Some facts about Romney, the auto industry, and bankruptcy

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 27, 2012 9:07 PM GMT
    Some truly clueless, ignorant things have been written about Romney and the auto bailouts, and bankruptcy.

    Bottom line - Romney favored a managed bankruptcy with protections afforded the creditors by Chapter 11. Obama bypassed Chapter 11 to favor the politically connected UAW ahead of other investors, who Obama derisively called "speculators", as if investing is somehow bad.

    Who got screwed? Among those were retired Indiana teachers and cops. Obama didn't give a damn about these retirees because their union was not as politically connected as the UAW union bosses. Hypocrisy and BS to the max.

    Some facts if anyone actually cares:

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    Some people are really ignorant and should be embarrassed by what they write. Romney's preference for auto industry bankruptcy did not mean in any way he wanted them to go out of business. Even if you are clueless about what the different forms of bankruptcy are, anyone aware of the news for the past several years would understand the airlines went through bankruptcy proceedings and emerged healthier in some cases.

    Bankruptcy Chapter 7 involves liquidation, which is not what Romney proposed. Chapter 11 involves reorganization, which has benefitted many companies. The differences are discussed here: http://www.uscourts.gov/FederalCourts/Bankruptcy/BankruptcyBasics.aspx

    Read about the Democrat lies about Romney's position which folks here eat up like lap dogs:
    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/02/obamas_auto_industry_lies_about_romney.html

    Both agreed on a "managed bankruptcy," meaning the government would maintain financial lines of credit, honoring contracts in bankruptcy so that suppliers would keep operating. "A managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs," Romney wrote in a 2008 New York Times op-ed that has been willfully distorted by Obama & Media.
    ...
    Obama took GM and Chrysler into Chapter 363 - a creative interpretation of the bankruptcy code that sought to avoid the traditional Chapter 11 process so that the White House could dictate terms to favor preferred constituencies like Big Labor. The result was thuggish tactics (as reported by this scribe and largely ignored by Obama's homer media) that threatened bondholders and shorted pension investors. While Chapter 363 bankruptcy allowed the automakers to emerge quickly from bankruptcy, it was hugely controversial in the legal community.

    The government is "end-running the Chapter 11 process" by structuring the bankruptcies as sales, bankruptcy expert and UCLA Law Professor Lynn LoPucki told CFO magazine in June, 2009. Chapter 363 allowed both companies to get rid of liabilities without getting approval from their creditors. "It's improper, because creditors are not getting the legal procedure allowed to them by Congress," said LoPucki, who also teaches at Harvard, and who I sourced repeatedly during the Detroit bankruptcies.

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    http://www.correntewire.com/indiana_pension_funds_sue_chrysler_bailouts_go_politically_wired_im_shocked
    In several motions with the Chrysler docket earlier, the Indiana State Teachers Retirement Fund, Indiana State Police Pension Trust, and Indiana Major Movers Construction Fund, fiduciaries for "approximately 100,000 civil servants, including police officers, school teachers and their families" have objected to the 363 sale, and demand Judge Gonzalez should block the sale, claiming "the plan is illegal and tramples their rights.
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    Apr 27, 2012 9:32 PM GMT
    The left doesn't understand creative destruction. The irony is that while there are some conservatives who fear social change, they can't handle economic change... they want to keep pushing back the clock - less competition, bigger government, etc.
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    Apr 27, 2012 10:43 PM GMT
    riddler78 saidThe left doesn't understand creative destruction. The irony is that while there are some conservatives who fear social change, they can't handle economic change... they want to keep pushing back the clock - less competition, bigger government, etc.

    This was really a rotten deal for union retirees who were not so lucky to be part of the UAW. I suspect in coming months we will hear directly from teachers and cops who were affected so the illusion that the Administration cares about union workers versus union bosses will be thoroughly debunked.
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    May 08, 2012 5:35 PM GMT
    Bumping in case anyone wants to understand the facts in response to some inaccurate material.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 08, 2012 5:48 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidBumping in case anyone wants to understand the propaganda the Romney campaign devised in response to some inconvenient truths.


    Fixed!
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    May 08, 2012 6:25 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness saidBumping in case anyone wants to understand the propaganda the Romney campaign devised in response to some inconvenient truths.


    Fixed!

    His actual quotes as well as info about the lawsuit from the Indiana Public employee union is hardly propaganda, except to you, in your quest to label an ever increasing number of sources as lies whenever they don't fit your positions.
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    May 08, 2012 7:24 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness saidBumping in case anyone wants to understand the propaganda the Romney campaign devised in response to some inconvenient truths.


    Fixed!

    His actual quotes as well as info about the lawsuit from the Indiana Public employee union is hardly propaganda, except to you, in your quest to label an ever increasing number of sources as lies whenever they don't fit your positions.


    Not really. Mittens said Detroit should fail. He should stick with that instead of adding to his endless list of flip-flops and shifting positions.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 08, 2012 7:29 PM GMT
    Another Etch A Sketch moment for Mitt!
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    May 08, 2012 8:04 PM GMT
    Isn't that what the Indians used to do when the cowboys were after them?

    Scratch out your footprints with some tree branches ?

    icon_biggrin.gif
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    May 08, 2012 8:22 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness saidBumping in case anyone wants to understand the propaganda the Romney campaign devised in response to some inconvenient truths.


    Fixed!

    His actual quotes as well as info about the lawsuit from the Indiana Public employee union is hardly propaganda, except to you, in your quest to label an ever increasing number of sources as lies whenever they don't fit your positions.


    Not really. Mittens said Detroit should fail. He should stick with that instead of adding to his endless list of flip-flops and shifting positions.

    Well I was about to take you to task for mixing up bankruptcy with failure, which I thought willful given the OP explains the bankruptcy options. But in your defense, I see you were repeating reports from NBC which deliberately misrepresented. If there is any doubt that NBC is a different animal than MSNBC, this should put it to rest. False quoting and editing 911 tapes is one thing that outfit does well.

    If you are interested in the truth, which I highly doubt, reread the OP and look at the links on the chapters on bankruptcy law.

    Next read the op ed from Romney in the New York times from 2008 that has been deliberately misconstrued. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=1

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-drennen/2012/02/16/nbc-romney-scrambles-explain-why-he-wanted-let-auto-companies-fail
    Leading off Wednesday's NBC Nightly News, anchor Brian Williams spun hard for the Obama administration as he distorted Mitt Romney's opposition to the government bailout of the auto industry: "The fight for Michigan as Mitt Romney scrambles to explain to the voters in his home state why he thought the auto industry should be allowed to fail."

    Having ignored the fact that Romney called for a "managed bankruptcy" of General Motors and Chrysler in order for them to reorganize and become healthier companies, Williams announced to viewers: "Mitt Romney's in a tough spot....he's working hard to explain why he was against the government's auto industry bailouts. That doesn't go over well in the state we associate with Detroit and American cars."

    In the report that followed, correspondent Peter Alexander continued to portray Romney as a foe to the auto makers: "And at a time when the American auto industry is getting back on its feet, as portrayed in this Super Bowl ad...and evidenced by this General Motors plant in Flint adding a third shift last summer, Romney recently renewed his opposition to the Obama administration's auto bailout."
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 08, 2012 8:36 PM GMT
    Mitt Romney said, "Let Detroit go bankrupt."
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 08, 2012 8:38 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness saidBumping in case anyone wants to understand the propaganda the Romney campaign devised in response to some inconvenient truths.


    Fixed!

    His actual quotes as well as info about the lawsuit from the Indiana Public employee union is hardly propaganda, except to you, in your quest to label an ever increasing number of sources as lies whenever they don't fit your positions.


    Not really. Mittens said Detroit should fail. He should stick with that instead of adding to his endless list of flip-flops and shifting positions.

    Well I was about to take you to task for mixing up bankruptcy with failure, which I thought willful given the OP explains the bankruptcy options. But in your defense, I see you were repeating reports from NBC which deliberately misrepresented. If there is any doubt that NBC is a different animal than MSNBC, this should put it to rest. False quoting and editing 911 tapes is one thing that outfit does well.

    If you are interested in the truth, which I highly doubt, reread the OP and look at the links on the chapters on bankruptcy law.

    Next read the op ed from Romney in the New York times from 2008 that has been deliberately misconstrued. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=1

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-drennen/2012/02/16/nbc-romney-scrambles-explain-why-he-wanted-let-auto-companies-fail
    Leading off Wednesday's NBC Nightly News, anchor Brian Williams spun hard for the Obama administration as he distorted Mitt Romney's opposition to the government bailout of the auto industry: "The fight for Michigan as Mitt Romney scrambles to explain to the voters in his home state why he thought the auto industry should be allowed to fail."

    Having ignored the fact that Romney called for a "managed bankruptcy" of General Motors and Chrysler in order for them to reorganize and become healthier companies, Williams announced to viewers: "Mitt Romney's in a tough spot....he's working hard to explain why he was against the government's auto industry bailouts. That doesn't go over well in the state we associate with Detroit and American cars."

    In the report that followed, correspondent Peter Alexander continued to portray Romney as a foe to the auto makers: "And at a time when the American auto industry is getting back on its feet, as portrayed in this Super Bowl ad...and evidenced by this General Motors plant in Flint adding a third shift last summer, Romney recently renewed his opposition to the Obama administration's auto bailout."


    Romney opposed the bailout. And then governor of Michigan Jennifer Granholm said:

    "Romney too has Michigan heritage, but rather than embrace it, he advocated to "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt." To pander to a national audience, he advocated allowing the private sector to step in as the debtor-in-possession of the Detroit automakers, when he knows very well that in the midst of the crisis, no private sector player was willing to step up. Government was the actor of last resort, and without that intervention, Michigan would have been devastated."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennifer-m-granholm/look-at-the-facts-romneys_b_1247869.html

    And given Romney's profligate lying why would we believe any "restatement of position."

    Perhaps you enjoy being lied to be an empty suit, but the rest of us don't.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    May 08, 2012 8:41 PM GMT
    catfish5 saidMitt Romney said, "Let Detroit go bankrupt."



    Yes, he did, kind of like they did with the airline industry years ago. Of course, people like yourself who only see things in black & white with no real understanding of business and economics can't comprehend that a forced "bankruptcy" is not necessarily such a bad thing. It forces a company to restructure. These wake-up calls can actually be a stepping stone toward saving a company. Those companies who are either unable or unwilling to restructure should go out of business. No company should be too big to fail.
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    May 08, 2012 8:42 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    catfish5 saidMitt Romney said, "Let Detroit go bankrupt."



    Yes, he did, kind of like they did with the airline industry. Of course, people like yourself who only see things in black & white with no real understanding of business and economics can't comprehend that a forced "bankruptcy" is not necessarily such a bad thing. It forces a company to restructure. These wake-up calls can actually be a stepping stone toward saving a company. Those companies who are either unable or unwilling to restructure should go out of business. No company should be too big to fail.


    Please read Granholm above for an education on your misstatements. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    May 08, 2012 8:47 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    Please read Granholm above for an education on your misstatements. icon_rolleyes.gif


    Reading a biased article (in the HUFFINGTON POST no less) by a former Democrat Governor of Michigan is suppose to educate me? Seriously? Nice try.
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    May 08, 2012 8:53 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Christian73 said
    Please read Granholm above for an education on your misstatements. icon_rolleyes.gif


    Reading a biased article (in the HUFFINGTON POST no less) by a former Democrat Governor of Michigan is suppose to educate me? Seriously? Nice try.


    No. By all means, believe the chronic liar and homophobe Mitt Romney. It's not like Granholm was the governor or anything. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    May 08, 2012 8:56 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Christian73 said
    Please read Granholm above for an education on your misstatements. icon_rolleyes.gif


    Reading a biased article (in the HUFFINGTON POST no less) by a former Democrat Governor of Michigan is suppose to educate me? Seriously? Nice try.

    Seeing them flail this bad now, one can only wonder what the next few months will bring. They might have to wear bibs to prevent their foaming at the mouth from damaging their keyboards. icon_lol.gif
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    May 08, 2012 8:59 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Seeing them flail this bad now, one can only wonder what the next few months will bring. They might have to wear bibs to prevent their foaming at the mouth from damaging their keyboards. icon_lol.gif



    LOL -- like a bunch of rabid dogs I tell ya icon_lol.gif


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    May 08, 2012 9:06 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    socalfitness said
    Seeing them flail this bad now, one can only wonder what the next few months will bring. They might have to wear bibs to prevent their foaming at the mouth from damaging their keyboards. icon_lol.gif



    LOL -- like a bunch of rabid dogs I tell ya icon_lol.gif

    Hehe. Big question - Why did Obama tell the retired Indiana teachers and cops, PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNION MEMBERS, to go to hell as he sought a bankruptcy procedure to screw their pension plan in favor of the UAW, which provides more money to the Democrats? Do you think we might see some ads about a real retired teacher, a grandmother in a wheelchair, asking why Obama did this to her, given she always supported his party falsely believing they really cared about her? The the real answer is the Democratic machine really cares about union bosses, not union workers. The dirty little secret will soon be not such a secret. icon_wink.gif