Austerity Isn’t Working

  • tokugawa

    Posts: 945

    Apr 27, 2012 3:24 PM GMT
    Death of a Fairy Tale
    By PAUL KRUGMAN
    Published: April 26, 2012

    ... something has changed in the past few weeks.Several events:

    - the collapse of the Dutch government over proposed austerity measures,

    - the strong showing of the vaguely anti-austerity François Hollande in the first round of France’s presidential election, and

    - an economic report showing that Britain is doing worse in the current slump than it did in the 1930s

    seem to have finally broken through the wall of denial. Suddenly, everyone is admitting that austerity isn’t working. ...

    full article: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/27/opinion/krugman-death-of-a-fairy-tale.html?_r=1&hp
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2603

    Apr 27, 2012 7:41 PM GMT
    An interesting and timely article.

    I heard today unemployment has reached 25% in Spain. That`s comparable to the UK in the depths of the Great Depression circa 1933/4/5.

    The government here, a total 'austerian', is, I believe, driven by ideology, not reason or pragmatism. The deficit is simply the newest reason why we need to cut back the state, public spending and services, and privatize the lot! If pushed, they could probably come up with several more reasons for the above!

    They have tried the argument about how too big a state can harm a people`s 'morality'.

    Sadly, I agree with Paul Krugman. This news will be falling on deaf ears.There`ll be no willing change here unless something really catastrophic happens.
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    Apr 27, 2012 7:52 PM GMT
    To which one must ask when it comes to the UK, what austerity? Spending ROSE 5% last year:

    http://news.investors.com/article/588254/201110170805/the-austerity-myth-federal-spending-up-5-this-year.htm?p=full

    Once again Paul Krugman is wrong - at least when it comes to the UK. When it comes to Spain, where pray tell are they planning to find bond investors willing to finance their "stimulus"?

    If there's anything that's clear, it's stimulus that has failed to live up to expectations.

    If you want a more balanced perspective though biased in its near consistent agreement with those like Krugman - the Economist points out that the evidence on "austerity" in Britain is unclear - and that in fact the changes made help to correct these changes though they could have gone through with them slower:

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2012/04/fiscal-policy?fsrc=gn_ep
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    Apr 27, 2012 8:51 PM GMT
    riddler78 saidTo which one must ask when it comes to the UK, what austerity? Spending ROSE 5% last year:

    http://news.investors.com/article/588254/201110170805/the-austerity-myth-federal-spending-up-5-this-year.htm?p=full

    Once again Paul Krugman is wrong - at least when it comes to the UK. When it comes to Spain, where pray tell are they planning to find bond investors willing to finance their "stimulus"?

    If there's anything that's clear, it's stimulus that has failed to live up to expectations.

    If you want a more balanced perspective though biased in its near consistent agreement with those like Krugman - the Economist points out that the evidence on "austerity" in Britain is unclear - and that in fact the changes made help to correct these changes though they could have gone through with them slower:

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2012/04/fiscal-policy?fsrc=gn_ep






    Bullshit

    Starting in 2010 the conservatives in the U.K. forced through deep spending cuts.
    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/1020/Britain-s-budget-cuts-outline-radical-path-toward-smaller-government

    Today we can see what the result of those austerity measures is.
    Britain has slipped into a double dip recession.

    Starting in 2009 President Obama injected public spending into the economy with tax cuts and other stimulus measures.

    Today we can see what the result of those stimulus measures is.
    The U.S. economy has seen slow steady economic growth and job creation.

    The facts are clear.

    The economic policies of President Obama have worked to keep the U.S. economy from slipping into a double dip recession.

    The conservative austerity policies in the U.K. have worsened their economic woes and brought on a painful double dip recession.

    We must avoid allowing Mitt Romney and the Repubs to implement the harsh austerity measures that they advocate here in the U.S.

    We don't want our country to follow the foolish and wrong-headed path taken by the right-wingers in Britain.
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    Apr 27, 2012 8:54 PM GMT
    Austerity measures are not enacted to "work" or result in something positive for a country, they are usually just the result of no recourse.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 27, 2012 9:02 PM GMT
    There are degrees of austerity that can be debated. But the left continually denies what brought the countries to where they are today.
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    Apr 27, 2012 9:11 PM GMT
    JPtheBITCH said
    socalfitness saidThere are degrees of austerity that can be debated. But the left continually denies what brought the countries to where they are today.

    The *left* denies what decades of history repeatedly demonstrate.


    Correction made you dumbass icon_lol.gif
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    Apr 27, 2012 9:17 PM GMT
    But nor does being flippant and irresponsible; oh thats what they want then let them have it. Oh there should be no borders let people just move were they want to live. Oh they see themselves as that so thats whats they are; blah, blah, blah.

    One of the things that is doing poor ol' Mother England in, is the relenting stream of illegal immigrants, and the European Human Rights courts that do not allow them to just kick people out, not even convicted terrorists.

    Mother England has been so kind and giving, that it's being sucked dry, thus it does need to become tough, just to survive; and Oz will go the same way too, if we do not put our foot down now!
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    Apr 27, 2012 9:18 PM GMT
    RickRick91 saidBullshit

    Starting in 2010 the conservatives in the U.K. forced through deep spending cuts.
    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/1020/Britain-s-budget-cuts-outline-radical-path-toward-smaller-government

    Today we can see what the result of those austerity measures is.
    Britain has slipped into a double dip recession.

    Starting in 2009 President Obama injected public spending into the economy with tax cuts and other stimulus measures.

    Today we can see what the result of those stimulus measures is.
    The U.S. economy has seen slow steady economic growth and job creation.

    The facts are clear.

    The economic policies of President Obama have worked to keep the U.S. economy from slipping into a double dip recession.

    The conservative austerity policies in the U.K. have worsened their economic woes and brought on a painful double dip recession.

    We must avoid allowing Mitt Romney and the Repubs to implement the harsh austerity measures that they advocate here in the U.S.

    We don't want our country to follow the foolish and wrong-headed path taken by the right-wingers in Britain.


    Too bad the actual results of the budget are quite a bit different when it comes to spending.

    As for the other stimulus plan - look how it worked out - and, the CBO now projects the costs to outweigh any benefits because of increased interest rates as a result of deficits:

    unemployment-rate-obama-stimulus.jpg
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    Apr 27, 2012 10:31 PM GMT
    JPtheBITCH said
    mocktwinkie saidAusterity measures are not enacted to "work" or result in something positive for a country, they are usually just the result of no recourse.

    That is the single dumbest thing you've ever said. Evar.
    But it reveals the mindset of the ideologue.
    Governments don't---well, shouldn't---enact measures simply because they conform to an ideology, especially one as discredited as the Austrian school.

    Unfortunately, sometimes the idiots that get elected do exactly that. Then when confronted with their inevitable failure, they either stick their fingers in their ears and chant "la la la la la I can't hear you" or else they double down on their stupid ideas (see "Republican Party, response to being thrashed in 2006 and 2008").


    Has nothing to do with an ideology, it has to do with being faced with a situation in which only one available direction (severe cuts/ tax increases) will more or less avoid total collapse of a reasonable working system. Sort of similar to: when you reach bottom, the only way you can go is up.

    As has been stated, there are many degrees of "austerity" but when the term "austerity" is used it usually means there are dire fiscal circumstances like what Greece has been facing, otherwise it's referred to as "cuts".
  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Apr 27, 2012 11:43 PM GMT
    There is always an alternative to austerity. That alternative is to stop lending those countries who have implemented austerity money. The problem will quickly solve itself and the citizenry will understand that austerity is much preferred.
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    Apr 28, 2012 1:06 AM GMT
    JPtheBITCH said
    riddler78 said
    JPtheBITCH said
    socalfitness saidThere are degrees of austerity that can be debated. But the left continually denies what brought the countries to where they are today.

    The *left* denies what decades of history repeatedly demonstrate.


    Correction made you dumbass icon_lol.gif

    There are infinite lulz to be had watching you call anyone stupid. There isn't a creature---human or animal---that isn't smarter than you.

    But I wouldn't dream of trying to shut you up. The entertainment is priceless, And with any luck, endless.


    Lol - the real entertainment is watching you pass off your stupidity as wisdom and as you constantly get debunked and ridiculed for getting your facts wrong.

    So write away dumbass icon_lol.gif
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Apr 28, 2012 1:22 AM GMT
    The problem is that austerity might SEEM like an answer
    where you rob Peter to pay Paul

    But the reality is that we've had a nega shift on the monetary distribution in this country on an astounding scale and its affecting the world economy
    ..... and it's affecting the way we govern

    Someone said it best 95 years ago


    Debs1-480x633.jpg
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Apr 28, 2012 1:24 AM GMT
    Without bringing back our wealth distribution to levels before the great republican train robbery? .... we are not going to see much economic growth and headway with the middle class
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    Apr 28, 2012 1:34 AM GMT
    GQjock saidWithout bringing back our wealth distribution to levels before the great republican train robbery? .... we are not going to see much economic growth and headway with the middle class


    Lol - you have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about do you? To you wealth creation comes and is initiated by government and completely divorced from well, wealth creation and growing the pie,
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Apr 28, 2012 1:57 AM GMT
    socalfitness deleted his response? I guess he realized he would be including southbeach.

    icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 28, 2012 11:06 AM GMT
    socalfitness saidThere are degrees of austerity that can be debated. But the left continually denies what brought the countries to where they are today.


    I think you will find there is almost universal agreement that the bursting of the US housing bubble caused or triggered this crisis. Of course these countries must carry their own share of the responsibility, but it was the US that cheer led the world into recession.
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    Apr 28, 2012 1:34 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said
    socalfitness saidThere are degrees of austerity that can be debated. But the left continually denies what brought the countries to where they are today.


    I think you will find there is almost universal agreement that the bursting of the US housing bubble caused or triggered this crisis. Of course these countries must carry their own share of the responsibility, but it was the US that cheer led the world into recession.


    The bubble bursting precipitated the crisis but it didn't create the systemic risk that was then socialized after all the profits were privatized.
  • tokugawa

    Posts: 945

    Apr 30, 2012 2:49 PM GMT
    Wasting Our Minds
    By PAUL KRUGMAN, New York Times columnist
    Published: April 29, 2012

    ...
    What the young need most of all, then, is a better job market. People like Mr. Romney claim that they have the recipe for job creation: slash taxes on corporations and the rich, slash spending on public services and the poor. But we now have plenty of evidence on how these policies actually work in a depressed economy — and they clearly destroy jobs rather than create them.
    ...
    source: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/30/opinion/krugman-wasting-our-minds.html?hp
  • tokugawa

    Posts: 945

    Apr 30, 2012 3:01 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    GQjock saidWithout bringing back our wealth distribution to levels before the great republican train robbery? .... we are not going to see much economic growth and headway with the middle class

    Lol - you have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about do you?

    riddler78 uses ad hominem attacks.

    riddler78 saidTo you wealth creation comes and is initiated by government and completely divorced from well, wealth creation and growing the pie,

    riddler78 puts words into other people's mouths.

    True statement: If riddler78's economic policies are adopted at the national level, we are not going to see much economic growth and headway with the middle class.

  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Apr 30, 2012 4:49 PM GMT
    Sorry bubs .....

    But you're seeing your economic policy at work right now
    England has slipped into a double dip recession and so has Spain's

    Austerrity measures in an economic crisis DO NOT WORK

    During the first quarter here in America we have seen improvement but it was at a lower level
    We saw. 2.2 gain
    Why the slowdown BECAUSE WE SAW THE RESULT OF GOVERNMENT CUTS
    The private sector had a growth of 3.5 well above the total growth with governmental input factored in

    It's economy 101 boys ..... You don't cut government during an economic downturn
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Apr 30, 2012 4:52 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    GQjock saidWithout bringing back our wealth distribution to levels before the great republican train robbery? .... we are not going to see much economic growth and headway with the middle class


    Lol - you have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about do you? To you wealth creation comes and is initiated by government and completely divorced from well, wealth creation and growing the pie,


    I never said that Rid......

    Wealth does not come from Goverment
    But Government must sometimes be the stop gap from having a small percentage hoard it all

    This occurred during the early part of the twentieth century with Theodore Roosevelt's Presidency and we are repeating the very same abuses right now
  • tokugawa

    Posts: 945

    Apr 30, 2012 9:55 PM GMT
    riddler78 saidAs for the other stimulus plan - look how it worked out - and, the CBO now projects the costs to outweigh any benefits because of increased interest rates as a result of deficits ...


    Your information and graph are out of date. Instead of the 9.1% unemployment shown on your graph, the March, 2012 rate is 8.2%, according to the BLS, a difference of 10%. This is an indication that Obama's policies are working.

    Increased interest rates? Interest rates are still close to historic lows. Short term treasuries sell at 0.05% interest. Mortgage rates are the lowest they have been in a very, very long time.