your friends sound like attention whores.
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    Apr 26, 2012 1:39 AM GMT
    Larkin saidThere is no reason (apart from political coalition building) for tacking the T onto GLB. Gender dysmorphia is not the same as sexual orientation and lumping them together implies that anything vaguely sexual and non-standard belongs to the same group of things.


    I have too agree with you. In many ways it's why I struggle with the concept of this GLBT thing, lumping many diffrent goups into one; when we are not.

    It's why I've challenged this thought of lumping us all together under the one banner, with us Bona Fide Homosexuals, to give us real gays our own identity back, instead of it being made something generic.

    I myself have no personal contempt for transgender, I just don't necessarily see them as gay, also transgender in many countries is classed as a mental health issue, and thats why they get subsidy's in the medical treatment they need for life.
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    Apr 26, 2012 1:48 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    cold said
    yourname2000 said
    I guess maybe that's the difference....we have equality up here. It's done. The sky didn't fall in. We're not going back.

    And for the record, I still think whining is attention-whoring. And there is a ton of whining on this site, lol.


    Well, in that case, your friends sound like attention whores.

    Because they want to talk about something one of them wants to talk about? ---instead of a bunch of gay issues that they can't relate to? We definitely define attention-whoring differently.

    Just trying to show you that you are yet to actually engage with the issue.
    Your responses have basically been:
    - a manipulative analogy
    - 'so what? that's not how it works in my country'
    - 'talking about gay rights = whining = attention whoring'
    - 'whining from straight people =|= attention whoring'

    I'm talking about a real problem where people choose to silence important opinion because it has no impact on their life. You've managed to take that idea and paint it into a scenario where the gay person is an annoying narcissist and the straight people are the victims.

    I agree, in your picture the gay person does look annoying. But you're only choosing to see one piece of the puzzle.
  • brazilian_tt

    Posts: 41

    Apr 26, 2012 1:52 AM GMT
    Larkin saidThere is no reason (apart from political coalition building) for tacking the T onto GLB. Gender dysmorphia is not the same as sexual orientation and lumping them together implies that anything vaguely sexual and non-standard belongs to the same group of things.


    I feel ambivalent about this.

    Yes, tackling the T in GLB reinforces the idea that these things are all equivalent, which is very annoying. When I came out to my parents and tried to explain to them that sexual orientation and gender identity are different things, they had this puzzled look on their face. Eventually I just made it simple to them and said "I'm just gay, I'm not gonna start dressing up as a woman".

    However, I feel bad about excluding trans people out. They have very little representation. While gays have gained a lot of acceptation, trans people are still hated and suffer a lot of violence. It may be to our benefit to exclude them from our "community" when it comes to fighting for rights, but it would just make them more ostracized and discriminated against.
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    Apr 26, 2012 2:03 AM GMT
    brazilian_tt said
    Larkin saidThere is no reason (apart from political coalition building) for tacking the T onto GLB. Gender dysmorphia is not the same as sexual orientation and lumping them together implies that anything vaguely sexual and non-standard belongs to the same group of things.


    I feel ambivalent about this.

    Yes, tackling the T in GLB reinforces the idea that these things are all equivalent, which is very annoying. When I came out to my parents and tried to explain to them that sexual orientation and gender identity are different things, they had this puzzled look on their face. Eventually I just made it simple to them and said "I'm just gay, I'm not gonna start dressing up as a woman".

    However, I feel bad about excluding trans people out. They have very little representation. While gays have gained a lot of acceptation, trans people are still hated and suffer a lot of violence. It may be to our benefit to exclude them from our "community" when it comes to finding for rights, but it would just make them more ostracized and discriminated against.


    I think I agree more with you Brazilian, As much as these may all be different groups, in most gender traditions, the alternate genders DO get lumped together and the differences not really seen by people who are "gender-standard".. this is so in the traditions of the Pacific, of South-East Asia, of the Roman, chinese, Indian and Persian empires, where in the arts they are depicted as feminine males and even cross-dressing etc..... In all of these, gays were accepted, but the expectation was for them to also take on roles of the opposite gender and to dress like them

    So like in our modern culture, gay, bisexual, trans, we get lumped together. . I've had to deal with the attacks from gays for the longest time over the fact that I am bisexual, to the point where I've given up and when people ask me I just say "I'm gay" to spare me the trouble of having to "defend" my stance from the gays who see it as a betrayal and from the straights, who say its the same thing as gay and Im just acting greedy.

    And finally, more exclusion is not good for the strength of our position in society.... there is strength in numbers... the analogy of the group of matches which is much harder to snap than a single match.... And we need all the strength we can get in this world. no offense... and by dissociating from other discriminated groups, we make our position yet weaker.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 26, 2012 3:49 AM GMT
    United we stand, divided we fall.

    @all - Do you like being hated on? No? Then don't hate! Cut that shit out. It's the 21st century already.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 26, 2012 4:06 AM GMT
    On a somewhat different topic...Is it ok if I just want to be plain old "homosexual"? It just feels like LGBTQKPE has become a clowncar for whatever sexually related/identity related categories people want to clump together. I don't feel like an 18 year old girl trapped in a man's body.

    That being said, people making hateful comments about anyone should stfu.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 26, 2012 4:13 AM GMT
    Because from an anatomical and physiological point of view they still are their original gender, the only difference is that they have mutilated genitals and implants. Until doctors can make the person into their desired gender I won't be happy with the scam called "sex" change operations. You may look like it, you may act like it, but your body still is it's original gender, and will revert if given the chance.
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    Apr 26, 2012 4:14 AM GMT
    TrueBlueAussie said
    Larkin saidThere is no reason (apart from political coalition building) for tacking the T onto GLB. Gender dysmorphia is not the same as sexual orientation and lumping them together implies that anything vaguely sexual and non-standard belongs to the same group of things.


    I have too agree with you. In many ways it's why I struggle with the concept of this GLBT thing, lumping many diffrent goups into one; when we are not.

    It's why I've challenged this thought of lumping us all together under the one banner, with us Bona Fide Homosexuals, to give us real gays our own identity back, instead of it being made something generic.

    I myself have no personal contempt for transgender, I just don't necessarily see them as gay, also transgender in many countries is classed as a mental health issue, and thats why they get subsidy's in the medical treatment they need for life.


    +1
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Apr 26, 2012 4:22 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    In regard to anyone making their case (for "gay marriage"), you've only got a finite time to hold people's attention. After that, it doesn't matter how good the point is you wanted to make, you just didn't make it. So if gay people actually (in 2012) think they're not getting their message across, they either need to modify the message or the person they've chosen to deliver it. Past that, it's just badgering/whining. And that was the point I was trying to make....more words don't make a better argument. And you only get so many times at bat before you need to step off the plate and let someone else take a swing. To just stand there, 'cos you've got a point to make (and nobody cares), is attention-whoring. (IMHO)



    Hmmmm....I wonder if that's the attitude straight people take with the gays always harping about "gay marriage". I changed your statement and substituted "gay marriage". Gays are just a bunch of badgering whiners when it comes to trying to make marriage legal.?..or is that different in your eyes?
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    Apr 26, 2012 4:23 AM GMT
    meninlove said

    Some transgenders are gay. They are same sex oriented. Once changed they are attracted to whatever sex they are now.

    They are also a terribly small group and could use a little support.

    There are some women to men trans on RJ that we're friends with. They rarely, rarely, post.


    I am deeply saddened by the lack of support and understanding which this segment of our community receives. In some cultures, the transgendered are not only accepted, but revered.

    Haven't we yet learned that until all are free none of us are free?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 26, 2012 4:23 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    yourname2000 said
    In regard to anyone making their case (for "gay marriage"), you've only got a finite time to hold people's attention. After that, it doesn't matter how good the point is you wanted to make, you just didn't make it. So if gay people actually (in 2012) think they're not getting their message across, they either need to modify the message or the person they've chosen to deliver it. Past that, it's just badgering/whining. And that was the point I was trying to make....more words don't make a better argument. And you only get so many times at bat before you need to step off the plate and let someone else take a swing. To just stand there, 'cos you've got a point to make (and nobody cares), is attention-whoring. (IMHO)



    Hmmmm....I wonder if that's the attitude straight people take with the gays always harping about "gay marriage". I changed your statement and substituted "gay marriage". Gays are just a bunch of badgering whiners when it comes to trying to make marriage legal.?..or is that different in your eyes?


    +1
    It's always different when it comes to us. I posted a topic about this aswell.

    we want to be treated fairly and accepted and such, yet we never feel to treat others the same.

    hmm...
    but then we want to bitch about it.

    I also see a comment above about sex change operations and how transgender may act and talk but it is a scam..I just..i cant even...

    icon_eek.gif