Lesbian Army Captain Berated at Military Ball

  • metta

    Posts: 39118

    Apr 23, 2012 8:36 PM GMT
    Lesbian Army Captain Berated at Military Ball


    http://www.advocate.com/Politics/Military/Lesbian_Army_Captain_Berated_at_Military_Ball/
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    Apr 23, 2012 8:41 PM GMT
    I applaud and fully support her actions!
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    Apr 23, 2012 8:49 PM GMT
    TropicalMark saidI applaud and fully support her actions!

    Agree. I'm not sure what kind of "ball" this was, but there is a kind of formal military event for Officers called a "dining in". No civilians may be present. The rules are very strict, and there is a "President of the Mess" and various other official positions. One of which is "Mr. Vice," the most junior Officer present, who assigns penalties for breaches of the rules.

    It's also a tradition, though increasingly frowned upon, of getting totally drunk. And you can insult other Officers, even superiors. Though it's understood the insults are meant to be funny, not mean, or you may see your career evaporate.

    So I wonder what exactly this ball was. But I suspect the commander is having morning-after remorse, the alcohol effects abated. Though frankly, I hope he gets fried.

    If I had ever physically struck one of my Officers, or an Enlisted soldier, even as a Colonel, my career would have ended that minute. I hope today's Army doesn't permit that kind of behavior. And I hope other veterans here will endorse that view.
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    Apr 23, 2012 8:49 PM GMT
    Glad she isn't going to just take the abuse. Now that DADT has been repealed, a few examples need to be set to get everyone in-line.
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    Apr 23, 2012 8:51 PM GMT
    intensity69 saidGlad she isn't going to just take the abuse. Now that DADT has been repealed, a few examples need to be set to get everyone in-line.
    And they need to nailed HARD!
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    Apr 23, 2012 8:58 PM GMT
    He is in SO much shit.
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    Apr 23, 2012 9:03 PM GMT
    TropicalMark said
    intensity69 saidGlad she isn't going to just take the abuse. Now that DADT has been repealed, a few examples need to be set to get everyone in-line.
    And they need to nailed HARD!
    Ooh, someone's all riled up!
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    Apr 23, 2012 9:04 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidHe is in SO much shit.

    Yeah, when he physically shoved her across the dance floor, if that report is correct, his career ended. Technically he could even be looking at Leavenworth, but senior Officers are always given the opportunity to resign first. I don't agree with it, but it's the way the system works, makes the Army look better.
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    Apr 23, 2012 9:15 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    Ex_Mil8 saidHe is in SO much shit.

    Yeah, when he physically shoved her across the dance floor, if that report is correct, his career ended. Technically he could even be looking at Leavenworth, but senior Officers are always given the opportunity to resign first. I don't agree with it, but it's the way the system works, makes the Army look better.


    Even if he resigns, he would feel like shit for losing a position like that...
  • fitartistsf

    Posts: 638

    Apr 23, 2012 9:22 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    TropicalMark saidI applaud and fully support her actions!

    Agree. I'm not sure what kind of "ball" this was, but there is a kind of formal military event for Officers called a "dining in". No civilians may be present. The rules are very strict, and there is a "President of the Mess" and various other official positions. One of which is "Mr. Vice," the most junior Officer present, who assigns penalties for breaches of the rules.

    It's also a tradition, though increasingly frowned upon, of getting totally drunk. And you can insult other Officers, even superiors. Though it's understood the insults are meant to be funny, not mean, or you may see your career evaporate.

    So I wonder what exactly this ball was. But I suspect the commander is having morning-after remorse, the alcohol effects abated. Though frankly, I hope he gets fried.

    If I had ever physically struck one of my Officers, or an Enlisted soldier, even as a Colonel, my career would have ended that minute. I hope today's Army doesn't permit that kind of behavior. And I hope other veterans here will endorse that view.



    It' quite easily could have been a birthday ball. Being ex-Navy, I know the Navy has one, the Marine Corps has one. And I believe the Army refers to their birthday soiree, as a ball as well.
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    Apr 23, 2012 9:29 PM GMT
    fitartistsf saidIt' quite easily could have been a birthday ball. Being ex-Navy, I know the Navy has one, the Marine Corps has one. And I believe the Army refers to their birthday soiree, as a ball as well.

    That's true, and balls are held for many reasons. I attended one when I completed my Officer Advanced Course (AOC), and Command & General Staff College (C&GSC). But you still don't push your subordinates across the dance floor, no matter how allegedly provoked, if that incident was witnessed & true. It will be interesting to see how the Army handles this.
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    Apr 23, 2012 9:30 PM GMT
    The Huffington Post article gives much better details: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aj-walkley/command-sergeant-major-as_b_1435444.html?

    The squadron commander didn't do the pushing, it was the Command Sergeant Major though the original comment was from the squadron commander, and it was during a Cavalry Squadron Ball.
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    Apr 23, 2012 9:36 PM GMT
    imasrxd saidThe Huffington Post article gives much better details: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aj-walkley/command-sergeant-major-as_b_1435444.html?

    OMG, it was the Enlisted CSM who pushed the Captain? That's a chargeable offense if true. Enlisted who lay a hand on a Commissioned Officer can practically be shot, at least in wartime.

    A Command Sergeant Major (CSM/E-9) is the highest enlisted rank, and I'm sure every attempt will be made to protect him from what he's done, if true. Again, I look forward to seeing how this moves ahead.

    An Enlisted assault on an Officer simply can't be overlooked. Even the slap on the face of an Enlisted soldier by 3-Star Lt. General Patton resulted in his removal from command during WWII. To save this CSM, if these reports are correct, there's gonna have to be some rationalization that his shove really wasn't a physical assault, as if it never happened.
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    Apr 23, 2012 9:45 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    That's true, and balls are held for many reasons.

    Indeed they are.
    th_snicker.gif

    But seriously; when the UK armed forces lifted the ban on gay people serving, commanding officers were issued with guidance on, amongst other things, same sex couples attending official/social functions. The guidance was basically to treat same sex couples no differently from heterosexual couples. Simple really. I am sure the US armed forces must have been issued with similar guidance before the lifting of DADT.
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    Apr 23, 2012 9:49 PM GMT
    CSM or squadron commander obviously had a few drinks under his belt at the time.....icon_eek.gif
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    Apr 23, 2012 10:34 PM GMT
    I hope he gets punished to the fullest extent. I hope we here more about his punishment as the story develops.
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    Apr 23, 2012 11:20 PM GMT
    If he's forced to retire, I wonder if he'll get his 15 minutes of fame on the conservative talk show circuit.

    I can just see him on the 700 Club, Savage, Fox etc. licking his wounds, crying about the downfall of America, and then asking for a handout.
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    Apr 24, 2012 1:11 AM GMT
    White4DarkerFL saidIf he's forced to retire, I wonder if he'll get his 15 minutes of fame on the conservative talk show circuit.

    I can just see him on the 700 Club, Savage, Fox etc. licking his wounds, crying about the downfall of America, and then asking for a handout.

    At the very least. He'll likely become a regular contributor.
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    Apr 24, 2012 1:34 AM GMT
    Her being gay is a part of the story. A man doesn't treat a woman like that and certainly wouldn't put his fucking hands on her. Only a boy would act like that. I'm glad she's pressing charges, but it would've been great if she used a bottle across his skull.
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    Apr 24, 2012 1:41 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    fitartistsf saidIt' quite easily could have been a birthday ball. Being ex-Navy, I know the Navy has one, the Marine Corps has one. And I believe the Army refers to their birthday soiree, as a ball as well.

    That's true, and balls are held for many reasons. I attended one when I completed my Officer Advanced Course (AOC), and Command & General Staff College (C&GSC). But you still don't push your subordinates across the dance floor, no matter how allegedly provoked, if that incident was witnessed & true. It will be interesting to see how the Army handles this.



    Tee hee! You said, "balls are held"!
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    Apr 24, 2012 1:45 AM GMT
    "....the Squadron Commander called her girlfriend the following day to apologize and let her know "that he accepts us as being gay and it in no way changes how he feels about us as officers," she says he continued to assert that "the incident with my CSM and me was a misunderstanding and that I took it the wrong way."

    Then what was his excuse for pushing her? Yeah, nice try. This idiot deserves whatever happens to him.